Forum - View topicREVIEW: Log Horizon Episodes 1 - 6 Streaming
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Fencedude5609
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Once again the assumption you need an "original twist" in order to be good. Also worth noting that things are not nearly as clear-cut as they were in say .hack or SAO. |
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phia_one
Posts: 1657 Location: Pennsylvania |
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So I just caught up with the show and I'm really enjoying it. I felt that the characters were easy to like and I love learning about the game mechanics.
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Sven Viking
Posts: 1039 |
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I'd assumed your obsessive loathing of SAO was due to high standards. My mistake. A pleasant enough show if you have nothing else to do, though (or are having difficulty sleeping). It really is rather like watching someone else play an MMO. |
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Chagen46
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One does not need high standards to dislike SAO. You barely need middling standards to dislike it. |
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Dessa
 Posts: 4438 |
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I like SAO, and I still feel Log Horizon is the better series.
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Log Horizon's fundamental flaw is that the characters have in no way tried to understand - or even ponder - the circumstances of the so-called "apocalypse". They accept their new way of life far too easily. While this does mean we don't get the associated angst it is extremely weird and a certain amount of angst is expected and even required in this situation. No-one is worrying about their sick mother or who is looking after their children or whether they'll get back before final exams commence. That's a key piece of humanism that is just missing, like completely AWOL. I am really liking this show but that huge void bugs me a lot.
That said, Log Horizon is superior to Sword Art Online in every other manner bar music and animation. Plot, characters, world-building, gameplay mechanics, tone and especially the general writing quality are all so much better in Log Horizon it just ain't funny. It isn't like Sword Art Online didn't have its own albatrosses. |
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sonic720
Posts: 66 |
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Aren't both SAO and LH like watching someone else play an MMO though? I mean we did not create the characters for either series personally nor do we play as them but rather we watch them in their journey wherever it may lead. I think both shows have merit in different ways. It seems LH is trying to tell a story about the politics of MMOs with the trapped in game/game becomes real world setup as more of an insignificant convenience to that end. LH avoids all drama of escaping the game in favor of telling a story about the game world itself and the characters that make it up... not what I expected going in, or even after the first couple episodes, but its fun in its own way. Basically LH appears to be an exploration of what MMO players might do if unchecked in a world with no more rules; a character study of MMO players and politics. SAO was more about the human spirit overcoming adversity in the face of impossible odds than about the MMO stuff; the setting was not as important as the message of never giving in to adversity. I essentially saw it as what if Ichigo from Bleach was in an MMO. It's the idea that Kirito won't let more of his friends die and has resolved to show the game master that humanity is more resilient than any dire circumstance he can throw at them. So basically standard melodrama focusing on appealing to the emotions of the audience and a story with the heroes defeating the villains in the end. LH and SAO appear to be very different stories that just happen to share a very similar premise, and as such they will not appeal to everyone. The argument that LH is better than SAO or vice versa is dumb to me. Though they are similar in some respects, they are different stories altogether. My enjoyment of a series is not a zero sum game with other series where I need to put one down to lift another one up. I rate each anime based on its own merits, my personal expectations for the series, and how well I think it executed what it was trying to accomplish. I don't think any series is objectively better than another because enjoyment is completely subjective to the person watching. Don't get me wrong, I like some series more than others, but I don't suppose I speak for all of fandom with my subjective opinions on which ones are better or not. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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^
Enjoyment is subjective, true, and the two shows have different aims, also true. So what? Doesn't change the fact that one is appallingly-written wish-fulfillment and the other is (mostly) well-written. Writing quality ain't subjective. |
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sonic720
Posts: 66 |
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I agree the quality of the writing in terms of creating a cohesive story and convincing characters is more objective; if the story does not have a logical flow to it and the characters are not fleshed out very well then that's a fault of the author. That's a lot different than saying show X is better than show Y though; which I see more as an all encompassing statement including one's personal enjoyment of the series despite any obvious flaws it may have. I'm saying generalized statements like LH is better than SAO need to be qualified more as it in and of itself is not an objective fact held by all of fandom; i.e. why do you think this is true? I also think there's just as much "wish-fulfillment" elements in LH as SAO. Any author's biases will bleed into their stories, otherwise they are not human; we are all individuals with different desires and outlooks on life and their stories will reflect their preferences. Look at the moe aesthetic of Akatsuki, the wise enchanter Shiroe, the pervy nature of Naotsugu, the super team feel of their party being maxed out at level 90 at the start, Shiroe being an elite player (sure he needs his companions to be successful in combat, but they don't paint him as a man with many flaws), the scenes with them eating the food Nyanta prepared in blissful glee, the comedy and camaraderie of the Crescent Moon Alliance guild, them dressing Akatsuki up in the worker uniform, Akatsuki addressing Shiroe as her Lord constantly, the equally moe aesthetic of Serara, and the cutesy quality of Nyanta's mannerisms; surely you agree there is pandering toward otaku and MMO players in LH in these regards?
Would you care to expound more upon why you feel the above is true? I disagree that plot is better in LH because they are two different types of stories with different goals. Liking the plot is highly subjective I think. In fact, it took six episodes to even figure out the main plot in LH as opposed to it being rather obvious in SAO in episode one. Again, things like characters and tone and how one interprets them is very much in the eye of the beholder. One can't really compare them and say one is better than the other without explaining why they feel it is true; and even then it is still only their opinion on why they feel that way. I actually agree that so far LH nails the writing better than SAO in regards to making the game world more believable in terms of mechanics and the game characters' relation to the world. No argument there. The jury is still out on the whole series though as we have many more episodes to go. On the other hand, I feel SAO's writing in regards to humanizing the characters first, so we don't confuse them with their game personas, was much better than LH at this point in the series. There was less ambiguity as to who everyone was and what they were about beyond just the game itself (though I too was wanting for more character development at times). |
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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Err...why is this bad? Having your main villain show up in episode 1 and gloat about his plans is not, precisely, considered the height of good writing. So what if Log Horizon's main thrust wasn't immediately apparent? Do you HAVE to know immediately? Especially when the characters don't even know? |
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Sven Viking
Posts: 1039 |
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"Aren't both SAO and LH like watching someone else play an MMO though?"
It's the permanent death that instilled SAO with some tension. Apart from that, assuming there isn't a difference in expectation based on how 'overhyped' a show is seen as, we obviously just differ in taste somehow. I agree that SAO had its albatrosses and can accept that "you don't need high standards to dislike SAO", I just can't see how the main criticisms levelled at SAO don't apply equally to Log Horizon. For example, if SAO's lead had gained a blushing girlfriend who calls him master and follows his every whim in the first episode, would that have made it less of a wish-fulfilment tale? Is it the catchphrase that makes the difference? Last edited by Sven Viking on Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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A) Akatsuki isn't his girlfriend B) Akatsuki is, by a rather ludicrous amount, the most powerful member of the party by herself C) She's not his girlfriend (she might someday be his girlfriend, but she's not now.) |
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Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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Nope. It's the lack of Sachi, Silica, Liz, and Sugu. Not to mention that Shiroe and Akatsuki's relationship is surrounded by other budding romances, be it Naotsugu/Mirelle or Serara crushing hard on Nyanta. Last edited by Megiddo on Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sven Viking
Posts: 1039 |
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"Girlfriend" was hyperbole, but in 90% of magical girlfriend/sudden girlfriend appearance anime, the female lead is not officially the lead's girlfriend until the end of the series if that. Making characters overpowered is not the same thing as good writing (another problem common to both series).
Edit: If harem elements are your main problem with SAO, and you apply that principle equally to other harem-y shows, I have no problem with that. It did put me off a bit in SAO, just not as much as some. Log Horizon has the vaguely-introduced big-breasted characters fawning over people, but no harem elements so far. Last edited by Sven Viking on Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:38 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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sonic720
Posts: 66 |
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I think having a clear goal driving the characters' actions is more appealing than them going on without a goal in mind in a situation where they cannot log out of the "game" world. It provides a motive behind what they are doing rather than them just going with the flow and allowing their situation to define them. This is my personal preference though, and it goes back to my entire point in that post which was what I see as "bad" others may see as "good." I'm not saying having everything about their situation spelled out in black and white is necessary for me to be hooked, but having almost nothing to go on is less appealing for me. |
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