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CCharmanderK wrote:

So basically, they're overusing DVNR, oversaturating the color palette and cropping the image into widescreen because they think we're stupid children.

That's what I'm seeing as well. 'Remastering' here seems to mean 'All the DNR'.

Combined with the mistreatment of the aspect ratio, this set is going to be completely undesirable to any real videophile. You know, the people who actually buy HD blu-ray.

This thread is thoroughly predictable. How quickly people forget: FUNimation led off with a 4:3 Blu-ray that was everything fans said they wanted. It didn't work. Fast forward to this year and they led off by polling the internet on the second release.

I get the frustration. But the "boohoo, FUNimation never listens" complaining is just tiresome and dated now.

GWOtaku wrote:

I get the frustration. But the "boohoo, FUNimation never listens" complaining is just tiresome and dated now.

Apparently they did listen, but to the wrong people who seem to just want the "HD version" on a Blu-Ray disc but without any of the actual benefits of remastering.

Last edited by Spoofer on Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

Hasn't this been known for a couple of months now...?

It'd be nice if Funi would reveal the actual results of that polling they took earlier in the year, so we know what the majority of responders are actually saying. Certainly I made it clear that 4:3 was the only solution that I would be buying, and I know that hundreds or more from Kanzenshuu and other knowledgeable/vocal communities elsewhere would have responded the same way, so it'd be nice to know where exactly our voices stand in the grand schemes of Funimation.

Then again, they could be repeating their past plan of getting both casual and dedicated fans to buy their general cropped release, then offer a legit 4:3 option later on to make the most dedicated fans double-dip. Well, rather, quadruple-dip, or octuple-dip, or whatever the count is at now with how many times Funi has incrementially fixed (it feels wrong to say "improved") their releases.

EDIT: Nevermind, caught up on the Kanzenshuu discussion, and even if these things were 4:3 there's no way I'd spend a dime on them. Saying that the picture has been DNR'd again doesn't even begin to describe what's been done here.

http://imageshack.us/a/img607/263/l4l8.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img716/5636/q7ov.jpg

From: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24858&start=1600#p721953

As others have said, don't see why they made the extra work to change the aspect ratio. Don't care for noise though. These few clips aren't enough to tell if it's been over done or not imo.
I like the idea of having all the covers form a giant piece of artwork though.

I like the idea of the artwork coming together like that, but like everyone else has said, you can make the 4:3 into widescreen with your tv already. Granted, it won't be shot by shot, but still. What if they were cropping Lain like this? It's easy to say "It's DBZ, who cares," but its a bad precedent.

I am not a big fan of noise, but it's better than the over smoothed look we have here. A remaster shouldn't look worse than the source material.

___________

I know its easy to say that they already tried a true remaster that didn't work, but that was more in part to the labor intensiveness of their method, going frame by frame is a pain in the ass. Even if people voted for these things, we already have editions like that on DVD, and the people who want things on bluray are the kinds of people who care about quality like this.

wow. surprised on all the hate so far since its a funi thread, but I can understand the hate.

The trailer is a mess trying to poorly compare both ratios when I know for a fact there bascially manipulating people into thinking the HD 16:9 looks the best. But looking at them closely frame wise the cropped images looked smushed compared to 4:3. Though I loves some saturation of color sometimes, this amount makes it look like the early early 2000's animated titles which I disliked due to color and animation techniques.

Now a long time ago I wished for some of my favorite anime to go 16:9 in future releases until I saw the orange bricks which made me glad Neon Genesis Evangelion did'nt go that route. Though Gainax cleaned a bit, brightend colors, and changed some scenes animation/color wise, they kept aspect ratio. Besides the fact the last couple of episodes needed the fix. And if I had to choose a manga ent video quality release over ADV's platinum release, then I probably would have been a broken man Anime hyper

.

But I really love the packaging idea even with the annoying disc art. Just so sad there is no true, "no video strecth/ruin" clean release with Bruce Falkeners music which I find to be the definetive soundtrack. Disapointing though it aint in the D boxes, but its in a bad orange box, and now its in a crummy blu ray release. So no buy of old DBZ yet.

Now I remember participating in the survey during june saying I wanted a blu ray release in original aspect ratio due to comparison examples showing the flaw of 4:3 to 16:9 strecth techniques. Guess Funi was listening to the talking money of people whom I severly disagree with. Rolling Eyes

Funimation has to do what they can. They released the poll and the fans said they wanted more dragonballz on bluray. This is kind of the only option they have. I assume they have to release it the way they are planning to because toei doesn't want to do the remastering work themselves. As you know the dragonball franchise is too much of a money maker to not release on bluray. I think funimation just got tired of waiting and they just want to do it themselves.

GWOtaku wrote:

This thread is thoroughly predictable. How quickly people forget: FUNimation led off with a 4:3 Blu-ray that was everything fans said they wanted. It didn't work. Fast forward to this year and they led off by polling the internet on the second release.

I get the frustration. But the "boohoo, FUNimation never listens" complaining is just tiresome and dated now.

The point is they listen too much. Rather than have the balls to not ask momma if it's okay to make their own decision (i.e. maintain artistic integrity out of respect for the original source material and just make the damn thing 4:3), they decide to make a poll and ask "everyone" what they want. Unfortunately, the majority of "everyone" is full of idiots, and so starts the 2nd coming of the "Orange box" debacle, only this time in HD.

But if you think about it, after the Orange boxes were completed on DVD, they came out with the Dragon boxes some time later. Ah, I get it. They're just being slimy so both crowds will eventually buy one or the other! Good idea, FUNi! fudge you, anyway, but way to be a bunch of capitalist pigs!

You know what? Screw it! I'm just gonna pay the premium for the Toei R2s and learn how to burn subs on the discs. I'm not putting up with FUNimation's glutton tactics anymore!

why widescreen seriously :@

A5J4DX wrote:

why widescreen seriously :@

Once upon a time, TV's were Square. And idiots bitched when widescreen movies 'didn't fill the screen'. So we got 'Full Screen' versions of movies.

Today, TV's are rectangles. And idiots bitch when full frame shows 'don't fill the screen'. So we get Widescreen versions of TV shows.

Idiots spend far too much money for their own good.

EnigmaticSky wrote:

I am not a big fan of noise, but it's better than the over smoothed look we have here. A remaster shouldn't look worse than the source material.

Covnam wrote:

Don't care for noise though. These few clips aren't enough to tell if it's been over done or not imo.

It's not noise, it's grain. If you took the reels of 16mm film that DBZ was stored on and projected them, grain is what you would see. It's an inherent part of the image now, inseparable. Unless you reconstructed the entire show again from the original cels, it is DBZ now. Sure some slight DVNR can smooth out an image and keep it consistent, but this about the worse looking HD encode I've seen. Calling it "noise", like it's something wrong with the image that can be corrected, makes you sound ignorant.

BrammerHammer wrote:

Funimation has to do what they can. They released the poll and the fans said they wanted more dragonballz on bluray. This is kind of the only option they have. I assume they have to release it the way they are planning to because toei doesn't want to do the remastering work themselves. As you know the dragonball franchise is too much of a money maker to not release on bluray. I think funimation just got tired of waiting and they just want to do it themselves.

You forget that FUNi released part of DBZ a while back on BluRay, and the general consensus on it was how "definitive" it was for a 16mm BD. I guess it didn't do well enough for FUNi so they abandoned that run and now all you have is this.

Mr Adventure wrote:

Once upon a time, TV's were Square. And idiots bitched when widescreen movies 'didn't fill the screen'. So we got 'Full Screen' versions of movies.

Today, TV's are rectangles. And idiots bitch when full frame shows 'don't fill the screen'. So we get Widescreen versions of TV shows.

Then shouldn't they also be bitching hard when a 2.39:1 film doesn't fill up their screen? Should studios crop those films to 16:9 because the general populous is dumb? Yeah, take that Ben-Hur, screw you and your 2.76:1 aspect, now you're 16:9!

16:9 was developed as compromise between CinemaScope aspects and 4:3 as it is, but I guess what's why disc boxes always say "black bars on the top and bottom of your image are normal", because people are too stupid to know otherwise. What pisses me off is that the Japanese are cropping 4:3 films as well, and they should know better. They did it with Genma Taisen, one of the LoGH movies, and Arcadia of My Youth, so I'm very fearful they'll do more in the future.

Well, if nothing else..... at least it's pretty cheap. And if the ANN article is correct, they don't seem to be skimping out on the extras, either.

And the mural across the three covers does look very cool.

walw6pK4Alo wrote:

It's not noise, it's grain. If you took the reels of 16mm film that DBZ was stored on and projected them, grain is what you would see. It's an inherent part of the image now, inseparable. Unless you reconstructed the entire show again from the original cels, it is DBZ now. Sure some slight DVNR can smooth out an image and keep it consistent, but this about the worse looking HD encode I've seen. Calling it "noise", like it's something wrong with the image that can be corrected, makes you sound ignorant.

"Ignorant" is a bit strong, since film grain is noise, in both the technical and layman's definitions of the word. It's noise introduced by the physical nature of silver-halide film.

You're right, though, that there's no way Funi is going to remove film grain and make things look more like the cels without stomping all over other intentional image effects that look like noise to the software. Computers just ain't that smart, and even if they were, Drs. Nyquist and Shannon have things to say about what can be done. Information theory is a harsh mistress.

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