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REVIEW: Wolf Children BD+DVD


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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2581
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:53 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Here's Ye Olde RedLetterMedia test: describe Hana's character without describing what she looks like, how old she is, or that she's a college student or mother. (Aka surface description.) See how long you can type without repeating yourself.

The beginning of the movie itself is given as a retrospective narrative, so in theory the movie is supposedly just a tale from Yuki's perspective on how Hana and the Wolf Dad met up in the first place, so "mom just being mom" is circumstantially justifiable as part of it is that Yuki is telling this story to someone else not long after the end credit scenes (maybe her first new friend that she can trust with such a secret is who this tale is being told to?).

(which assumabley is why you bring up the two movies statement)
So if we take that this movie is Yuki's story with just "mom's story" as a sort of source to why Yuki is half wolf,spoiler[ in a way Ame could conceivably be cut to either develop Hana or Yuki more for a better use of the run time, yet that would conceivably change the flow of the movie in its entirety as the maker undoubtedly wanted to show off the "what if..." for both of the children if they choose to become a human or choses to become a wolf.]
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andyos
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:46 pm Reply with quote
As the writer of an earlier ANN review of the film, may I thank Hope for an excellently argued critique.

Re one of the central criticisms - that Hana is a far too idealised, undefined, 'supermom' - I could accept her idealisation within what I saw as a story, or perhaps a fable, of resilience in terrible circumstances. Even if Hana was implausibly tough, her reactions to each successive challenge made her sympathetic enough to keep me engaged.

Idealised characters have a particular heritage in Japanese cinema. I myself am ambivalent towards Noriko, the gracious widow (though not a mother) in Ozu's Tokyo Story, arguably an even more extreme symbol of virtue. Noriko was played by Setsuko Hara, one of the inspirations for the heroine in Satoshi Kon's Millennium Actress, who's another very stylised character.

After reading Hope's review, I found myself trying to think of believably dimensional mother characters in recent cinema. I could only come up with Judi Dench's character in the British film Philomena, and even she may divide viewers. I had similar difficulties in thinking about a dimensional mother in anime, though I remember I liked the hero's mun in Xam'd: Lost Memories.
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jymmy



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:28 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
I disagree. The film was pretty emphatic spoiler[about why their father died. If you live in a city you have to embrace your human nature. Trying to be a wolf in that environment is a recipe for disaster.]


In the city, perhaps. I thought the rural environment was a good representation of spoiler[a place where you can be either. They escaped there to get away from the suffocating city. I couldn't imagine what happened to the father happening to him on the farm.]

Basically, I saw the climax as more the children spoiler[choosing their paths, rather than being forced onto them]. I don't disagree, but I just didn't get that negative a sense from it all.

Blood- wrote:
If your interpretation of that is, "well, that was just the choice of those two particular characters - two different characters might have come to a different conclusion," that's fine, but I don't buy it for a second. Films don't tend to work that way. They strive for universal themes rather than, "so here's a story where x did y and z did a, but hey that's just particular to those two specific individuals and please don't assume we are trying to draw any larger conclusions from their decisions."


I can understand that view, but I felt this movie was about these two wolf children, rather than about "being a wolf child and what that entails". If anyone's a representation of what happens in that situation, it's Hana. "This is what it's like to be a mother" seems much more the universal message to be than "this is what it's like to be a wolf-human hybrid". I thought Wolf Children was a very personal story, as opposed to, for example, how Summer Wars felt as though it were all about family and how great it was.
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Maidenoftheredhand



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:00 pm Reply with quote
andyos wrote:
I found myself trying to think of believably dimensional mother characters in recent cinema. I could only come up with Judi Dench's character in the British film Philomena, and even she may divide viewers.


Funny I just came back from watching Philomena. Anyways while I agree that Dench's character was a very strongly written I am not sure if I would say the story didn't idealize her to some extent as well. Of course that is also based on a true story.

Going back to the theme of sacrificing your life for your child while I do believe that is a strong theme of the film I disagree with the criticism that the film tells us this is a woman's role.

Instead I feel the film is acknowledging the sacrifice that many women make for their children, including Hana. The ending of the film doesn't just show what happened to Ame & Yuki but tells us

spoiler[That Hana lives alone in that big house. The ending gave me a bitter sweet feeling because in the end Hana only had the happiness of who her children became, she no longer even had them...although we can assume that Yuki at least visits her.]

The story certainly doesn't say because Hana sacrificed for her children she herself was necessarily better off. It is just in the end where her life took her. It makes no judgement either way. So I don't see this as an anti-feminist message at all.
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whiskeyii



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:50 pm Reply with quote
Maidenoftheredhand wrote:


The story certainly doesn't say because Hana sacrificed for her children she herself was necessarily better off. It is just in the end where her life took her. It makes no judgement either way. So I don't see this as an anti-feminist message at all.


? I don't remember anyone saying "Wolf Children" was anti-feminist. Hosada certainly puts Hana on a pedestal a little more than is believable (then again, he did this with the grandmother in Summer Wars, but that just seemed more acceptable with other types of women running around), which is sloppy writing (and probably due to a lack of experience being an actual parent), not necessarily anti-feminist.

Unless you're referring to vashfanatic's earlier post? About Hana giving up college to be a mother? Well, to be fair, there does seem to be quite a few expectations about married women in Japan, and I expect Hosada to be aware of them (though he doesn't have to necessarily refute them). But to me, Hana so obviously enjoyed the idea of motherhood that she decided to trade college for being a mother, which is totally fine and acceptable (to me) because she *wanted* to do that. We're never given any indication of otherwise.
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:07 pm Reply with quote
@ Jymmy - I didn't mean to suggest that their individual choices were forced on them. In fact, the film makes quite clear that they both choose their paths quite willingly.

Why I felt bittersweet about it, is that first, I really liked the spoiler[wolf side of Yuki. She displayed such bravura and freedom, it was exhilarating to watch her. The impression I got was that once she fully embraced her human nature, that that exciting wildness was going to disappear.] For Ame, I got the impression that his dedication to spoiler[being a protector in the wild is that he would not be dropping by for Sunday dinner very much. The film seemed to be saying, "if you choose this path, you must commit to it totally and that means giving up other things that aren't directly relevant to the role you are choosing."] Granted that may just be my spin, but that's how I felt.
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Maidenoftheredhand



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:31 pm Reply with quote
whiskeyii wrote:

? I don't remember anyone saying "Wolf Children" was anti-feminist. Hosada certainly puts Hana on a pedestal a little more than is believable (then again, he did this with the grandmother in Summer Wars, but that just seemed more acceptable with other types of women running around), which is sloppy writing (and probably due to a lack of experience being an actual parent), not necessarily anti-feminist.Unless you're referring to vashfanatic's earlier post? About Hana giving up college to be a mother? Well, to be fair, there does seem to be quite a few expectations about married women in Japan, and I expect Hosada to be aware of them (though he doesn't have to necessarily refute them).


Perhaps I was thinking of Vash Fanatic's post about some Japanese criticism which seems to criticize the story because Hana does make sacrifices for her children as though the story was saying this is the only choice for women and I disagree with that. .

Anyways even if Hosoda became a parent (which he is now) he still would never be a mother. Hence he would never be able to completely get into Hana's head.

If Hosoda wanted to tell a story about the admiration of motherhood then telling it from the child's perspective works. I don't see anything sloppy about telling a story about an idealized mother from the child's POV.


Last edited by Maidenoftheredhand on Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:32 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
"well, that was just the choice of those two particular characters - two different characters might have come to a different conclusion," that's fine, but I don't buy it for a second. Films don't tend to work that way. They strive for universal themes rather than, "so here's a story where x did y and z did a, but hey that's just particular to those two specific individuals and please don't assume we are trying to draw any larger conclusions from their decisions."

That is how I felt the movie treated the children's conclusion is that the film WASN'T decisive on creating meaning for the children's "end of youth" story, most other films want a decisive message and this movie was purposely indecisive by having siblings in the first place.
spoiler[If the movie wanted a "defined conclusion" of what we already know that did occur to Ame and Yuki, or an outright third "hybrid" option, the film would have cut one out one of the kids to focus on an individual child (the gender of the child being almost irrelevant to the story telling process).
]
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Key
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:04 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Why I felt bittersweet about it, is that first, I really liked the spoiler[wolf side of Yuki. She displayed such bravura and freedom, it was exhilarating to watch her. The impression I got was that once she fully embraced her human nature, that that exciting wildness was going to disappear.] For Ame, I got the impression that his dedication to spoiler[being a protector in the wild is that he would not be dropping by for Sunday dinner very much. The film seemed to be saying, "if you choose this path, you must commit to it totally and that means giving up other things that aren't directly relevant to the role you are choosing."] Granted that may just be my spin, but that's how I felt.

No, I had almost exactly the same impression in both cases, although I only found the former case to be a little bittersweet.
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ANN_Bamboo
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:28 am Reply with quote
I think Hana's sacrifice goes beyond just putting education on hold and moving to the countryside. She sacrifices "choices", so that her kids have the chance to choose their paths in life.

Hana didn't choose to be a single mom... and she could've walked away, or done a half-assed job. But instead, she busted her ass so that her kids had opportunities in life, which is symbolized by the overly simplified "human or wolf?"
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whiskeyii



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:06 am Reply with quote
Maidenoftheredhand wrote:


Perhaps I was thinking of Vash Fanatic's post about some Japanese criticism which seems to criticize the story because Hana does make sacrifices for her children as though the story was saying this is the only choice for women and I disagree with that. .

Anyways even if Hosoda became a parent (which he is now) he still would never be a mother. Hence he would never be able to completely get into Hana's head.

If Hosoda wanted to tell a story about the admiration of motherhood then telling it from the child's perspective works. I don't see anything sloppy about telling a story about an idealized mother from the child's POV.


Personally, I'd hope that seeing his wife go through the actual trials of motherhood will be eye-opening to him in his portrayal of mothers. ^^;

I guess why I find Hana's characterization to be "sloppy" (in the sense that it seems to lack any real kind of depth) hearkens back to Summer Wars. There were mothers in that movie, and they all acted believably different. And while I can understand that Yuki may not have witnessed or even give credit to the non-idealized parts of her mother, I felt that Summer Wars, though it focused mostly on Kenji, did a really great job of giving good, varied characterization to *all* the characters, even the minor ones (though this may be due to a lack of any kind of narrator).

To me, it's a bit like the narrator of "The Great Gatsby". If we take Yuki's recollection at face value, Hana seems too good to be true (and, to me, a little boring). If not, and Yuki is an unreliable narrator, then I miss having the opportunity to see Hana really struggle with being a mother, especially a single mother. I think I would find her infinitely more interesting if I saw her struggle through the mistakes she makes.

Like I said, I just don't find Hana to be a very convincing representation of motherhood, but that's just me. It obviously worked for you, but Hana's characterization is one of the reasons I found this movie to be less compelling than Hosada's other works.

Btw, just as an aside, my interpretation of the ending pretty much matches word-for-word with Blood-'s take on it, though you might have felt differently about that as well.
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:22 am Reply with quote
@ Key - the reason I found Ame's decision bittersweet isn't on account of how he himself felt about it, but on behalf of Hana. I felt bad that the implication was that she spoiler[was not ever going to see much of him again.]
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ShatteredWorld



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:27 am Reply with quote
One of my favorite films, period.

Easily 10/10.
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Maidenoftheredhand



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:22 am Reply with quote
whiskeyii wrote:

If not, and Yuki is an unreliable narrator, then I miss having the opportunity to see Hana really struggle with being a mother, especially a single mother. I think I would find her infinitely more interesting if I saw her struggle through the mistakes she makes.


I think the movie showed that she definitely struggled and she would not have made it in the country side without help from her neighbors. To me she was just idealized in the sense that she never gave up and always kept smiling.

Quote:
It obviously worked for you, but Hana's characterization is one of the reasons I found this movie to be less compelling than Hosada's other works.


I actually find Summer Wars to be his least compelling work. I like its themes but it was too busy to me for a movie.

Quote:
Btw, just as an aside, my interpretation of the ending pretty much matches word-for-word with Blood-'s take on it, though you might have felt differently about that as well.


I agree with Blood's take that in the end spoiler[the children fully embraced only one side of themselves but for me it was a happy ending for them because they found a place where they wanted to be. Anyways while Yuki embraced the human side she was still able to show her wolf side to another human. But I think the movie was saying that they had to ultimately choose one or the other. ]

What I found bitter sweet about the ending is that as I said before the line about

spoiler[Hana living all alone in that big house. So despite all she gave for her children's happiness knowing she raised them well is all she has. She is all alone in the end.]
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NiPah
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:54 pm Reply with quote
Wolf Children's story got a C+, Watamote's story got an A-

I disagree.
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