Forum - View topicMadoka Magica: Rebellion US Premiere
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Chagen46
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My main problem, though I only have the /a/ spoilers to go on, is that this movie just feels...unneeded.
The show ended fine. And hey, as much as I love Madoka, and shit I'd probably watch a second season anyway if it was made, it just feels...artistically bankrupt. Especially if the whole rumor of Urobuchi being forced to change the ending to add sequel bait is true. I'm not even gonna get into how Urobuchi also basically turned it into /u/: The Movie. |
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Fencedude5609
 Posts: 5088 |
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Wow Chagen, what amazing insightful analysis.
Also complaining about the Megucas being lesbian is pretty silly. Also it was very tastefully handled. |
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Chagen46
Posts: 4377 |
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What? Do you want me to write a college thesis on the movie? This is a forum not a literary analysis class.
I don't care about them being lesbians, I care about Gen awkwardly making them lesbians just to pander to otaku. |
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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Which you'd have no problem with if these we're make charas. The Megucas have always been completely gay, it was just made more explicit
Edit: and you haven't even seen the movie, so how the hell would you even know!? |
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Chagen46
Posts: 4377 |
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Yes, because a story about gay magical boys would actually be unique and interesting (and not pandering to otaku), whereas yuri-tinged magical girl shows are a dime-a-dozen.
There is exactly one girl in the original series that could be seriously argued as lesbian and that's Homura (and maybe Kyouko but I think that's stretching). Sayaka explicitly likes guys, Madoka never really talks on the matter, and neither do Mami and Kyouko.
Because I've read spoilers on /a/? This movie practically blew up /a/ when it first aired in Japan. |
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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So suddenly bisexuality isn't a thing, Chagen?
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dm
 Subscriber Posts: 1354 |
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Chagen, I think what Fencedude is trying to tell you is that spoilers on /a/ may not give you the most accurate picture of what the movie is like.
I walked out of the film not sure whether Urobuchi was involved (I had been avoiding all potential spoilers, including talk of the production process). Yes, the ending (if that is what it was --- I'm surprised that Iwakami claims there are no further plans for the series) had an "evil triumphs over good" aspect that I think needs more work to unify it with the series. And "turned it into /u/"? Not really. spoiler[A hand-clasp between Sayaka and Kyouko and "my only regret was leaving you behind"] is pretty weak tea, as far as that goes. I enjoyed the movie quite a lot, but need to see it once or twice more before I commit myself to an opinion about the ending. |
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amagee
 Posts: 333 Location: Orlando, FL |
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This feels a lot like the "Empire Strikes Back" of the series to me. I imagine something will be made to finish it up.
I think a lot of issues people have been having has something to do with the switch of main characters since it does heavily alter the intent of the protagonist. Instead of following Madoka discovering magical girls and becoming one, you follow spoiler[Homura] in this one and you watch her evolution following the events of the original series. One of my favorite things is how it makes you question whether spoiler[Homura's original wish to save Madoka was merely perverted over time or whether her original wish was actually meant through selfishness]. |
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Anton Chigurh
 Posts: 257 Location: Guam |
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I loved the ending, unabashedly. There's little of the film I didn't like, actually. I like it better as a conclusion to the story from the anime.
But this thing that the movie's ending was changed to allow the franchise to continue the story is simply bizarre. THE REBELLION STORY is a perfectly fine endpoint - and a great conclusion to a particular character's arc. |
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Sylontack
 Posts: 193 |
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Don't be mislead by my complaints that I disliked the film. I freaking LOVED it, despite some major issues I had with the last 20 minutes or so. I do see the series and the third film as two separate products but it's still very difficult for my mind to separate them in the long run when I think of the franchise at all, though that's not a major issue because once again I still loved Rebellion. Also from what I read it wasn't exclusively Iwakami that led to spoiler[Urobuchi revising the ending], but rather I read that both he and Shinbo had requested this. More specifically I have read that initially Urobuchi was apprehensive until Shinbo apparently stated spoiler["why not make them enemies"] which was an idea Urobuchi liked. So really I'm twisting my words when I say it was forced and unwanted by Urobuchi, but he was initially wanting to spoiler[End the series with Madokami taking Homura to "heaven"] I've read this in MANY, MANY places. But for the sake of at least showing that I had reason to believe this may be true I'll put up two of the major places I read it (SPOILERS IN LINKS) Trivia Section of the Wiki, I read it elsewhere on the wiki but here is more or less the same information albiet still unsourced It's apparently in the translation of this 3 page interview |
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roseversailles
 Posts: 236 Location: Washington, U.S. |
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Just got back from a screening in Seattle, and oh maaaaan.....
*Brain is dead* I do not have a clue how I feel about that whole thing. The first half seemed fairly slow and unnecessary, and then spoiler[the fight with Mami kicked in and the new revelations started to trickle out, which got me thinking, 'NOW we're getting into the meat of the plot! Great! However, once the actual plot revealed itself I felt the original message of Madoka Magica became twisted. Originally it was one of hope, a 'you are never alone' sort of thing. Here, the message seems to morph into "Love makes you evil/Evil is necessary to balance Good" with the duality of Evil!Homura and Goduka, an element that wasn't even really in play in the original show (I guess an argument can be made that it was with Homura's ruthlessness contrasted to Madoka's peace-making overtures, but you cannot deny it wasn't a focal point!). This movie left a bad taste in my mouth, especially because I wanted to love it (what with the stellar animation/art, some really nice moments between the main cast before everything goes to hell).] Maybe it'll grow on me if I give it some time, but I really feel like the tv show had the better ending; sure, it may've been more open ended and vague, but it was one of hope and possibilities. This (forgive me, Madoka fans!) is a lot like End of Evangelion to me in that it is obtuse, fatalistic, and casts a different light on memories of the show that came before it. I can't say I want to follow the franchise past this, and will look on the show as the "true" ending for myself. Once again, not meaning to offend any fans, maybe I "just don't get it," but I'm also tired and freezing, so hey, perhaps that far off second viewing will yield different results. Random Q: spoiler[Can we officially recognize Homura/Madoka and Sayaka/Kyouko as canon, or was all that just subtext? Curious to hear other opinions on this] |
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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Just got back from the movie. Um, wow. That was fantastic.
And holy shit, that ending. spoiler[How do you top Magical Girl Jesus? Magical Girl Lucifer. I was spoiled on that outfit but I had no context for it. I sure as hell was not expecting Homura to become Satan. And boy that sure is an incredible sequel tease.] On some less spoilery notes, the new transformations were fantastic and that fight around 1/3 to 1/2 way in is going down as one of the all-time greats. Then there was the... cake scene. That sure was something special. |
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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Honestly, the definition of 'subtext' in this context has become pretty twisted. Subtext is just as valid as actual text. Just because a girl doesn't get up on a table, declare she's lesbian and wants to eat pussy all night, doesn't mean she can't be read as, or intended to be read as, lesbian. The movie made it explicit that spoiler[Homura is doing this because she loves Madoka. That was in fact the entire goddamn point of the last act of the movie. Now, people will quibble over whether that mean she loves her 'romantically' or not...but once you've destroyed and rebuilt the entire universe solely for the sake of the person you love, mere sexuality is sorta beside the point. As for Kyouko and Sayaka, the big deal here is Sayaka telling Kyouko that her one regret was leaving her behind. This is a really major development in general, and for Sayaka in particular. Not to mention that the intertwined fingers they had is very much a thing in lesbian subtext in general. Also in both world Homura constructed they are together, not just together but living together. That is all 'subtext', but its not there by accident, just like how the new character who was introduced didn't just happen to be the witch Mami has been shipped with since the revelation about what witches are came out.] |
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kotomikun
Posts: 1205 |
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The idea that the ending was changed to bait a sequel makes a lot of sense to me; there was very little foreshadowing that such an extreme twist was going to happen, and it really wasn't consistent with what had just happened.
spoiler[There were, indeed, many points where Homura was kinda losing it, and she eventually becomes a witch. But the whole sequence after that was everyone else helping Madoka literally pull Homura out of her despair, and it seemed that was over and done with and it was time for the story to wind down. Homura's self-imposed witch transformation was an attempt to protect Madoka and the magical girls she saved, and the others had successfully convinced her she didn't have to sacrifice herself like that. Then, suddenly, she decides to become a demon so that Madoka can be her helpless moe pet? Why? I mean I get the whole "balance of good and evil" idea but this series completely subverted the idea of evil until that point, and the plot gave no indication that it was leading up to such a ridiculous twist. If they wanted to make Homura become the devil, they should have based the story around that instead of throwing it in at the last minute. This clearly wasn't the original plan, and I'm probably not going to consider the ending canonical.] |
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Chagen46
Posts: 4377 |
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That is exactly what I meant by "shoving /u/-pandering into an otherwise good story". This movie goes to absurd lengths to shove all the characters into forced pairings it HURTS (Completely invalidating Sayaka's feelings for Kyousuke spoiler[which were the whole damn reason she fell into despair], solely to make spoiler[KyouxSaya] fans happy, is one of the biggest offenders). Dammit, Gen. You tore your series and your characters to pieces just to milk it further. |
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