Forum - View topicBest World-Building Tournament: Concluded!
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Galap
Moderator
 Posts: 2354 |
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I still think that something visual like Best Fight or best transformation sequence would be a good new direction to go in. I'm pretty ambivalent about the tournament speed or size or whatever. If it's most moe or something else 'light' like that, I'm probably not going to participate though, since the main reason I do these things is to have serious discourse.
Also, my roommate, who's known as Ghost_Wheel around these parts recently just the LOGH super famicom game, and in what I guess you could call a celebration of its victory in this tournament and the fact that they're making more of it, we're going to be streaming ourselves attempting to play the game. It'll mostly consist of me and another friend trying to read the cutscenes and menus with our kindergarten-level Japanese vocabluaries. Thought that some people here might conceivably be interested in seeing that. You can watch it here. We'll start shortly after the time of this post. |
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Spastic Minnow
 Bargain HunterExempt from Grammar Rules  Posts: 4609 Location: Gainesville, FL |
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I'm sorry... but how in the name of the moon/Voltron would you even begin to debate best transformation sequence?
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13224 |
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There are plenty of things to consider. Like how visually dynamic it is (some one just standing there while their clothes change vs. one with multiple camera angles and poses), how well the music enhances the scene, the amount of detail put into it, length (could be too short or too dragged out), how good the build up to the scene is if applicable, etc.
There are things to talk about, and while "serious discourse" is fine, what turns away more casual participants are the huge walls of text. To avoid tl;dr it'd be nice if all we had to say was "I like the SRX combination because we get to see in detail how the 3 robots fit together, especially since their designs are so radically different. The music also adds that epic feel to it." We don't need to approach each vote as though it was a thesis we were handing in to our literature professor. |
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mow123
 Posts: 339 |
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I'm going to have to agree with Spastic Minnow. Sure, there are things like visually dynamics, technicals, pacing etc, like Vaisaga mentioned but the amount of substance here compared to the wealth of material we had to work with for previous tournaments is seriously lacking. We can have a fun less serious topic without having to resort to this route. Biggest Loser and Most Nerdy, a more generalized version of farichada's and Olliff's idea of Biggest Otaku all seem more promising. I have the same issue with Best Fight Scene. Also both of these choices are seriously genre limiting another thing that we have shied away from and is worth considering when considering the broad appeal of the tournament. I know Olliff isn't huge on action and mecha, and while I know he would probably still participate we don't need to be genre limiting and make this tournament more niche than it already is. Pretty much if a poster isn't into action shows with a bunch of fights, mecha or magic girl shows both of these options don't have much to offer. I have also supported Biggest Jerk in the past, and if done right it should be easy to distinguish from Most Evil. There's a huge difference between petty jerkiness and insidious cold blooded evil. I'm sorry a murderous insane psychopath like Johan is a little more than a jerk, and I'm not buying that they both mean the same thing. Plus that tournament was a long time ago, and what I am proposing while it may have some overlap, the premise is quite a bit different. A lot of these more modern tsunderes, such as Kirino, are huge mean-spirited jerks; I think it would be hard to argue that she is evil. It's not like she's going around killing babies or doing anything truly evil other than maybe being a bit of a perv and sexual deviant. A common non-anime example to highlight the differences between jerkiness and evil would be Darth Vader (evil) contrasting with Dr. House(jerk). |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13224 |
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Well, that's kinda the point. We don't want a topic that will warrent a 30 page report for each candidate, meticulously breaking down why they deserve to be crowned the biggest loser/most nerdy/biggest jerk, etc. The last two tournaments were like that, so it'd be nice if we had one where we just had to look at a 30-60 second clip and decide which one we like more. It might be genre limiting, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. If the pool of potential candidates is too huge, it's harder for people to pick and more likely really strong candidates will be over looked. Though even within those genres, there are a ton of scenes to choose from so there's hardly limited options. |
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Jose Cruz
 Posts: 1773 Location: South America |
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Besides tournaments why not do polls?
Something like: Best anime of the 1990's poll. Each users send their top 10 favorite anime titles from the 1990's. The 1st place has 10 points, the 10th place, 1 points. You give the users about 3-6 months to send in their lists. You add all the points in top 10 lists together and make a top 50 list. Then, you release the list slowly, over a period of a month, so people can comment on each title. It's an idea to encourage people to also watch stuff from other seasons. Anyway, I personally think that watching only new stuff is not very intelligent because you can either watch old classics or watch the mostly mediocre new stuff. |
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mow123
Posts: 339 |
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No need to resort to hyperbole. Some amount of depth is needed due to the tournament's format. Can you imagine the arguments for a 15-60 second transformation on the late rounds? This would be better accomplished by a poll, and does not at all create a discussion. Also genre limiting is bad because it limits appeal not necessarily limiting the amount of candidates. There are many anime fans that are not into magical girl and mecha shows, which probably would source over 90% of the nominations for Best Transformation. |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13224 |
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Haha, sometimes it doesn't feel that exaggerated. Often we'll have a handful of participants tossing walls of text back and forth. That's all well and good for those really into it but, but for 'filthy casuals' like myself, it can be pretty daunting to jump into that, especially if you feel your reasons don't live up to that standard. As for what the arguments would be in later rounds... I imagine it would be the same for every other tournament: people repeating the same things over and over with the added prefix of "This is why X is better than Y." Anyways, regarding your suggestions, Biggest Loser and Biggest Jerk are pretty negative topics (one could argue Most Nerdy is too) so I'd rather something more positive. I'm still in favour of Best Mascot because if one didn't want to discuss it's role in the story, how well it represents its series, etc, you can at least gush about how cute it is. |
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Galap
Moderator
Posts: 2354 |
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This isn't just directed at Spastic Minnow, but at the discussion of how to debate a transformation in general. Here I'll give an example matchup and an example vote for it: Cure Ace's transformation in Dokidoki Precure vs Cure Rouge’s transformation in Yes Precure 5 GoGo These are two really great transformation sequences, and both have really captivating motion and energy. In the first, I really love how we look down each of her limbs in a negative silhouette, with the posing and motion being very abstract, the rapid rotations of both her body and the contrasting pink areas make her look like a doll or cutout in this form, while still retaining her three dimensional form and solidity: it's like she's the abstract ideal of her character here. Then points of flame erupt and engulf everything, eventually expanding outward and turning the backdrop into a deep red blaze. Her human form is revealed limb by limb, by pulling curtains of roiling, but controlled flames. She pulls her hands and arms inward, like she's pulling them out of water, or away from a flame. The motion is more controlled than that, though, like a dancer making those motions, practiced a million times. Then, her face emerges from feathery flames reminiscent of a phoenix. Her hair and clothing escape from the fire, or maybe are spun into existence by it, and then there's this lovely cut where she draws a flaming script A, emerging from a closeup in circular perspective. At the end, she throws her hands up, camera looking up at them, and finally makes a rapid but precise hand gesture, forming a capital A. What I like most about this one is the very even-handed cadence of the motion, how smooth in time each rotation and gesture is; no part is given weight over any other part. It's all like a carefully orchestrated and well practiced dance routine. You really get the impression that the character at this point knows what she is doing and really understands her own power. You can see that her strength comes from her understanding of the natural world, and seeing herself as part and consequence of that world, of the settings around her. She is merely the lead voice in an ensemble of forces that converge to manifest her transformation. The other sequence, Cure Rouge’s, I picked because it’s another transformation of a character with fire-based power, but the sequence is very different in presentation and meaning. We begin with a neon clad Rouge leaping upward and to the left, then snappily striking a very wound-up pose, arms crossed and legs bent. Then, she straightens her limbs, ejecting a wave of bright yellow flame with explosive force. She spins around rapidly, jets of flame shooting from her upward pointing arm and downward pointing leg. She manifests her gauntlets by throwing plumes of fire outward, her hands glowing neon red with power. Finally, she coils in again and extends her arms and legs in inverted V patterns, the background bursting into aggravated flames. This sequence says a lot about her character as well. Rouge, unlike Ace, clearly sees her power as a tool to exert control and dominance over her surroundings. It’s a way to affect the world. She is the master and controller of the flames, rather than both being entwined in an even relationship. The more violent motions of her flames and body show how she solves her problems in a more head-on and forceful way, where Ace handles things based on comprehension and perception. Ultimately, I prefer Ace’s transformation in Dokidoki, because I like the more even-handed motion, and the contrast between the controlled nature of the effects and the fact that what’s being depicted is fire, which is often seen as wild and destructive. A fire-based character with a more intellectual personality is more interesting to me, and the transformation definitely reflects that. I actually think it’s a testament to the power of these kinds of sequences that you can see so much of the character’s personality just from how they physically transform. Ace’s transformation is much richer and more unique, though, going for ethereality and weightlessness over force and momentum, even though I often prefer the latter. Anyways, yeah that was a pretty in-depth explanation, because I was also trying to show every aspect of how you can go into this kind of thing, and that you can essentially be as in-depth as you want to be about it. Shorter justifications certainly can be done just as well. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18178 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Someone else will be running the tournament if we ever do a Best Transformation Sequence theme, as I despise such scenes with such a passion that I wouldn't even participate. (And yes, that includes mecha and super-hero transformation scenes.)
Actually, I'd have to participate just long enough to nominate one particular scene. In some anime I have - I think it's one of the To Love-Ru titles - there's a scene where a magical girl ducks behind a building and manually changes clothes to turn into her magical girl persona. One of the funniest magical girl parodies ever! Enh, on second thought, if monstrous transformation scenes were allowed then I might be tempted to participate. I can tolerate those a bit more. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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^
You are of course referring to this scene which I did post earlier. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ7dLpJLw5w Absolutely hilarious. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4074 |
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Ok... Best transformation is Ayumu from Is This a Zombie for taking all the reasons for having a transformation sequence {and it's never for the target audience} and turning it into a "How do you like it?" situation. Result? He liked it very much, thank you. All other examples are all about the "how"; This one covers every case of "why?" possible from why would he do it to why that outfit to why is he making that face. The good part is that this would be the extent of my participation in such a thing because I have zero interest in comparing and contrasting ways animators make stock footage. And the times when its not made to be repeated over and over again, it's usually to point out how meaningless it is. In a completely unrelated topic, I just finished my first viewing of Wedding Peach. Transformation sequences, please, no more, I can't... |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13224 |
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Of course they'd be allowed. How else are we gonna get those Super Saiyan and Freeza scenes in there? 
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Just putting it out there for fun, but how about Most Convincing Trap? And if that name is either too PC or else not broad enough, Most Feminine Male Character. Exhibit A: the recent picture Calathan used in the Character Guessing Game:
That's a dude, though his gender could be swapped to female without necessitating a single change to his character design. I've been an anime fan for almost nine years and I still do double-takes whenever I realise that a female-looking character is actually male, especially one that feminine. Although I'm throwing it out there for the wolves to say nay, it could genuinely be an interesting and fun tournament to have. So whaddaya think? |
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Galap
Moderator
Posts: 2354 |
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That could be pretty fun. I can't tell you how many times I get that wrong initially. It's probably worst in video games though. There have been multiple occasions in which my friends were playing fire emblem or Tales or something and I saw a character and said, "Oh, she looks cool," to which they reply: "That's a guy."
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