Forum - View topicThe Mike Toole Show - Anime Sunday School
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
yotsubafanfan
 Posts: 653 |
|
|||
|
Ehh, I'm not bothered by it and I'm in my church everytime the doors are open! It might give me something to show to my future children to help them understand my religion. AS long as its not offensive I'm all good.
|
||||
|
||||
Bablioteca
 Posts: 51 Location: REPUBLIC OF TEXAS |
|
|||
|
surprisingly the one that gets it pretty damn right on target is maria holic.
there's a really pretty scene that's uncharacteristically serious where the student council president explains her relationship with faith and prayer as an agnostic Japanese in a foreign religious school. i wondered if the writer themselves were catholic. |
||||
|
||||
EricJ
 Posts: 876 |
|
|||
(Just out of curiosity, why IS a cake a specifically Christmas food over there? 
I'd just assumed it was the "Guys don't eat sweets" mentality that saved it for special occasions, and then became rote tradition.)
Culturally, they still associate missionary-Christianity with the "cultural invasion" of Nobunaga-- Resulting in the image of western religion as the stuff of conquerors, taking away the good, earthy traditional folk beliefs that kept a people in touch with the world... (Yes, I'm looking at YOU, Spice & Wolf.  ..."But wouldn't it hurt all those old Shinto gods' feelings, to put them out of work?")
And then, when anime tries to bluff some idea of what Christian doctrine stands for, it usually comes out as a lot of nebulous blissed-out "Love and forgiveness!" in no particular direction. Which makes it easy to portray a western priest or nun as a happily out-of-touch character whose random poetry-spouting of forgiveness and/or martyrdom isn't going to be much help in a crisis. (And thus presenting a safe ridiculed/unthreatening image of "clueless" westerners.) Although the token Catholic exorcist in Ghost Hunt was portrayed as uncharacteristiclally smart, focused and competent, without his Catholic rituals being portrayed as "weird magic powers". Last edited by EricJ on Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:43 pm; edited 2 times in total |
||||
|
||||
GVman
 Posts: 729 |
|
|||
|
When I was younger, some of the stuff would bother me; now, I know Japan'll use Christianity as a spice in their works because it's so foreign to them. I also love laughing at some of the depictions. I love how Christians always wear crosses in anime and, in Angel Cop, Lucifer is a perfectly-acceptable Christian name.
They decided to celebrate on the 25th and adopted many Pagan traditions to help convert the Pagans; I believe the original holiday then was a fertility festival. It's the same reason why we have the Easter bunny. Last edited by GVman on Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||
|
||||
|
EricJ
Posts: 876 |
|
|||
Uh, not to get into theological arguments, Mike, but there WAS no actual Gaspar, Balthazar and Melchior, nor did they come from three different countries like the ones in The Little Drummer Boy: "Magi" were Zoroastrian priests/astronomers from Persia or Babylon--who would have gotten all the royal-court perks--who had interpreted astrological signs as saying that great political significance would happen in David's Bethlehem... And went to test the Zoroastrian prophecy that three messiahs would appear--a king a prophet and a healer--and brought gold, incense and balm to identify which one the baby would reach for, Tibetan-monk style. According to legend, the answer was all three, which threw off their theories a bit. (And no, they didn't bring a mirror, ruby and sword, either.) But yeah, I grew up listening to Amahl & the Night Vistors too. 
|
||||
|
||||
MetalUpa1014
 Posts: 283 Location: USA |
|
|||
That still doesn't make it a Christian holiday. It originally was Pagan, and not Christian. |
||||
|
||||
|
ZiharkXVI
Posts: 348 |
|
|||
|
I have yet to see "In the Beginning," and some of the shows where kids go back to Biblical times, so I can't really speak to those. I can offer an opinion on a lot of the shows that use Christian/Catholic/whatever imagery though.
For the most part, I don't think Christianity is treated with kid gloves in anime. In fact, for the most part, I don't think it's really understood. The influence is certainly there - and because of Japan's history Christian symbols tend to pop up - but what is most striking about anime is it is only symbolic. Some nun is running around just like any other anime character whipping out a "holy" gun or "sacred" sword and the only real difference is one is wearing a costume with a cross necklace and the other is wearing some other goofy get-up. I don't necessarily find these things offensive since at the symbol stage, it's not really Christianity. It's a cross. It's a cathedral. It's a nun. In fact, I watch a lot of shows where those symbols are bandied around constantly. I rather enjoy Blue Exorcist. It might as well be the Japanese version of Hellboy. As a Christian, you tend to know when there is something antithetical to your belief and when there is just something placed in the background. I will say this, however. As a Christian, there are times - fewer and farer between in anime - where you watch something that wants to make a statement about Christianity itself. The symbols, the story, the characters are purposeful in those instances. Probably the best example is Chrono Crusade to me. It was a well done anime in the sense that I actually liked the story. But it kept hitting me over the head with this weird theology Satan and the demons not being evil and tried to flip some basic Christian teachings in a very direct way (I mean, it was backdropped in 1920s America and you couldn't turn around without someone trying to suggest that we have it all wrong). It's a common enough motif in stories, deception of the masses by organized religion or some master group, but in that anime it did make it's statement. And I found the theological mumbo-jumbo in the show to be childish at best, downright boring most of the time, and at times unenjoyably problematic. One has to believe in what the Bible says to really appreciate this, but IF you believe something, it's very difficult to sit through a movie or show that tries to present something completely opposite. I did it, but I can't say as I liked it one bit. Which is odd because I can sit down and watch Blue Exorcist and be totally fine (I chalk it up to that story really having no actual agenda and just using angels, demons, and the Church as interesting characters). Fantasy without the preaching. So, I think as with any show (be it Christian or otherwise), if you are going to get preachy, expect to turn some people off who believe otherwise. If you rail against religion, you probably are not going to be entertaining the religious very much. I doubt many atheist anime watchers would care to hear an actual sermon in an anime (yet to see that though, lol). Bottom line: I think diversity is a good thing and if someone makes a show that sleights Christian beliefs they are free to do so. HOWEVER, if someone makes a show that respects those beliefs, I probably will enjoy it quite a bit more. |
||||
|
||||
rinmackie
 Posts: 1040 Location: in a van! down by the river! |
|
|||
|
Hi, Mike. Like you, I'm probably one of the few people here who have seen Ninja Resurrection. (And the sequel as well, unfortunately.) It was one of the first anime I bought back in the late 90's when I first discovered anime. I thought the story was interesting but that part at the end, yeeesh! As for the sequel, it was so bloody, I didn't even realize what was going on until the end. I felt like like the VCR could have used an exorcism afterwards!
As a lapsed Christian, I usually don't mind how Christianity is portrayed in anime. Like others have said, it's an exotic religion to most Japanese and it's not like we've done any better in our portrayals of Eastern religions. I'm really into Hellsing myself and while I know some people see it as anti-Catholic, I don't consider it to be, because I feel Kouta Hirano is merely playing with stereotypes and is not really trying to bash any particular religious group. As you well know, the whole thing is over-the-top and I don't think it's meant to be taken that seriously. Also, it's obvious to me that Alucard thinks of Father Anderson as more of a rival, not an enemy. After all, they're both vampire hunters, they just work for different groups. |
||||
|
||||
ShyViolet
 Posts: 12 |
|
|||
|
It hasn't ever bothered me, though I always thought it was very odd. The thing that makes me head-tilt the most is the way they dress the nuns. Rosette in Chrono Crusade especially, along with the women in Trinity Blood (Noelle, what are you wearing?? Though Cardinal Caterina's outfit is gorgeous...).
The Gun-Toting Priest/Badass Preacher is probably one of my favorite tropes in anime, mostly because it's so unlike any priest I've ever met and makes me giggle. |
||||
|
||||
Animerican14
 Posts: 963 Location: Saint Louis, MO |
|
|||
While certain festive aspects may have been adapted from pagan traditions, you really can't call it the same thing. Heck, they celebrate different things entirely-- which should make sense, since "Christmas" is a word originating from the term "Christ's Mass." Whatever similar pagan festivities helped originate the traditional meaning of Christmas, that doesn't make it any less legitimate as a holiday. It's been meant to celebrate Jesus' birth for the past several hundred years. Read up on Christmas, why don'tcha? If you're such a stickler for 'respecting original intentions of a holiday' from well over a millennia ago, I imagine that you're up in a tizzy over how commercialized it's become and its seeming deviation from the celebration of Christ's birth over the past several decades... Or maybe not; perhaps you're celebrating this commercialization as a 'return' to more heavily secular practices. 
Last edited by Animerican14 on Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:08 pm; edited 2 times in total |
||||
|
||||
Joe Carpenter
 Posts: 503 |
|
|||
I remember that, it was nice that the show decided to specifically address the Christian elements of the series instead of simply using it as window trappings |
||||
|
||||
|
rothswings
Posts: 2 |
|
|||
|
Actually, in Saint Tail, it's actually not totally incorrect that Seira has a habit. I've never seen or heard of it before, but from the picture, it appears to be a white habit. I recently met a nun who said that when you're in training to become a nun, you wear a white veil (though you really only wear it during Mass). Maybe they took that and made the veil into a habit that she always wears.
I was excited to see In The Beginning on the list, I own all of the episodes on tape and I used to watch it all the time when I was younger. It's how I know most of my Bible trivia haha. It's too bad you can no longer buy it; I would love to get it on DVD. I guess I could just take my video tapes and get them converted onto discs if I really wanted to. Anyway, I feel so awesome whenever an anime has Christian elements in it. It's just nice that in this world where Christians can be discriminated they still put it in some anime as a non-negative thing. Last edited by rothswings on Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||
|
||||
|
Macross1999
Posts: 1 |
|
|||
|
I enjoy finding Christian elements/symbolism in anime. The two biggest influences of my life is my Christian faith and my love of anime :D I try to look deep down into every anime series that I watch and find Christian messages in them, its a passion of mine. You will be quite surprised in what you'll find. Watch Witch Hunter Robin, considering the content its actually quite respectful to the Christian faith. Quoting Amon he said "God abandons nobody!" SPOILER, SPOILER: Although there's also a harsh message saying that nobody is innocent. Both the STNJ and the "witches" were both at fault.
I also believe that Japanese media is actually more respectful to Christianity than Hollywood is. If Mel Gibson wanted to make "Passion of the Christ" as an anime, I'm sure an anime studio would have taken it before a Hollywood studio would accept it because after all there is Superbook and The Flying House which are actual Christian anime series. The thing that upsets me is that its hard to find fellow Christians that like anime as much as I do, I usually have to keep it hush hush(sigh) |
||||
|
||||
Top Gun
 Posts: 4575 |
|
|||
Oh lord, those hats...I mean they were the least of the series' problems, but still, I couldn't get through one of those Vatican scenes while keeping a straight face.
As a practicing Catholic, the various anime takes on Christianity I've seen usually wind up making me chuckle more than anything else. I'm not really the type to take offense at any fictionalized versions of my faith (outside of straight-up hateful bashing), especially when it's merely being used as an exotic setting by creators who most likely have little to no personal experience with it. It's no different than how Western fiction has treated Eastern culture and mythology for decades, if not centuries. And hell, sometimes anime surprises you with something genuine: the episode of Samurai Champloo with the fake relative of Francis Xavier really stuck out for me because of how it incorporated the actual issues surrounding Christianity in Japan at that time. I'll have to take a look at this In the Beginning, too; a down-to-earth take on the Bible by no less than Osamu Dezaki definitely sounds like it's worth a watch. |
||||
|
||||
Myaow
 Posts: 1068 |
|
|||
Interesting! In volume 1 of the manga, the author Megumi Tachikawa included a little note about how a reader who was in training to become a nun wrote in to say that Seira realistically wouldn't have her habit yet and in fact wouldn't be allowed to hear confessions. Tachikawa's response is essentially "oops... oh well!" Kamikaze Kaitou Jeanne also had the heroine committing burglary in the name of THE LORD. Weird!! |
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group