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I hear they omitted bonus material from certain titles, because they were too cheap to spring for it.

Malintex Terek wrote:

I don't have to. CMX cleaned up house and showed those silly otaku who the real boss of the publishing industry really is.

...

Then again, I wouldn't expect grown men who live in their mother's basements to realise something as painfully obvious as that. Hah.

This is interesting. I thought the real boss in any industry was the paying consumer who decides whether a product is worth his money?

Paul Levitz asserts the reason for the edits was to reach a wider distribution network. But no mention was made of the financial success of the title as a result. Do we just equate that wider distribution with that success or assume that from the premise?

khryoleoz wrote:

Malintex Terek wrote:

I don't have to. CMX cleaned up house and showed those silly otaku who the real boss of the publishing industry really is.

...

Then again, I wouldn't expect grown men who live in their mother's basements to realise something as painfully obvious as that. Hah.

This is interesting. I thought the real boss in any industry was the paying consumer who decides whether a product is worth his money?

Paul Levitz asserts the reason for the edits was to reach a wider distribution network. But no mention was made of the financial success of the title as a result. Do we just equate that wider distribution with that success or assume that from the premise?

well...the volumes are just keep coming out so figure they're making SOME money....

khryoleoz wrote:

Paul Levitz asserts the reason for the edits was to reach a wider distribution network. But no mention was made of the financial success of the title as a result. Do we just equate that wider distribution with that success or assume that from the premise?

Can someone provide bookscan numbers as to the sucess of TenTen, or are we gonna continue to speculate whether or not CMX is blowing smoke outta their @$$?

But I have a possible solution: Shove the unedited TenTen to their Vertigo line. Problem solved, where do I collect my check?

It's simple, Any editing of anything is just wrong. DC & CMX just royally screwed up and now they are having to back track. If they don't want to publish something the way it is, don't license it. . . . This is worse than the Tipper Gore crap about music several years ago in my book . . .

I think part of the problem is that the manga audience is still very new to DC. They've dealt with angry fans before, but the concerns of, say, the Superman/Batman audience are not the same as the concerns of the Tenjho Tenge audience. DC sounds like they're a little in over their head and not sure how to handle these new kinds of problems. Like any business, they want their customers to be happy, except they don't seem to know who their audience is--only who they want them to be.

Ok, it looks like some DC readers are starting to chime in on this. Like urumi_chan, I started out reading Marvel Comics, then later ventured over to DC/Vertigo over years, including lots of manga, and I've read all different types of comics over the years. I started reading comic books when I was about 12 and I'm 28 now; and for the record I'm also a career woman who hasn't lived with the parents in 8 years. When I heard that DC was adding a manga line all I could think was "I guess they finally want in on that cash cow". That's right kids, for DC, the manga is about the money.
Having said that, I would also like to point out that Paul Levitz is notorious for being out of touch with the times and not really caring about the fans, so don't expect any miracles out of this man. But one thing that really got me about this controversy over censoring gore and sexual violence to keep innocent eyes safe was the way ultra-violence is potrayed in the heavily promoted crossover event Infinite Crisis.
For those of you who aren't familiar with Crisis, its kind of a re-occuring theme in the DC universe, its sort of the way the clean continuity house. And in this most recent Crisis (which springboards from the 2004 mini-series Identity Crisis, which also featured violence and rape, though not as graphic as some manga) was a bloodbath. We get to see an overpowered Superboy Prime slaughter a group of Titans. He punches the head clean off Pantha, then turns his heat vision on Wildebeest (who I might note is a 5 year old who can "hulk out" into a large beast) seering his head off, then turns it on Bushido and blasts him in half while tearing off Risk's arm. All of this was fully rendered for all to see. Later on in the series Black Adam shoves the Medusa Mask right through Pyshco Pirate's head, again drawn in full gorey detail. Nevermind that, as is ever the case with company wide crossovers in DC, the Amazons of Paradise Island are slaughtered by the hundreds(something that infuriates us Wonder Woman fans to no end). They get to explode, get shot, have limbs torn off, you name it.
And all this was featured in a headlining event with no mature readers label, no censorship and no shame. So, anyone care to chime in on this now?

Quote:

Ok, it looks like some DC readers are starting to chime in on this. Like urumi_chan, I started out reading Marvel Comics, then later ventured over to DC/Vertigo over years, including lots of manga, and I've read all different types of comics over the years. I started reading comic books when I was about 12 and I'm 28 now; and for the record I'm also a career woman who hasn't lived with the parents in 8 years. When I heard that DC was adding a manga line all I could think was "I guess they finally want in on that cash cow". That's right kids, for DC, the manga is about the money.
Having said that, I would also like to point out that Paul Levitz is notorious for being out of touch with the times and not really caring about the fans, so don't expect any miracles out of this man. But one thing that really got me about this controversy over censoring gore and sexual violence to keep innocent eyes safe was the way ultra-violence is potrayed in the heavily promoted crossover event Infinite Crisis.
For those of you who aren't familiar with Crisis, its kind of a re-occuring theme in the DC universe, its sort of the way the clean continuity house. And in this most recent Crisis (which springboards from the 2004 mini-series Identity Crisis, which also featured violence and rape, though not as graphic as some manga) was a bloodbath. We get to see an overpowered Superboy Prime slaughter a group of Titans. He punches the head clean off Pantha, then turns his heat vision on Wildebeest (who I might note is a 5 year old who can "hulk out" into a large beast) seering his head off, then turns it on Bushido and blasts him in half while tearing off Risk's arm. All of this was fully rendered for all to see. Later on in the series Black Adam shoves the Medusa Mask right through Pyshco Pirate's head, again drawn in full gorey detail. Nevermind that, as is ever the case with company wide crossovers in DC, the Amazons of Paradise Island are slaughtered by the hundreds(something that infuriates us Wonder Woman fans to no end). They get to explode, get shot, have limbs torn off, you name it.
And all this was featured in a headlining event with no mature readers label, no censorship and no shame. So, anyone care to chime in on this now?

I agree 100%. I recently started really getting into comics again, and I finished reading the infinite crisis series about a month ago. All I can say is, wow. How can DC/CMX say they want to edit things when they put stuff out like this weekly with no labels, warnings, or shrink wrap? Do they think that only adults read comics now, and only kids are interested in manga? If so, they are sadly mistaken.

And about DC's Vertigo line, I just finished reading up to volume #45 of "Y The Last Man". Its got a lot more nudity, violence, and profanity than most of the manga or adult comics out there.

Also, I'd like to see some numbers of CMX's sale of TT. Everytime I go to a comic shop or book store, its always there. It doesn't exactly look like its flying off the shelves (but I wouldn't know for sure, since I'm not CMX)

I've been to Conventions across the country and I've seen more people buy the anime than the manga. Most fans know about the edits done by CMX and a lot of them avoid them. (IE. A guy I saw getting stares from fans when asking for the latest TT at the CMX booth this past Anime Expo)

It's my opinion that we're living in an age where people want the most out of their dollar. So, if they find out that something they love is being censeored or kept from them, obviously they'll be upset. Why upset a huge fan base? I don't know, but it's their company, and they can do want they want. Although, like urumi_chan said, I'd love to see how they handle volumes 14 and on.

If you like TT and don't mind the edits, my hats off to you.
If you don't like the edits, you can get the scanlations (not that I support that Rolling Eyes

) or you can buy the Japanese version. (A few of my comic shops sell them as it is being distributed in the US by Diamond Comic Distribution)

Bottom line is, I don't think CMX will be releasing an unedited version. From what they've been saying, it seems that they don't want to do it, and they don't feel the need to do it. (Not that they can't, because they most certainly can, and probably wouldn't feel any negative effect in doing so).

Donna M. wrote:

That's right kids, for DC, the manga is about the money.

That, in and of itself, is not reason enough to condemn them. Especially if they're putting out quality work. Which they're not. (And for the record, everything DC and Marvel is "about the money." These are the guys who killed Superman, maimed Batman, unmasked Spider-Man, and have BIG EVENTS farely regularly. At least they're consistent, eh? Who's up for another round of Marvel Mangaverse books?)

Donna M. wrote:

But one thing that really got me about this controversy over censoring gore and sexual violence to keep innocent eyes safe was the way ultra-violence is potrayed in the heavily promoted crossover event Infinite Crisis.

Editing for violence does seem a bit hypocritical, but as I said before, DC thought they were dealing with a different, younger audience. Most of the people who read superhero books are in their twenties. DC really screwed up by assuming that manga was solely the realm of teenagers. They've been writing one kind of book for one kind of audience for so long that they were completely unprepared for manga's versatility. (Have you ever seen these people try to make a romance comic? It still looks like a superhero comic!)

I'm not trying to defend DC. If defending them were my intention, I think the paragraph above was a pretty piss-poor attempt. I'm just trying to get at the real reasons for why DC screwed this manga up so badly. And I think it all comes down to their not knowing who their real audience is. They've been talking to the manga audience the same way they talk to their normal superhero audiences. The people at Marvel and DC have to defend their creative decisions on a farely regular basis, and as a result have developed a kind of "Well, you can't please everybody" approach to communicating. In other words, they sort of learn how to become diplomatically dismissive. And I think something about that tone pisses off manga fans.

Donna M. wrote:

And all this was featured in a headlining event with no mature readers label, no censorship and no shame. So, anyone care to chime in on this now?

I'm not sure I'd like to "chime in" on behalf of DC, because I'm pretty much in agreement that DC screwed up. Yeah, they jumped on the bandwagon. Yeah, they didn't know what they were getting into. Yeah, it seems strange to edit for violence when their own comics are pretty brutal already. I pretty much think that DC needs to rerelease the book as a more "authentic" version, or pass it on to someone who knows how to handle it.

I'm sorry if I'm not as angry with DC as you feel I should be. If it makes a difference, I don't buy their manga.

GATSU wrote:

Any tips for job-hunting? Wink

Hi Gatsu.

Well, I've been working for the same company for almost 4 years, and I kinda stumbled into a job without really knowing what I was doing. I'm not sure how I made it past the first interview to be honest. I really think it was a matter of luck and being in the right place at the right time.

Quote:

The most recent volumes have delved deep into feudal Japanese history and, as a Japanese history buff, I have found these volumes fascinating. I love how Oh! Great has taken actual historical events and people and used them to explain the complicated history of the 12 families.

Wow, I never thought a fan would praise Tenjho Tenge from that perspective. I take it you're also into Lone Wolf and Cub?

I have always wanted to read Lone Wolf and Cub, but the translated volumes are way too small for me to be able to read. I'm visually impaired, and it's hard enough sometimes to read manga that's normal size. If Dark Horse put out the volumes in same size as Berserk I would definitely pcik it up.

Donna M. wrote:

Ok, it looks like some DC readers are starting to chime in on this. Like urumi_chan, I started out reading Marvel Comics, then later ventured over to DC/Vertigo over years, including lots of manga, and I've read all different types of comics over the years. I started reading comic books when I was about 12 and I'm 28 now; and for the record I'm also a career woman who hasn't lived with the parents in 8 years. When I heard that DC was adding a manga line all I could think was "I guess they finally want in on that cash cow".

Thank you, Donna M., for helping prove that not everyone who thinks DC is in the wrong is a "grown man who lives in their mother's basement." I find this stereotype pretty offensive and it was the main reason why I posted in the first place.

Quote:

But one thing that really got me about this controversy over censoring gore and sexual violence to keep innocent eyes safe was the way ultra-violence is potrayed in the heavily promoted crossover event Infinite Crisis.
For those of you who aren't familiar with Crisis, its kind of a re-occuring theme in the DC universe, its sort of the way the clean continuity house. And in this most recent Crisis (which springboards from the 2004 mini-series Identity Crisis, which also featured violence and rape, though not as graphic as some manga) was a bloodbath. We get to see an overpowered Superboy Prime slaughter a group of Titans. He punches the head clean off Pantha, then turns his heat vision on Wildebeest (who I might note is a 5 year old who can "hulk out" into a large beast) seering his head off, then turns it on Bushido and blasts him in half while tearing off Risk's arm. All of this was fully rendered for all to see. Later on in the series Black Adam shoves the Medusa Mask right through Pyshco Pirate's head, again drawn in full gorey detail. Nevermind that, as is ever the case with company wide crossovers in DC, the Amazons of Paradise Island are slaughtered by the hundreds(something that infuriates us Wonder Woman fans to no end). They get to explode, get shot, have limbs torn off, you name it.
And all this was featured in a headlining event with no mature readers label, no censorship and no shame. So, anyone care to chime in on this now?

I guess mainstream comics have changed a lot since I stopped reading them. I would have never expected to see this type of violence in, say, X-Men, but then again I haven't read that in about 12 years so who knows what they include nowadays. Anyway, given that this is the kind of content that appears in DC's own line of comics, that makes them sound very hypocritical. I remembered that Paul Levitz had said something in the interview about not publishing manga that would go beyond what they publish in their own comics, so I reread it. I can't help but point out how hypocritical DC Comics sounds when their own president can be quoted as saying:

"We probably have a more limited range of what would be at the far edge of R-rated to X-rated content than some publishers. We don't want to do material that is beyond the range we'd publish ourselves in our own lines. That affects the range that we look at as well. The Japanese culture is comfortable with any number of things in manga that American audiences are not necessarily comfortable with. We're probably not going to be the company that is going to push the limits to the extreme there. "

Apparently, the violence in TenTen is somehow more extreme than what's found in Infinite Crisis. Going by what Donna M. described above, I would think there isn't that much of a difference between the violence portrayed in Infinite Crisis and the violence in TenTen. This also brings up another point that has always bothered me about the TenTen edits. Most of what is censored is the sexual content and nudity. So showing nudity and sex is somehow worse than showing someone getting their head chopped off? Is this one of the "cultural differences" between Japan and America that Levitz was talking about? That tearing off someone's arm is perfectly acceptable by American standards, but showing a pair of breasts is not? I would think that seeing someone being cut in half would damage a young person more than seeing a nipple, but I guess Paul Levitz does not.

[/quote]I'm not sure I'd like to "chime in" on behalf of DC, because I'm pretty much in agreement that DC screwed up. Yeah, they jumped on the bandwagon. Yeah, they didn't know what they were getting into. Yeah, it seems strange to edit for violence when their own comics are pretty brutal already. I pretty much think that DC needs to rerelease the book as a more "authentic" version, or pass it on to someone who knows how to handle it.

I'm sorry if I'm not as angry with DC as you feel I should be. If it makes a difference, I don't buy their manga.[/quote]

Naw its cool skaly, I agree with you as well. I mostly wanted to post this so other people would know what had happened. I don't know how many other people on this board read american comics so I just thought I'd put it out there.

What I don't get is why they continue to want to open up a can of worms, when they know what people are gonna say.

I'm going to be picking up Emma when it comes out next month- a must get for me as I am a fan of the series and Kaoru Mori's artwork. I'm also a fan of Sakura (Land of the Blindfolded) Tsukuba, and I'll also be picking up her new series, Penguin Revolution, when it's out the month after.

A couple of other series look interesting too- Oyayubihime Infinity, by Toru Fujieda, and VS, by Keiko Yamada. I miught check them out when they arrive at my local.

Widya Santoso

skaly:

Quote:

And I think it all comes down to their not knowing who their real audience is.

It's not that they don't know. It's just that they have little experience with reaching that audience. Rolling Eyes

GATSU wrote:

skaly:

Quote:

And I think it all comes down to their not knowing who their real audience is.

It's not that they don't know. It's just that they have little experience with reaching that audience. Rolling Eyes

I balme it on William Moulton Marston himself, the sick bastard.

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NEWS: DC Comics CEO on CMX, Tenjho Tenge Editing