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NEWS: Osaka Government Drops Crossdressing Ban at Cosplay Event


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mdo7
It's Over 9000!It's Over 9000!


Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 4923
Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:41 am Reply with quote
Sariachan wrote:
What's the big deal with dancing? Shocked
Could someone with a first-hand knowledge of JP culture and laws please explain?


That's what I would like to know, what does Japan have against dancing?? Shocked
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 2962

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:20 am Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
dan9999 wrote:
Quote:
According to the committee, a few years ago a male cosplayer, dressed as a female, who entered the men's bathroom was mistaken as a female and caused a scuffle.


Something this insignificant caused the ban...


Yeah, I find that event stupid as a cause for calling the ban. It's really discriminatory.

Alan45 wrote:
@mdo7
Freedom of speech is a U.S. concept. It does not necessarily exist in the same format in other countries. It depends entirely on their own laws.


No, it's not only a US thing. It's part of a universal human right. The Freedom of speech is not really a US thing, the British first came up with that concept in 1689. I consider dance as a freedom of expression, restricting dance at a nightclub is a violation of that freedom of speech. Other then Japan, I don't see any other countries other then Japan (correct me if I'm wrong) putting up similar law banning dance at nightclub.

Swedes hit streets in fight for right to dance

Quote:
Passing that law is somewhat anti-social IMO. If you were living in Japan, you would probably hate that law.

While I'm sure it won't survive a real legal challenge, for now everyone just ignores it. Like this club. Or this club. Or this host club (for the gals Wink )

I mean think about it, concerts are legal, whether at stadiums or small gigs in clubs, and people you know, move their bodies. And how they reconcile legal clubs with pole dancing as "not dancing" is beyond me.
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Oraculo



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:24 am Reply with quote
Quote:
... there were absolutely no thoughts of discrimination.


Riiiiight. That word (discrimination), I do not think it means what you think it means...
Maybe when they use the phrase, "of discrimination", it really means, "involved whatsoever about anything."??? *sigh*
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 10944

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:51 am Reply with quote
Japan likes to avoid any little trouble or confrontation as much as possible, ergo these types of blanket bans. Meanwhile, those affected aren't wont to fight authority, so they just accept it as shoganai.
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hpulley



Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 407

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:26 am Reply with quote
Sariachan wrote:
What's the big deal with dancing? Shocked
Could someone with a first-hand knowledge of JP culture and laws please explain?

IANAL but I have lived in Japan and more importantly, I can use google...
http://www.news.com.au/​travel/​world-​travel/​dancing-​all-​night-​is-​a-​crime-​in-​japan/​story-​e6frfqai-​1226652807190
Quote:
POLICE in Japan are raiding and shutting down nightclubs for the crime of dancing.
Under the Law on Control and Improvement of Amusement Business (fueiho) any establishment that allows dancing must obtain a license. To obtain the license venues must have a main room with at least 66m2 of unobstructed floor space and the club must close by either midnight or 1am.
In an interview with EyesCream magazine in 2012 DJ Emma said: "Every weekend, we DJs are breaking the law."

Just like the Sweden article above, you need a license for a dance club. 1am is early for Japan, many places only open at midnight, close at 6am. But only for beer and yakitori... absolutely no dancing after 1am! Lawbreaking dance DJs sounds like a fun idea for an anime..
http://thump.vice.com/​words/​dance-​lawyers-​are-​fighting-​japans-​club-​crackdown
Quote:
You’re in Roppongi, Tokyo’s wondrously seedy nightlife district. Elbowing past throngs of girls painted like kabuki dolls and their slouching Nigerian boyfriends, you slip into a storied nightclub, where you start uncurling your limbs to the acid techno pulsing out of monolithic speakers. But as soon as you start busting out your best Robo-cop, a staffer taps you on the back. Politely but firmly, they direct your gaze to a wall where a “no dancing” sign is lit up by strobe lights. Stop dancing, you’re commanded. Despite your innocent intentions, your wild twerking could end up shutting the whole place down.

Note if you go to Japan. Those Nigerians are not their boyfriends, they are likely their pimps... just talking from experience with them asking me if I wanted Japanese, Chinese or Russian girls...
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Catseyetiger



Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 529

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:55 am Reply with quote
Why stop people from something so simple? its just expression and normal and very human trait.

also no dancing at a night club? really? now thats just odd.
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hpulley



Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 407

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:42 am Reply with quote
Catseyetiger wrote:
Why stop people from something so simple? its just expression and normal and very human trait.

also no dancing at a night club? really? now thats just odd.
Read the articles. Someone was hurt in a club in 2010, therefore action had to be taken... the usual action is to shut things down, license them, etc.
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faintsmile1992



Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 295
Location: England

PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:26 am Reply with quote
The Mad Manga Massacre wrote:
Chrno2 wrote:
This is surprising. I didn't even know what a ban like this existed.

Me neither. Honestly I'm mad that they tried to ban it in the first place. I get Japan isn't sensitive towards the GSD (gender and sexual diversity) community but discrimination like this just makes me mad. Evil or Very Mad
I think you are reading western identity politics into this, the motivation was merely to avoid disorder after a scuffle, that's all - its only like the dancing ban.

Such things are not considered that seriously over in Japan like in the USA or western Europe.

mdo7 wrote:
Japan doesn't allow people to dance at nightclub. Doesn't that violate freedom of speech in Japan??
What has dancing got to do with speech? RazzLaughing

Surrender Artist wrote:
Last year he went on a tear against public servants in the city having tattoos. He's also in league with fellow awful person and former Governor of Tōkyō, Shintarō Ishihara.
Tattoos are a taboo in traditional Japanese culture because they violate bodily purity, and as a result were historically associated with yakuza. I imagine many older Japanese would find tatooed men threatening for this reason, and if you understand the perceived yakuza connection then its hardly the image public servants ought to project to the public. People comment often on japan without understanding the cultural background. Wink

vashfanatic wrote:
Yeah, and the U.S. wrote Japan's constitution, so it's part of theirs as well. Article 21: "Freedom of assembly and association as well as speech, press and all other forms of expression are guaranteed."

Seriously, check it out. It's exactly what you'd expect a constitution written by New Deal Democrats to look like (i.e. awesome).
Funny so many people who object to the "racism" of the Japanese 'far right' are unashamedly supportive of American imperialism. Wink
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 450

PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:00 am Reply with quote
faintsmile1992 wrote:
I think you are reading western identity politics into this, the motivation was merely to avoid disorder after a scuffle, that's all - its only like the dancing ban.

Such things are not considered that seriously over in Japan like in the USA or western Europe.
It's still discrimination.

faintsmile1992 wrote:
mdo7 wrote:
Japan doesn't allow people to dance at nightclub. Doesn't that violate freedom of speech in Japan??
What has dancing got to do with speech? RazzLaughing
What does not dancing got to do with freedom of speech and expression;
Quote:
Article 21: "Freedom of assembly and association as well as speech, press and all other forms of expression are guaranteed."


faintsmile1992 wrote:
Tattoos are a taboo in traditional Japanese culture because they violate bodily purity, and as a result were historically associated with yakuza. I imagine many older Japanese would find tatooed men threatening for this reason, and if you understand the perceived yakuza connection then its hardly the image public servants ought to project to the public. People comment often on japan without understanding the cultural background. Wink
Still discrimination. Cultural concepts change over times and generations, some slower, some faster. No need to get hang up on tattoos.

faintsmile1992 wrote:
Funny so many people who object to the "racism" of the Japanese 'far right' are unashamedly supportive of American imperialism. Wink
I assure you i am not.
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faintsmile1992



Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 295
Location: England

PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:25 am Reply with quote
Well doh. Your concerns about discrimination and for that matter your interpretation of freedom are what is not part of Japanese culture, but you have an attitude that Japanese cultural reasons should be brushed aside because 'Japan must' or 'Japan ought'.
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Sariachan



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1000
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:55 am Reply with quote
hpulley wrote:
Sariachan wrote:
What's the big deal with dancing? Shocked
Could someone with a first-hand knowledge of JP culture and laws please explain?

IANAL but I have lived in Japan and more importantly, I can use google...
http://www.news.com.au/​travel/​world-​travel/​dancing-​all-​night-​is-​a-​crime-​in-​japan/​story-​e6frfqai-​1226652807190

What does "IANAL" stand for?
Also, I can use Google of course, but I wanted to know more about the cultural background behind this law than random news about it. Rolling Eyes

Anyway, thanks for the link.


Last edited by Sariachan on Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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hpulley



Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 407

PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:10 am Reply with quote
Sariachan wrote:
hpulley wrote:
Sariachan wrote:
What's the big deal with dancing? Shocked
Could someone with a first-hand knowledge of JP culture and laws please explain?

IANAL but I have lived in Japan and more importantly, I can use google...
http://www.news.com.au/​travel/​world-​travel/​dancing-​all-​night-​is-​a-​crime-​in-​japan/​story-​e6frfqai-​1226652807190

What does "IANAL" sand for?
Also, I can use Google of course, but I wanted to know more about the cultural background behind this law than random news about it. Rolling Eyes

Anyway, thanks for the link.
I Am Not A Lawyer and certainly IANAB (I Am Not A Bengoshi where bengoshi is laywer in Japanese).
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Cptn_Taylor



Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 434

PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:21 pm Reply with quote
So many people forget the old adage : when in Rome, do as the Romans do.
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