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ikillchicken
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:10 am Reply with quote
I feel like I literally don't even know what the hell is going on here anymore. Then again, intense apathy has long since begun to cloud my ability to even process this show. Although still, it feels a lot like the writers just came out of their little time travel side trip and literally only then realized that they had a single episode (and very little budget) to conclude their story. So they figured...eh, spoiler[court scene I guess? There's almost too much nonsense here to count. The whole court setup is ridiculous. I think my favorite part is how their father is able to just stroll into the court and proceed to casually toss what looks a hell of a lot like a pipe bomb to his daughter, the supposedly super dangerous defendant, before the guard finally comes over and kinda half-heartedly restrains him. And I don't even understand the context of what's happening. I mean, it's not a civil case but Agni Moon are the ones sitting right at the prosecutors table.

Also, Agni Moon is like the most incompetent evil corporation ever. Their plan is basically to take a 12 year old, cute as a button little girl to open court and sell her as some super deviant criminal air pirate. (Although, the spectators are evidently just as dumb cause they're buying it). And the mom... I assumed they'd done something to her originally. But no. Evidently, she was just like "Oh gee, I suddenly don't even remember having daughters and am basically acting like a robot" and then they're just like "Eh, seems legit. Go ahead and have access to all our sensitive and incriminating info." And somehow, the pirates are able to just sneak in and photograph all this super incriminating stuff off screen.

And wait, what even happened with Anna? Did she do literally anything? She got that note from...somebody but I don't even know if she showed up after that. There was certainly no resolution between her and the girls, nor was there any resolution or elaboration on her relationship with Roberto. Oh and perhaps even more egregiously, we simply learn the tesaro (aka the thing that drives the whole [expletive] plot) was never completed and doesn't exist. We don't even really learn what the hell it was supposed to do either. Oh and Roberto, who by all rights was the main villain here, not his father, does almost nothing. I guess he gets arrested for murdering his father. But his role could literally have been filled by a random aggrieved citizen. And yet they did find time to resolve the least meaningful aspect of the show, the middle sister's crush who's name we don't even know. Lovely. But hey, it's okay because WE'RE ALL GOING TO JAPAN WHEEEEEEEE!!!!!!! *flies off into sunset*]


I will say though, as atrocious as the writing here is, this was a pretty solid show visually. I mean, sure, CG mechs. And as usual, they're very over-designed and don't blend with the rest of the show. I guess if I want to be positive though I could say they look less bad than usual for anime. And the rest of the show looks pretty good. Nice, colorful, unique designs. Well directed enough. Nice music too. I especially like the OP. Pretty easy to forget all this though given the writing.

Blood- wrote:
My whole point with respect to matters of opinion is that they are hopelessly, by-definition subjective. Nothing that is hopelessly, by-definition subjective can ever be considered a fact. Do you honestly disagree with that? If you do, why? Please explain your reasoning.


Well I never used the word "fact". Same goes for all this talk about measurement. I've never suggested that we can treat anime like we treat a length of distance. I'm not really sure where you're getting all that. Obviously media is highly complex and there is no clear or definite way in which we can measure its qualities. I don't believe that everything that isn't easily measurable to us is completely subjective however. Imperfections and ambiguities in our ability to observe and quantify something does not in itself indicate that it is completely devoid of objective truth. It will mean that our beliefs only roughly and inadequately reflect that truth, but not that no such truth exists. Furthermore, I'm not denying that there is a mountain of personal taste and ambiguity when it comes to media either.

But my point is this: We can present logical, reason-based arguments with varying degrees of soundness in regards to media that will more or less apply to people in general and not just own own completely subjective taste. If you want argue that fundamentally, what constitutes the standard for "good" media is subjective, that's fine. But there is objective truth to statements as to whether (or perhaps how well) media conforms to a given standard. As such, between people who more or less agree on what that standard is, there can be a discussion of fairly objective true or false opinions about a show. Of course, without a doubt, as those standards become more ambiguous as they tend to do as you move from more specific and clear cut elements to more abstract or large scale ones, it introduces a growing degree of subjectivity. But there are still at least some elements that are objective that we can talk about. So while all our opinions will be heavily influenced by personal taste, different perceptions and the general ambiguities inherent in talking about media, I think we can't dismiss it as "hopelessly subjective" either.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:59 am Reply with quote
Wow, that was just...I don't even. Was "I love you Papa" supposed to be Roberto's redemption moment?

This series was just such a disappointment. In a season that seemed bereft of any new titles that made me go "wow!" GD breezed in like a breath of fresh air. The first couple of episodes I loved the characters - the youngest was cute without being obnoxious, the middle hadn't tuned into a useless, whiny Aoi yet, and the oldest seemed like she could be tolerable if she were given some traits besides overbearing and insufferable as the series progressed, i.e., she wasn't quite a deal breaker. The parents were funny, the dialog was crisp, the art was pretty, the action wasn't lacking, and the plot looked like it would be interesting.

And then it all went to hell in a handbasket. Oh well, made me appreciate Yowamushi Pedal all the more. Very Happy
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Philmister978



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:11 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
spoiler[And wait, what even happened with Anna? Did she do literally anything? She got that note from...somebody but I don't even know if she showed up after that. There was certainly no resolution between her and the girls, nor was there any resolution or elaboration on her relationship with Roberto.]


Not really, she only appeared in one scene after that - the end. I would have loved to see them do more with her this episode (like put her in the same cell as the sisters and try to defend her part in the mess). And looking at the previous episode and this one, they never do show how she got captured and placed into that cell.

Quote:
I will say though, as atrocious as the writing here is, this was a pretty solid show visually. I mean, sure, CG mechs. And as usual, they're very over-designed and don't blend with the rest of the show. I guess if I want to be positive though I could say they look less bad than usual for anime. And the rest of the show looks pretty good. Nice, colorful, unique designs. Well directed enough. Nice music too. I especially like the OP. Pretty easy to forget all this though given the writing.


I think I'm in the minority here when I say I thought the character animation and background art took a bit of a nose dive after episode two. It all just seemed to get repetitive, blurred together and less impressive as it went on.

As a whole, the series was a bust in pretty much all aspects. With the writing, of course, being chief amongst it all.


Last edited by Philmister978 on Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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ikillchicken
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:34 am Reply with quote
Philmister978 wrote:
ikillchicken wrote:
spoiler[And wait, what even happened with Anna? Did she do literally anything? She got that note from...somebody but I don't even know if she showed up after that. There was certainly no resolution between her and the girls, nor was there any resolution or elaboration on her relationship with Roberto.]


Not really, she only appeared in one scene after that - the end. I would have loved to see them do more with her this episode (like put her in the same cell as the sisters and try to defender her part in the mess). And looking at the previous episode and this one, they never do show how she got captured and placed into that cell.


Yeah, the more I think about it the more bizarre it seems. She's being spoiler[held by Agni Moon I guess and then somebody frees her...except we never find out who and then she just disappears except for one shot of her standing there at the end.] I honestly don't think I'm exaggerating when I say it feels like they got 9 or 10 episodes in and then the writer was like "Oh shit! NoitaminA shows are only 11 episodes!? Not 12 or 13? Fuuuuuuuu..."
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Philmister978



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:59 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:

Yeah, the more I think about it the more bizarre it seems. She's being spoiler[held by Agni Moon I guess and then somebody frees her...except we never find out who and then she just disappears except for one shot of her standing there at the end.] I honestly don't think I'm exaggerating when I say it feels like they got 9 or 10 episodes in and then the writer was like "Oh shit! NoitaminA shows are only 11 episodes!? Not 12 or 13? Fuuuuuuuu..."


I noticed that too. But weren't the sisters also being held by Agni Moon too? Wouldn't it have made sense to put them all in the same cell?

Oh, and I checked it out, none of the writers worked on a NoitaminA series before (Which would explain the ass-pulls and lack of development). But I did notice that one of them has Excel Saga, R.O.D. and Samurai Flamenco as his some of other credits.
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ikillchicken
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:30 am Reply with quote
I think the girls were being held by the police because they got grabbed by interpol at the end of the last episode. Don't really remember what happened with Anna though.

Anyway, I'm certain they didn't actually forget they only had 11 episodes. I'm pretty certain that scripts get completely written before they go into production. Although hey, I guess if the writer really just did NOT give a crap he might have written a 12 episode show and then just crammed 11 and 12 into one to avoid reworking the whole thing. Laughing That's completely and utterly implausible of course, but...this ending. It's kinda driving me to ridiculous, absurd explanations. It's that bad. Laughing
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Philmister978



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:43 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
I think the girls were being held by the police because they got grabbed by interpol at the end of the last episode. Don't really remember what happened with Anna though.


But I feel it would have made much more sense if they all (the sisters and Anna) were arrested by the same people (either the police or Agni Moon). I mean wasn't Anna still in cahoots with the sisters even after she was outed as Roberto's spy?
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Blood-
It...it's not like I post for you or anything!It...it's not like I post for you or anything!


Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:47 am Reply with quote
Actually, the show did explicitly state that Pirate Dude was the one spoiler[who freed Anna from Andri Moon (and conveniently got his hand on the sketches, etc).]

Not that that saved the finale from being jaw-droppingly bad, however. ikc's assumption that the writers ended the climax of the show in a courtroom "drama" due to budgetary reasons gives them too much credit, I think. I don't think the decision was driven by any kind of rational thought process like that at all - I believe they genuinely thought that would be the best way to go. Jesus.

I ended up rating this Not Very Good because the parenthetical to that in ANN's rating system is, "but not a total waste of time." That pretty much sums up how I feel. There were things I did like about the series. And at least its flaws were spectacularly bad as opposed to just mundanely bad. So yeah, there's that.

at ikc - I think we just fundamentally disagree on the definitions of fact and opinion and whenever there is disagreement over definitions it becomes very difficult to debate. My last word on the topic is that the reason I went down this road in the first place is that I strongly disagree with dtm42's stance that matters of judgment, such as "Is this good or bad writing?" are objective in a way that matters of fact are. I kinda get a person who gets angry if another person refuses to accept that 2 + 2 = 4, but if you remove from your mental toolkit the idea that your JUDGMENT on matters of OPINION is not an OBJECTIVE TRUTH, then it opens up the possibility of maybe not being quite so condescending and dismissive of those who do not share your judgment. Theoretically.
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Shiroi Hane
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:15 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
I think the girls were being held by the police because they got grabbed by interpol at the end of the last episode.

They were being held in the same prison by the same corrupt policeman as back at the start of the series. Quite why Interpol decided to send supposed international criminals back to a little cell in their home town is...
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ikillchicken
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Joined: 12 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:16 am Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Actually, the show did explicitly state that Pirate Dude was the one spoiler[who freed Anna from Andri Moon (and conveniently got his hand on the sketches, etc).]


Ah okay. That was sort of what I thought it might be but I evidently missed it being explicitly said.

Blood- wrote:
I ended up rating this Not Very Good because the parenthetical to that in ANN's rating system is, "but not a total waste of time." That pretty much sums up how I feel. There were things I did like about the series. And at least its flaws were spectacularly bad as opposed to just mundanely bad. So yeah, there's that.


I had much more fun with the arguments about time and objectivity that this show spawned than with the show itself. Don't know if ANN has a rating for that. Laughing But no, seriously, I don't know how to rate this. You're right, it did have enough redeeming qualities, especially early on, that rating it super low is too much. But at the same time, giving it a mere "Not Really Good" gives its flaws and the ridiculous mess it became by the end way too much credit.

Blood- wrote:
My last word on the topic is that the reason I went down this road in the first place is that I strongly disagree with dtm42's stance that matters of judgment, such as "Is this good or bad writing?" are objective in a way that matters of fact are. I kinda get a person who gets angry if another person refuses to accept that 2 + 2 = 4, but if you remove from your mental toolkit the idea that your JUDGMENT on matters of OPINION is not an OBJECTIVE TRUTH, then it opens up the possibility of maybe not being quite so condescending and dismissive of those who do not share your judgment. Theoretically.


Fair enough. I don't want to beat a dead horse here either. I'll just restate that my original point is that it's actually irrelevant. 2+2=4. Yeah, it's annoying if someone won't accept that. But given how complex media analysis is, it's more like this. There's a good chance either person could be wrong in any scenario so there's no reason to be condescending or dismissive even if it is an objective matter.

Shiroi Hane wrote:
They were being held in the same prison by the same corrupt policeman as back at the start of the series. Quite why Interpol decided to send supposed international criminals back to a little cell in their home town is...


It seems like we should probably not question this show's logic. It only begets more questions.
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Philmister978



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:32 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:

Shiroi Hane wrote:
They were being held in the same prison by the same corrupt policeman as back at the start of the series. Quite why Interpol decided to send supposed international criminals back to a little cell in their home town is...


It seems like we should probably not question this show's logic. It only begets more questions.


Yeah, questioning the show's logic hurts the mind.

But I think i have a theory as to why Anna wasn't with the girls in the cell (or the court room). Andri Moon bribed Interpol and the police to take her off their hands.

Stupid theory I know, but it's not like the show would have done it better.
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Gina Szanboti



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:22 pm Reply with quote
Telescope/pipe bomb - I was thinking that too. Smile

I don't see how putting the girls in prison for life helps AdniMoon at all, other than covering up their own crimes in the search for the sketches and tesoro thingy. If their ploy is successful, they've just put it beyond their reach, and are left with just raiding the methane resources until they run out. Since they seem to control the police, why not just take custody of them and threaten to kill them (that worked before)?

Any guesses as to why spoiler[Roberto shot Francesco? Was that like an honor killing or something? Boredom? Had an extra bullet his OCD demanded he use? How did he fail to leave a crane at the scene?! I guess that's a sign he's a broken man...]

As for Anna, who were the guys behind her on the rooftop? Were they AdniMoon guys or prison guards or personal bodyguards or chauffeurs or her new unrequited love obsessions? There seem to be a bunch of positions suddenly opened up at AdniMoon, maybe she's the new CEO...

Finally, could someone please explain the part about Picco Rosso? Something about making it a cyborg or...? That just got lost in the massive infodump and I can't bring myself to watch it again to figure out what the hell they were talking about.
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danilo07



Joined: 25 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:49 am Reply with quote
Holy shit,it seems that ikillchicken was right.I found this interesting fact on AS forums today.Director said that the show was originally designed to be two cours,and they had already done story planning for the entire show.Then Aniplex came ,and told him to cut the entire thing to one-cour in length.Which is why everything had "summary" feel to it.This was the source http://yaraon.blog109.fc2.com/​blog-​entry-​20750.​html
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phia_one



Joined: 15 Jan 2012
Posts: 613
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:26 pm Reply with quote
danilo07 wrote:
Holy shit,it seems that ikillchicken was right.I found this interesting fact on AS forums today.Director said that the show was originally designed to be two cours,and they had already done story planning for the entire show.Then Aniplex came ,and told him to cut the entire thing to one-cour in length.Which is why everything had "summary" feel to it.This was the source http://yaraon.blog109.fc2.com/​blog-​entry-​20750.​html


Damn, now I'm even more disappointed.
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darkchibi07



Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 3830

PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:52 pm Reply with quote
danilo07 wrote:
Holy shit,it seems that ikillchicken was right.I found this interesting fact on AS forums today.Director said that the show was originally designed to be two cours,and they had already done story planning for the entire show.Then Aniplex came ,and told him to cut the entire thing to one-cour in length.Which is why everything had "summary" feel to it.This was the source http://yaraon.blog109.fc2.com/​blog-​entry-​20750.​html


Well, isn't that dandy?! Another title in the "What could have been" pile of potentially really good. What are the chances this could get a remake or a do over?
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