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I feel like AOT embraces a lot of typical Shōnen tropes that some people adore and other find grating, but also subverts enough to feel fresh and new.

If there's one thing I found a bit grating, due to no fault of its own, it was how the show had to alter some minor scenes to get through censorship issues, and for the most part it did it well.

The thing is, AOT should be allowed to be as violent and ugly as it wants to be. At least, that's how I feel.

What's there to debate about with this show? It doesn't contain any girls in sailor uniforms, no high schools, no brain dead male leads and no otaku pandering bullshit, therefore this show automatically gets raised into notably superior status. Aot, aku no Hana, and kill la kill were it for 2013.

I must say, this is the brownest show I've ever watched

Rainrix wrote:

What's there to debate about with this show? It doesn't contain any girls in sailor uniforms, no high schools, no brain dead male leads and no otaku pandering bullshit, therefore this show automatically gets raised into notably superior status. Aot, aku no Hana, and kill la kill were it for 2013.

But Eren's pretty dumb. So is the protagonist of Aku no Hana by all reports.

Also Kill la Kill? Seriously? Its entire motif is "Girl in Sailor Uniform (and tons of over the top fanservice)"

Rainrix wrote:

What's there to debate about with this show? It doesn't contain any girls in sailor uniforms, no high schools, no brain dead male leads and no otaku pandering bullshit, therefore this show automatically gets raised into notably superior status. Aot, aku no Hana, and kill la kill were it for 2013.

Kill la Kill has otaku pandering with (combat) sailor uniforms. You can also argue that Aku no Hana has a dumb male lead. Besides Aku no Hana wasn't really popular either.

Since when does not having those qualities make a series good anyhow?

Parse Error wrote:

terminus24 wrote:

I was just comparing the essential, stripped-down plots of the two series, and saying that they were essentially very similar, if not the same.

Of course they are, once you boil things down to the point of "monters/aliens/bad people/whoever attack city/country/species/planet/interstellar empire/wherever, then heroes assemble and go on quest to make peace with/defeat/exterminate/whatever these enemies." That also means Gurren Lagann is basically the same as countless other stories over the past few thousand years, so your point still doesn't make any sense.

There's more specific similarities than that, though. Both start out with the world already taken over by giant monsters, and the remnants of humanity confined to a tiny area. Said monsters turn out to be unexpectedly intelligent and have a hidden agenda. spoiler[Some of the heroes turn into something like the monsters to fight them; when doing so, hot-bloodedness is the main source of their strength. A major character suddenly dies early in the show to reveal that it's Serious Business.] Politics becomes important later in the show, and the hero is nearly executed because his superiors couldn't control him.

It's not as if Gurren Lagann was the first to do any of these things (both shows have generally standard heroic quest plotlines), but I don't see the comparison as meaningless.

Anyway, I mostly agree with the review on this one. It's entertaining, and the plot has more depth than you'd expect, but the exaggerated-ness of everything makes it hard to take seriously. I really don't understand the Mikasa fandom; other than being more skilled than the male lead, she's a stereotypical action girl, and she seemingly acquired her fighting skill in a sudden fit of shonen inspiration. Armin is the only interesting character of the main three, and the only one that develops noticeably.

Rainrix wrote:

What's there to debate about with this show? It doesn't contain any girls in sailor uniforms, no high schools, no brain dead male leads and no otaku pandering bullshit, therefore this show automatically gets raised into notably superior status.

The braindead male lead is debatably there, and a lot of otaku are apparently also zombie apocalypse and/or horror fans, to whom this panders considerably. Sailor uniforms and high schools are only background elements in most good shows that have them, and not having them is not an automatic stamp of quality.

rheiders wrote:

Brent Allison wrote:

I wanted to like this show, but I could only feel angry and depressed while watching each episode. Since I couldn't enjoy it and had to drop it, I feel like I've betrayed fandom somehow, or I'm less than a real fan because of it. Sorry folks.

If anyone tells you this just because you didn't like a particular piece of entertainment, they're the ones in the wrong. There's no such thing as a "real" or "fake" fan--if you like anime, then you are an anime fan. Smile

Exactly.

NEVER think that you aren't a "real" fan or that you "betrayed" anyone just because you did not like a show as much as many others have. Like what you like. If what you said were the case, then I guess me not liking either Fullmetal Alchemist series, Eden of the East, anohana, or even AoT through Ep. 8, and instead, loving Dragonaut, thinking Endless Eight was great, or that Fractale and Glass Fleet were really good in spite of their flaws (a la Martin's review here, in reverse), then I guess I'm not a "real" anime fan, either.

If you liked a show, you liked it. If you didn't, then you didn't. Don't ever feel like you have to like an anime because everyone else did. What's popular is what's popular and that's that. The "popular" crowd is a nebulous thing with no true existence. You are not "betraying" anyone. Enjoy having a mind and opinions of your own: you'll get a whole lot more out of anime (and other things) that way. Wink

The show would have been better if only they would have killed Eren...

I should clarify that I'm an anime fandom researcher. If I can't make myself watch AoT, powerful sense of dread before hitting the play button notwithstanding, then I lost a big impact on anime fandom, and my research (and credibility) will suffer because of it. That's why I feel like I've betrayed fandom, because I'm a supposed "expert" of it but can't bring myself to watch the show that impacted it the most for 2013. Fans will bring it up in interviews, and I'll have to nod my head and pretend to know what they're referencing if it's something that happened after I dropped it. I am very unused to not being able to relate to anime fans, and it makes me feel like I've lost my edge.

Key wrote:

In fact, I would put AoT in the same category as SAO in the respect that it's enormously entertaining despite its writing rather than because of it.

I suspected that someone was going to make this comparison. SAO and AoT share the distinction of being the biggest hits of 2012 and 2013 respectively, and both shows are action-centric. Beyond that, they are very different in overall quality.

I agree with this review that Attack on Titan could have been better written, but it is not enough to damage the overall story/plot. On the other hand, the writing in Sword Art Online really undermines a show with a great premise but lousy execution.

If I were to give a grade to the writing and execution in both series, I will give SAO a C and AoT a B+.

I can understand that it was over top but I really that's what drove the fear and adrenaline. Aside from that, it was still extremely enjoyable. Also, did we forget about the main 6 faces trope?

brankoburcksen wrote:

The current show-runner for Dead (#3 I think) said the current season will focus on how the characters retain their humanity in such an unforgiving world. This intrigued me since AoT explored this same conflict albeit in a more overt way. What exactly would be the strengths and weaknesses of being subversive or overt about this theme?

spoiler[Jean has quickly become one of my favorite characters. He is not just butting heads with Eren but Armin as well. In the last episode he actually speaks out against sacrificing your humanity to achieve the goals they desire. I like how they do not just blindly say to the audience, "Giving up your humanity is the only way to change anything." Jean makes this an argument worth exploring. I only wonder, is the point of making this subject so overt meant to make the audience think on the question themselves rather than just see how the plot works things out?]

Good job addressing the "Giving up your humanity is the only way to change anything" theme, since for me it is the only part of Attack on Titan that’s truly memorable and has some depth in it. Unlike you, I really appreciate this dark one-dimensional message: If you want to survive in a cruel world, you have to be the most cruel one. To beat the devil, you must become the devil. Win at all cost, be merciless and ruthless in order to do that. Sacrifice your morals, humanity, idealism since positive virtues as harmony, sympathy, friendship, trust, empathy, hope, dignity, tolerance are practically worthless and may hinder you in a dead or alive fight. It's eat or be eaten.
It feels like a throwback to Darwin’s survival of the fittest theory. This theme doesn’t fit anymore in modern day society since we strive for co-existence, but can be/are applied in sports, gaming, maybe politics to a certain degree.

In the world of AoT, retaining humanity while beating the titans is a beautiful idealistic goal, but most likely not achievable and I like this sense of realism and how it is pointed out with the numerous deaths on both sides. Sometimes reaching the greater good requires trespassing boundaries, laws, morals with the fear of losing oneself, a common theme in western shows about vigilantes and I think it's used here as well.

I really want my western friends to watch this in English.

I watched the series after it had completed it's run, and I couldn't stop watching the next episode.

It would have been unbearable to watch it once a week.

That is pretty much the most important mark of a good series. How badly do you want to watch the next episode?

The scale of anime quality can be summed up as

I regret watching the first one > I don't > I might > I will > I'm about to > Already am! > MARATHON, BIATCH!!!

Kyojin pretty much ranks somewhere between "already am" and "marathon"

The MMA fighter that the author mentioned to be based off is Brock Lesnar I think according to his words for the character, Reiner. That being said, a decent review and AOT is definitely a show I'm sure fans will be talking about for years to come.

Oh and season 2 in the future?! I hope so. There's still an OVA to come later this year though.

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