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Perfect Blue Question




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Dranxis



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 591
Location: Ohtori Academy
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:21 pm Reply with quote
Alright, so I just finished watching Perfect Blue, and I'm a little confused by the ending. spoiler[So, Rumi was the one trying to kill Mima, right? Was this out of jealousy or something? Was she also the one who killed the photographer (or was that Mima herself?)] I know the movie is supposed to make you confused as to what is real and not, but if anyone could clear up these questions for me before I watch it again it'd be really helpful... Anime smallmouth
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:58 am Reply with quote
As near as I can tell, spoiler[it was Rumi all along, and she was just shown as Mima in the one killing perhaps because she was dressing as Mima or just because Satoshi Kon, the writer and director, wanted to mess with your head. And she did what she did out of jealousy over Mima taking on the kind of career she once had herself, one which she was too old for anymore.]

Hope this helps. Also notice that spoiler[the only time in the movie where there's a clear sky is at the end, after Mima's dramatic confrontation with Rumi.] That's partly where the title, which has a double-meaning, comes from.
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Dranxis



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 591
Location: Ohtori Academy
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:39 am Reply with quote
Ah, thank you. spoiler[Rumi being the "culprit" makes alot of sense if you think about it. ] I plan to watch the movie again in Japanese tonight and I'll look out for all the clues that lead up to that twist.
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Deltakiral



Joined: 07 Oct 2004
Posts: 3338
Location: Glendora, CA (Avatar Hei from Darker than BLACK)
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:09 pm Reply with quote
Dranxis wrote:
Ah, thank you. spoiler[Rumi being the "culprit" makes alot of sense if you think about it. ] I plan to watch the movie again in Japanese tonight and I'll look out for all the clues that lead up to that twist.

Yes that what I thought spoiler[that Rumi was behind all of, although it took me about three-four times to come to that. ]I really love this movie, and I would recommend for so many more people, but do to the graphic content it a little hard for me to do that. Anyone else ever feel like with this title? You know telling someone how great it is and then you remember the spoiler[sex] scene and you wonder if it ok to show your friends? Or more importantly will your friends think your some sort of hentai freak.

Anyways back on track, you know what key?
key wrote:
spoiler[the only time in the movie where there's a clear sky is at the end, after Mima's dramatic confrontation with Rumi]
I didn't even think of that, that really makes me want to rewatch this series now to see if there anything else I missed.
key wrote:
spoiler[it was Rumi all along, and she was just shown as Mima in the one killing perhaps because she was dressing as Mima or just because Satoshi Kon, the writer and director, wanted to mess with your head.]

So then wait at what time is spoiler[Mimi actually herself, all the scene except for any dealing with the killing. What about the dramatic finish, where Mimi has to fight for her life?]

Augh this movie makes your head spin, but I like it. I am trying to get into Mind Game since it has been recommended to me, but I am having trouble starting it. Does it become like perfect blue, meaning does it have the same feel to it?
Till next time,

Delta Kiral
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Dargonxtc



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 4463
Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:39 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
spoiler[and she was just shown as Mima in the one killing perhaps because she was dressing as Mima or just because Satoshi Kon, the writer and director, wanted to mess with your head.]
I think that spoiler[She dressed like her because she idolized her so much she wanted to be her, least thats what I got from the scene. I mean she was the one always trying to protect her image, you can tell that when something bad happened to Mima, it affected Rumi deeply.]
Deltakiral wrote:
I really love this movie, and I would recommend for so many more people, but do to the graphic content it a little hard for me to do that. Anyone else ever feel like with this title?
Nope, I simply warn anyone that there will be graphic content in the film. A graphic scene is not going to stop me from recommending a masterpiece.
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Deltakiral



Joined: 07 Oct 2004
Posts: 3338
Location: Glendora, CA (Avatar Hei from Darker than BLACK)
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:59 pm Reply with quote
Dargonxtc wrote:
I think that spoiler[She dressed like her because she idolized her so much she wanted to be her, least thats what I got from the scene. I mean she was the one always trying to protect her image, you can tell that when something bad happened to Mima, it affected Rumi deeply.]


Yea I think how I figured out spoiler[Rumi was killing everyone, when you go back and watch all times that Rumi was trying so hard to make Mima stay away from the Television business and to stay a little "girl" by keeping her in the music industry.]


Dargonxtc wrote:
Nope, I simply warn anyone that there will be graphic content in the film. A graphic scene is not going to stop me from recommending a masterpiece.
Yea I get that but when people come back and see how graphic in particular that scene has anyone ever came back to say that they found it tasteless? And Although I agree that spoiler[sex scenes are necessary because of the story, and the emotional struggle and everything else, it does make you think where that line between making your point and an over top sexual scene?] Good stuff thus far, I really want to rewatch this movie to get a feel for some of things discussed thus far.
Till next time,

Delta Kiral
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Dargonxtc



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
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Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:31 pm Reply with quote
Deltakiral wrote:
Yea I get that but when people come back and see how graphic in particular that scene has anyone ever came back to say that they found it tasteless?
A few have said they felt it was over the top, none called it tasteless, but the majority understand why it was shot that way. Also I must recant, I do not recommend this title to kids. What age you say? It depends on how mature you are.
Deltakiral wrote:
And Although I agree that spoiler[sex scenes are necessary because of the story, and the emotional struggle and everything else, it does make you think where that line between making your point and an over top sexual scene?]
Where to start? In my opinion it is a perfect fit for this movie. When you watch this scenespoiler[I bet you felt uncomfortable, a bit sickened, and dare I say dirty. Well if you did, Satoshi Kon is laughing his twisted head off because that is exactly how you are supposed to feel. It is simulated rape, its not even happening, yet it feels real. Genius. Not to mention the facade metaphor that contniues through the whole movie, everyone has a public and private face. It was clearly not a chance to just see some boobies, it was a means to transmit a feeling. I dare say this movie might have turned out for the worse by not having this scene.]I feel the scene is niether over the top, nor insipid, but mature to be sure. This is of course just my opinion, and people can and do disagree with me. But as you can probably tell I love this movie.
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Deltakiral



Joined: 07 Oct 2004
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Location: Glendora, CA (Avatar Hei from Darker than BLACK)
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:07 pm Reply with quote
Dargonxtc wrote:
A few have said they felt it was over the top, none called it tasteless, but the majority understand why it was shot that way. Also I must recant, I do not recommend this title to kids. What age you say? It depends on how mature you are.
No I wouldn't recommend it for kids, I would say someone who is mature enough to handle sexual ideas, since the spoiler[rape ] scene could be so damaging to someone who can't grasp (wow I sound like a crazed mom who wants to censor everything) whats going on. I would say 17 would be a good age for this movie, I say that because it's the same as the rated R titles in US.

Dargonxtc wrote:
In my opinion it is a perfect fit for this movie. When you watch this scene[spoiler]I bet you felt uncomfortable, a bit sickened, and dare I say dirty. Well if you did, Satoshi Kon is laughing his twisted head off because that is exactly how you are supposed to feel.
Exactly yea I know that kinda the feel of the scene, it is a powerful moment.
Dargonxtc wrote:
I feel the scene is niether over the top, nor insipid, but mature to be sure. This is of course just my opinion, and people can and do disagree with me.
I agree that it isn't over the top, I have heard people say that they stop watching at the point but that moment is so vital in the movie that really does help shape the movie the rest of way through, and yes it is mature.

Dargonxtc wrote:
but as you can probably tell I love this movie.
I can see that, you really do like your perfect blue huh? I do really like this movie just out of my top 5.
Till next time,

Delta Kiral
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:50 pm Reply with quote
The film was classified as 18 by the BBFC.
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Cloe
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Joined: 18 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:25 am Reply with quote
I explained my take on Perfect Blue in this older thread. My perspective remains pretty much the same.

Deltakiral wrote:
Augh this movie makes your head spin, but I like it. I am trying to get into Mind Game since it has been recommended to me, but I am having trouble starting it. Does it become like perfect blue, meaning does it have the same feel to it?

Apples and oranges. Where Perfect Blue is a psychological thriller that plays with the viewer's head through oblique storytelling, Mind Game is more an exploration of pure thought and emotion carried out through stylistic animation. Its narrative is fairly straightforward. See this thread for more details.
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Deltakiral



Joined: 07 Oct 2004
Posts: 3338
Location: Glendora, CA (Avatar Hei from Darker than BLACK)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:59 am Reply with quote
Cloe wrote:
Apples and oranges. Where Perfect Blue is a psychological thriller that plays with the viewer's head through oblique storytelling, Mind Game is more an exploration of pure thought and emotion carried out through stylistic animation. Its narrative is fairly straightforward.
Hmm that Kinda what I was afraid of, the animation is kinda a turn off for me. I am having difficulties attempting to get through the opening sequence. I guess Mind Game is going to be one of those titles that sit in my seen some for a while until I get bored of what I am watching. Thanks for the info Cloe very very useful
Till next time,

Delta Kiral
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DKL



Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 1933
Location: California, USA
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:27 am Reply with quote
Woah, yay, Satoshi Kon anime, awesome…

So…

Uhh… I’ll plug in my two cents since it’s too late for me to be watching Monster (as I like using the speakers, since headphones are lame).

Where to start?

spoiler[The neat thing about Rumi’s confusion of identity (actually, the whole movie was about identity confusion, I mean, it was seamlessly integrated into the storytelling, much like how Kon did it with his insight in Paranoia Agent) is that when she thinks she’s Mima, the only time the viewers can actually tell this visually is when you see her either disoriented (a piece of her wig falling off) or shown in a mirror/glass (like the ending); I think it’s supposed to be symbolic… like “the mirror shows the truth” or whatever.

The ending where Mima sees herself, all messed up and dirty and crap, in the glass reminds her of the fact that she is the real Mima and nobody else.

We see Mima during that murder of the smutty photos dude mainly because Rumi thinks she’s “Mima;” since Rumi is under the impression that she’s Mima (she had that damn wig, probably), the viewers should be too; it’s a nice trick. Also, take note of the fact that Rumi actually has the murder weapon used here and in the end (that ice-pick thing).

Actually, Rumi pretty much killed all of the people that were murdered in the series. Me-Mania didn’t do a whole lot other than stalking and trying to preserve the image of the false Mima (which was actually interesting to watch, so don’t disregard his character); not totally sure though, but he probably got that guy from the beginning of the movie who was screwing around at the Cham concert (it was a hit-and-run… Rumi just used that ice-pick thing, so it doesn’t really match-up)

The motivation for Rumi is interesting though: she’s trying to live her life through Mima now since Rumi was a failed pop-idol in the past (who I think was working with Mr. Tadakoro… but I’m not sure). So, when Mima started to divert from the idealized path of a J-Pop idol, Rumi was taking steps to try and fix things, albeit unconsciously.

For example, the Double-Bind writer guy gets owned mainly because it was his idea to write Mima into a rape scene. Tadakoro (am I spelling his name right?) gets his too when he makes some sly comment about how the whole sex thing is regular in Mima’s next acting gigs.

As for scenes where Kon is screwing around… I dunno. For the most part, Kon knows what the hell he wants to say with this specific piece of work (more later) and even then, the actual mystery is rather polished since there’s evidence everywhere (like those scenes where it looks like Mima is doing the same day over and over again… uh… more crap gets shoved onto the screen, so you know it’s not the same day).

I specifically remember a lot of the last scenes though; there’s one where Kon gets you to think that Mima was just making up another personality (as shown by substituted footage of double-bind… er… Lia Sergeant or maybe the ADR editors kinda screwed this part up though since Mima still uses “Mima Kirigoe” even though it’s on the Double-Bind shoot in reality); Kon also gets you to think that the movie ends when Mima defeats the evil Otaku, Me-mania. I think there was more, but yeah, disregard… if anything, it’s fun and adds to the experience.

The actual ending is pretty much face-value of what you see in the last scenes:

Rumi was screwed up in the head, Mima is now a famous actress.

The closing scene where Mima claims to be an actress actually ties everything in the movie together (it’s not as ambiguous and rushed as people might think).

Okay, so, what is Kon trying to say?

While the movie had its fair share of suspenseful awesomeness, there was a surprisingly intelligent message about people’s perception of identity:

In the context of being in the eyes of the public, who defines my identity?

Myself or the media?

Am I a pop-idol or an actress?

Is that person on the web page really me? (er… it isn’t… although, at one point in the movie, Mima starts to believe that the person on the web page is her, but we all know it isn’t… that’s just Me-Mania using info Rumi e-mailed to him)

Oh yes, it’s totally getting clear!

Yeah, the media and mass communication plays an important role in this series (much like Paranoia Agent); just love that competent depiction of modern-day technology.

Anyway, the entire movie, the viewers follow Mima through her indecision; she can’t seem to decide who she would rather be: a pop-idol or an actress?

There are moments though where she outright regrets it (being an actress); anyone remember the scene where she imagined herself celebrating with the other members of Cham over the success of their entry into one of those pop chart things?

Also, the rape scene is a point of interest; while she wasn’t really raped, she was raped metaphorically; er… her idol image got raped. When you think about it, it’s sort of the same thing as actual rape from a psychological standpoint (or, at least, Kon conveyed it this way… I liked that scene where she had a confrontation with an imaginary self, deemed “Virtual Mima”… I think).]


Anyway, all in all… I think that covers most of it.

I’m fairly certain with my interpretation since I got the evidence in order, but that’s no guarantee that I’m totally correct; Kon seems to like to leave things up to viewer interpretation even though I, in my opinion, think that he actually builds a lot of his ideas in a rather logically coherent manner that has an actual point even though its shrouded in ambiguity.

Yeah, I think it’s that trait of coherent ambiguity (?!) that makes Kon’s stuff stand out the most… I mean, it’s creative, if anything.

When does Paprika come out again?
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Deltakiral



Joined: 07 Oct 2004
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Location: Glendora, CA (Avatar Hei from Darker than BLACK)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:17 am Reply with quote
Cloe wrote:
Apples and oranges. Where Perfect Blue is a psychological thriller that plays with the viewer's head through oblique storytelling, Mind Game is more an exploration of pure thought and emotion carried out through stylistic animation.
Ok thanks for the info, I kinda don't want to watch Mind Game now after reading that. Maybe I need to wait sometime and then put in on one day really randomly, perhaps that would work.

DKL wrote:

Also, the rape scene is a point of interest; while she wasn’t really raped, she was raped metaphorically; er… her idol image got raped. When you think about it, it’s sort of the same thing as actual rape from a psychological standpoint (or, at least, Kon conveyed it this way… I liked that scene where she had a confrontation with an imaginary self, deemed “Virtual Mima”… I think).[/spoiler]

That wholespoiler[ rape scene is very powerful and yes beyond what actually going in that scene you have to think about what you mention how this rape scene is literally destroying her image and forces Mima into this whole new world where she won't be that girl next door.]
Btw DKL your post was a very interesting read, and for that you recieve some DAP.
Till next time,

Delta Kiral
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DKL



Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 1933
Location: California, USA
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:48 am Reply with quote
Awesome...

er...

what's DAP?

(I'm pretty sure it's awesome though)

Anyway, I'm looking forward to Paprika... someone should bother Masao Maruyama about it (and the Ninja Scroll movie and the Highlander movie and the Trigun movie) if he attends Otakon this year
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