Forum - View topicKill la Kill (TV).
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16935 |
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Already everyone needs to cool off right now and simmer down. This is getting ridiculous. Animegomaniac, insulting the entirety of fans who watch this show, and Hope, is just rude and not called for. You can dislike the show or aspects of it all you want but blatant blanket judgments against the fans of the show will not be tolerated. Period.
And as for you Akane. You need to simmer down off your hair trigger. You have the bad habit of taking a potentially rude post and bad situation and making it worse with your over the top reactions and hair trigger rage and indignation. You 2, and the rest, need to simmer down with the rage posts (and pics and gifs being posted). Discuss the show and aspects of it all you like but do so civilly. Consider this your warning. |
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ChibiKangaroo
 Posts: 2941 |
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The mere fact that screengrabs from Kill la Kill are deemed "not safe for work" probably proves my point more than anything else.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16935 |
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Or that people are cherry picking certain screen grabs to make their points while ignoring the points of others. Both sides have merit as far as I am concerned personally. Posting tons of images in a thread is also frowned upon period regardless of content FYI. Personal feelings aside you all can either play nice and disagree civilly or don't post on the topic anymore. Simple. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4082 |
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The fans these days still talking about the show positively are picking out the parts they like and ignoring the rest of it is a blanket statement about all its fans? "The entirety of the fans" is a blanket statement while what I did was point out that the people trying to polish off Kill la Kill for a new audience is doing it as both a detriment to the show but other shows as well. If you like Kill la Kill, fine {is that an insult? I say the same things about porn, horror and other less savory elements of entertainment, because I know its ok for people to like bad things for bad reasons} and the trash that it is {they are racist to entire Osaka region for a reason because that's what exploitation does} but ignoring its sexual politics, worse, trying to point out that its sexual politics isn't as bad as some other examples doesn't defend the show; If it's about KlK, let it stand or fall on its own, you shouldn't have to misrepresent other shows to do so. I don't dislike KLK for what it is because I know what it is, cheap trash {Ex: See the Ragyo scene}. Saying things like "it's not sexually exploitive because it's exploitive for both sexes" is ignorant of it means to be exploitive and why it is. I'll add this too: It's ok to be trash, it's ok to like trash {this is why I say "Fine"; But only as long as you admit to it}. But saying things like "maybe they're saying something about what nudity does to human psyche and its embarrassment levels" ignores the reason they're saying and depicting it {or as much of it; There's one of my real complaints, it's just a tease} in the first place. It's like defending its limited animation as a style choice while ignoring it's a very real budget choice. "I like it but there's nothing distasteful about it!"; That's what I'm arguing against. Not fans liking it or disliking it but liking parts of it while disparaging the rest of it. "The fighting's cool but the sexist parts don't exist." or "the sexist parts aren't sexist". They have Mako tied up and they show as much underboob as they can. I mean, underwear, it exists for a reason... Last edited by Animegomaniac on Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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nobahn
 Subscriber Posts: 5120 |
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^
Tell me why I shouldn't place you under moderation. This is not a request. EDIT: Users have been sanctioned for violating the spirit of "Teh Rules," not just the letter of "Teh Rules." Once again: Tell me why I shouldn't place you under moderation. |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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Could you please explain to me what was uncivil about posting screengrabs from Kill la Kill after Akane demanded that I provide pictures or other evidence that Kill la Kill had a lot of fan service? |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23770 |
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The posting of several images in a single post is not considered uncivil - it's frowned upon for bandwidth and eyesore reasons, if I had to guess. It's one of those "unofficial" rules that doesn't seem to be codified anywhere (not in Teh Rules, at least, unless I missed it). I really wish ANN would update the rules so that they are all in one place and written down. I've made that point recently a few times but sadly no one seems to give a shit so we are stuck with these "ad hoc" situations.
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Surrender Artist
 Posts: 3264 Location: Pennsylvania, USA |
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The parts of Kill La Kill that I usually remember and reacted most to are the moments of excitement and emotional catharsis. I certainly recall the sparseness of the costumes and certain unfortunate moments, most especially the nasty implications of how Ryuko first adorns Senketsu*, but those aren’t what appealed to me about it or what I latched on to. I don’t think of Ryuko and Satsuko as sexualized or exploited, but as… uh… well, badass. (Well, sometimes sexy too, but not because of how little the kamui covered) I found the series to do a great deal else other than fanservice well and indeed better than it did fanservice. For me, it takes effort that I have not acquired or cultivated a sense is worth exerting to define the show in those terms.
That the series has been popular with women** should give us pause to reconsider the framework we use for evaluating sexual politics or prejudices as well as the purpose of doing so. What are we trying to do? Win points? Extract validation of our own beliefs from others? It feels like learning or understanding anything interesting and instructive is being subsumed into conflict. If nothing else, I’m just not sure that the argument is about what it appears or claims to be about. *I had a milder reaction to it when I watched it again in English a few weeks ago; I am not sure if this is because it was somehow made less provocative by the adaptation or if I was merely less surprised the second time around. **I concede that this my impression thus anecdotal and potentially inaccurate, but I do feel fairly comfortable with it, although perhaps only in the absence of whatever data would prove or disprove it. |
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Touma
 Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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In my opinion it is covered by the general "be polite" rule, but I agree that it might be beneficial to have a rule that specifically addresses the issue. Posting a wall of images in a discussion thread can be very intrusive and disruptive. I think that a better option would be to post links to the images with a brief description of what each image is. People who want to see the image can click the link. Those who are not interested can easily ignore it. |
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One-Eye
 Posts: 2261 |
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I didn't have a problem with the quantity of images you had. Evidence was demanded and you provided it. We've had plenty of pictures posted in quantity in the past like in anime tournaments. I do not generally find that "uncivil". However, size plus quantity can become an issue and even downright obnoxious especially some posters who are going for overkill. I try to make sure my images are scaled down and/or cropped. (BTW, right now there's someone in the "What did you just buy?" thread in retail that has 2 giant images that are problematic and should be scaled down.) I think if your images had been smaller and some of the more NSFW put behind links it would be fine. Well, I would be fine with it. Sometimes one image is all that is necessary and other times you need more than one. Also its not always efficient to click on several links to see what the poster is referring to, unless of course its NSFW. I would say general rule is less and smaller is better to avoid any issues. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16935 |
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First off Blood just stop. Just stop with the nobody gives a shit pissy attitude. We've already been down this path on that topic. People on the staff do in fact care so just drop it. This is neither the time nor place. Right now given the downtime issues there are far more pressing things for them to worry about than this. Secondly, there will always be situations not covered explicitly in the rules so you need to learn to be more flexible. Now as for the topic of posting images I never said it was uncivil ChibiKangaroo. Your attitude, and other poster's attitudes, were the uncivil parts reported. Blood is right in that it's an eyesore and bandwith issue primarily, and the bandwidth part is for those on older computers or using mobile devices to view the site. Also in my experience most times a plethora of images plastered to a post actually do little to advance the topic of conversation. There are very few times in my 8 years here on the forums where posting tons of images in the manner that was done here have positively impacted the discussion at hand. Rather they more often than not help stir up trouble due to the manner in which they are posted. And no, posting a plethora of images is not a rule per se, it's more of a common curtsey we hope people show primarily due to the eyesore/bandwidth issues. Hence why I simply removed the image tags from your post but left the links there. Posting images that could be considered NSFW however is not allowed. Those need to be linked and not posted with image tags regardless of the topic or thread. While you may not see them as NSFW someone else easily could. If anyone has further questions or discussion regarding the rules there are proper threads for them. Now one user has already been placed on moderation over this and their attitude/posts. I trust no one else needs to be and everyone can play nice from here on out. Play nice and be civil and you can discuss the sexual topics regarding KLK til the cows come home. Last edited by Redbeard 101 on Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4082 |
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Interesting; So it's not willful revision but rather... I don't get it. Maybe my problem is that my mind doesn't work that way and what I remember is what I posted about the show while it was airing which was 1 : Ryuko being forced to wear the kamui was hard to take seriously that way because it was just a piece of clothing and 2 Ragyo. Pretty much everything about her was exploitive, especially her relationship with her daughters which was more about sexual subjugation than.... I can't think of anything beyond that it was about; The series framed her kamui subjugation schemes sexually for both Satsuki and Ryuko. Did it happen or did they take it out like Shaft would do with unwanted backgrounds? How about the later mind scene with her and the nude Ryuko and Nui? Did Ragyo still hang Satsuki nude and torture her? Well, hang implies death so maybe "string up"? What gets mentioned in the quote is I would call "lurid" while what is really vile {villainously so yet still used as a audience turn on; In my first post in this thread I used the word Grindhouse and I'm sticking with it; It's clearly the tone Trigger wanted} is... Ignored? As unrelated note, a *certain recent movie based on a book series that needs to be sold sealed* is also popular with women. I have a general idea of what it's about but no idea why it's popular. But this just goes back to my "trash" post; I'm curious if people can acknowledge why they like it or if they openly close their mind to it. |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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This is the problem in my opinion. It's one of those things left completely up to the whim of whoever decides to address it. Here's the scenario for those who didn't see the context of the conversation: (1) Someone makes a fairly absurd claim (i.e. Kill la Kill doesn't have that much fanservice) (2) I rightly point out that that is absurd (3) That person flies into a righteously indignant rage, demanding that I produce evidence of Kill la Kill fanservice or I will forever be called a liar and poopyhead (4) I proceed to slam my head on desk, and then promptly post 8 images that illustrate my point about Kill la Kill having a lot of fanservice (5) A mod comes and claims I was "cherrypicking" evidence (in other words, accusing me of not producing ENOUGH evidence), yet at the same time is angry about me posting 8 pictures. So, I posted too much but at the same time I didn't post enough. That's just great. And, I was being uncivil for posting evidence that was specifically demanded. Lovely. It seemed to me that 8 was enough to make it clear that there was a lot without going nuts. If the limit should be say 4, then maybe that should be in the rules. We can put in the rules that if someone demands evidence and you post 4 images, then you have automatically proved your point and no one can claim you were cherrypicking or not producing enough evidence. Let's go ahead and enshrine that in the rules. As for the NSFW issue, none of those pictures had any full exposure of private parts. They were highly suggestive screen grabs, though I've seen equally suggestive pictures posted in preview guides and other areas of the site. Again, if people think Kill la Kill is just that sexually explicit in how it portrays its female characters, then I think I proved my larger point. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16935 |
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For starters that person was warned just like you to cool off and watch it. Secondly if I wanted to accuse you of not showing enough evidence I'd simply say that. Perhaps you should not put words in other people's mouths. You picked images to prove one point, yours, but have shown no ability to consider the position of others. Those images could also easily have been seen as NSFW. so don't even try and justify or pretend otherwise. By your own logic if you take them as proving your point about the fanservice in KLK than you are admitting they are NSFW and should not have been posted with image tags but rather as links. So thank you for proving my point. Lastly as has been stated already you were being uncivil by being rude and belligerent. As you are continuing to do so now. And for the record this whole issue was discussed by several mods so it was not at the whims of one person responding to reports. Which is also the whole reason why mods got involved to begin with, because several of you were reported for your behavior.
Now for the last time it's time to get back on topic. Thank you. Last edited by Redbeard 101 on Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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Any of you guys think it is easy to moderate a highly active and diverse forum like this one is invited to try it sometime. I have and don't care to go into it again.
Any system and any methodology in this environment is going to have an imperfect and subjective component in it and Mistakes Will Be Made. I think it is small price to pay to not have to put up with runaway flame wars that would otherwise occur. |
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