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ANNCast - Keepin' It Neil


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Mad_Scientist



Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 2321

PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:05 pm Reply with quote
That was a really fun ANNCast, and I definitely got more than a few laughs from the whole Cory Maddox thing. Sad laughs, but laughs nonetheless. Thanks again for making an awesome podcast.
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Melanchthon



Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 544
Location: Northwest from Here

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:06 am Reply with quote
Ah, Crystal Triangle, I remember that movie. It raised so many questions. Like what does God need with a spaceship? Or why is God a large green Caterpie? Although given how bizarre that entire movie is, I'd give even odds that the writers really did want to refer to AK-74s.

When it comes down it, I favor looser translations, that aim for English readability over loyalty to the original Japanese. I think of it like the Platonic ideal -- You translate the Japanese in the pure Idea of what is meant, and the you take that Idea stuff and translate it into English. It makes me angry when people take a stock Japanese expression ('lend me your power' comes to mind) and leave it at a literal translation (no one in the history of the English language uttered the words 'lend me your power' until fansubs came along). But that's nothing compared to ten years ago, when it was vogue to leave half the text in Japanese. We of course know that Keikaku means plan, but I've seen fansubbers leave simple things from nakama (comrade) to bukatsu (club) to hai (yes) untranslated.
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Fronzel



Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1290

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:12 pm Reply with quote
Melanchthon wrote:
But that's nothing compared to ten years ago, when it was vogue to leave half the text in Japanese. We of course know that Keikaku means plan, but I've seen fansubbers leave simple things from nakama (comrade) to bukatsu (club) to hai (yes) untranslated.

You want obnoxious weeboory? I saw a fansub that splashed a giant, distracting translation note across the top of the screen to explain something in the background that had no bearing on what the characters were talking about.
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invalidname



Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 558
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:17 pm Reply with quote
rec.arts.anime and FidoNet… wow, thank you for making me feel old yet again. Now excuse me while I go join the Bubblegum Crisis kickstarter.
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ljaesch



Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 289
Location: Enumclaw, WA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:33 pm Reply with quote
Another great podcast this week, and Neil was a great guest. I enjoyed hearing some of the historical aspects that he shared in regards to translating. Ramen as "instant noodles with soup" made me chuckle.

I will admit that I also had some sad chuckles over the whole Corey Maddox and Crimson Star Media debacle. Between what I've seen the forum and hearing Neil on the podcast, he seems to be handling this whole situation with a lot of grace and class, and I have a lot of respect for him for that.
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Cptn_Taylor



Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:25 pm Reply with quote
Melanchthon wrote:
Ah, Crystal Triangle, I remember that movie. It raised so many questions. Like what does God need with a spaceship? Or why is God a large green Caterpie? Although given how bizarre that entire movie is, I'd give even odds that the writers really did want to refer to AK-74s.

When it comes down it, I favor looser translations, that aim for English readability over loyalty to the original Japanese. I think of it like the Platonic ideal -- You translate the Japanese in the pure Idea of what is meant, and the you take that Idea stuff and translate it into English. It makes me angry when people take a stock Japanese expression ('lend me your power' comes to mind) and leave it at a literal translation (no one in the history of the English language uttered the words 'lend me your power' until fansubs came along). But that's nothing compared to ten years ago, when it was vogue to leave half the text in Japanese. We of course know that Keikaku means plan, but I've seen fansubbers leave simple things from nakama (comrade) to bukatsu (club) to hai (yes) untranslated.


I also subscribe to this idea, readability over loyalty. Either in speech or the written word. Seriously the only way to watch japanese anime the way the japanese do is "simply" to learn to speak and write fluent japanese. Good luck with that.
Since I have no intention whatsoever of learning japanese to simply watch cartoons I'll go for the next best thing. A good adaptation/translation in english.

As for fansubs. Well since they're free and zero cost I won't criticise them too much. If the "purity" angle becomes to much I simply stop watching.
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BonnKansan



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:26 pm Reply with quote
Great fun interview all around. Since I'm currently working on subtitling some Japanese extras myself, it was very comforting to hear that they aren't easy for a 20-year veteran translator either. Unscripted speech can be fascinating to listen to - if you aren't having to deal with it on a deadline, that is.
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FLCLGainax



Joined: 10 May 2010
Posts: 118
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:06 pm Reply with quote
That anecdote about Carl Macek was quite amusing.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 7739

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:48 am Reply with quote
Sure is great being an anime fan now, where one can just download obscure stuff like Gotou ni Naritai, Happy Birthday, and Abashiri Ikki on lightning fast connections. I couldn't imagine being as ravenous of a fan as I am now back in the 90s when you had to wait so long for so little, and i imagine clubs would have never wanted to watch a movie about a girl with a bad leg anyway. Most of the problem with the fansub scene these days is just getting the people to sub stuff, like another depressing anime film about a mentally challenged girl?
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Cptn_Taylor



Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:04 am Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
Sure is great being an anime fan now, where one can just download obscure stuff like Gotou ni Naritai, Happy Birthday, and Abashiri Ikki on lightning fast connections. I couldn't imagine being as ravenous of a fan as I am now back in the 90s when you had to wait so long for so little, and i imagine clubs would have never wanted to watch a movie about a girl with a bad leg anyway. Most of the problem with the fansub scene these days is just getting the people to sub stuff.


You could also say that in years past only the "good" productions from japan trickled to the west to a large extent and hence we were shielded from the mediocre/bad. Of course we had to rely on what anime companies thought were good productions and that's a big can of worms. Laughing
Nowadays you get access to everything, the good, the bad, the really bad, the horrendous and even the borderline if not over the line criminal productions (lolicons and shotcons shows). Anime fans now have to filter the wheat from the chaff.

Fansubs these days have a lot of problems, the least of which is getting the stuff subbed. The use of 10bit color depth is a big problem since it makes the fansubs impossibile to watch on any device that is not a desktop computer. Forget mobile, tablets, ipads, smart tv's etc...
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Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 482

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:05 am Reply with quote
Really enjoyed this episode as this was a fun look at the industry you rarely hear about.
Normally I stick to the content and don't comment on anyone's particular mannerisms, but was Zac okay this week? Seems like quite a number of times after Neil finished talking, Zac made some sound that implied he didn't want to be there or wasn't interested in what was being said. Once or twice, ok, no big deal, but it was very noticeable and I kept wondering how Neil could not have been offended by it.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 7739

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:18 am Reply with quote
Cptn_Taylor wrote:
Fansubs these days have a lot of problems, the least of which is getting the stuff subbed. The use of 10bit color depth is a big problem since it makes the fansubs impossibile to watch on any device that is not a desktop computer. Forget mobile, tablets, ipads, smart tv's etc...


That's not an issue for me as I only watch anime on my computer. As a problem for everyone else, it will probably go away once HEVC comes about, since that has to made for all consumers on all devices for any of the big companies to make use of it and adopt it.

Also, it's not just computers desktops that are capable, any recent enough laptop should do just fine, since it mostly has to do with your processor. My TV becomes a second screen when I connect my laptop to it, so I bypass any proprietary "Smart" business potentially getting in my way. Now I just wish it had a BD drive, so I wouldn't even have to bother with my stand-alone BD player anymore.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 6900
Location: Snake Mountain Cocktail Lounge

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:14 am Reply with quote
Covnam wrote:
Really enjoyed this episode as this was a fun look at the industry you rarely hear about.
Normally I stick to the content and don't comment on anyone's particular mannerisms, but was Zac okay this week? Seems like quite a number of times after Neil finished talking, Zac made some sound that implied he didn't want to be there or wasn't interested in what was being said. Once or twice, ok, no big deal, but it was very noticeable and I kept wondering how Neil could not have been offended by it.


This is either projection or you misinterpreting me completely. Either way it's not fair and isn't at all accurate. I loved having Neil on.

We conduct these interviews via Skype, so there is some awkwardness when it comes to knowing when someone's done speaking - you don't have the usual visual cues that let you know when someone's finished. So I usually err on the side of caution and let a pause happen before moving on, which might be what you're hearing.

Either way, your reading of it is really uncharitable to me and kind of insulting. But hey, thanks for listening.
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vanfanel



Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 585

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:58 am Reply with quote
Good show! I've enjoyed Mr. Nadelman's work for many years now, so it was great getting to hear his stories and insights into translation.

The mention of rec.arts.anime.misc made me nostalgic and inspired me to go back for a look around there...a few familiar usernames are still posting, but the big shocker was spotting a thread with a [GRIT] header. "That thing is still alive?!" Nope, just a spambot replying to a thread from 1998. Very Happy
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PurpleWarrior13



Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 1238

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:06 pm Reply with quote
Would love to hear a show about bad anime! I can only imagine the kind of stuff talked about.

Always interesting to hear about the old days of the fandom. I didn't know about that old phone message board thing. It must have been neat to see everything evolve throughout the 90s.
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