Forum - View topicThe Mike Toole Show - Anime Sunday School
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unready
 Posts: 399 Location: Illinois, USA |
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Um, it can be found online. Brace yourself for having to wait longer for salvation. It's not Cowboy Bebop with good yuks. If I didn't know it was made by Shinichiro Watanabe, Dai Sato, and Keiko Nobumoto, I wouldn't have guessed it.
A Certain Magial Index. Sure, Index is an Anglican nun, not a Catholic one, but the anime still treats her like a foreign version of a miko. A Certain Magial Index II has Catholic nuns, though, and they get the same treatment. In the post-apocalyptic future, there's Trinity Blood, where Catholic nuns and priests are not only hot, they want to hump each other like crazy. Oh, and some priests are gun-slinging androids. I suppose a worthy comparison for Buddhists would be Shikabane Hime, which has hyper-sexual priests (male and female), including a priest who tries to rape his hime. So Christianity isn't the only religion distorted by animation. Just to be clear, this post isn't an indictment of any of the above anime. (Well, maybe it is for Space Dandy.) It's just some observations. |
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tobeast777
Posts: 68 |
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I am a very strong Christian, so since you asked I thought I'd answer
Christianity in anime is something that I am happy to see. I love Trinity Blood and how Abel Nightroad has a constant underlying search for forgiveness and repentance throughout the series. Even when it's only one particular episode that shows a strong Christian message, I'm like awesome!!! Trigun had a moment like that when Wolfwood met his end(sorry if spoiler, but if you haven't seen Trigun by now, come on). When i see shows completely change things about Christianity and call them facts to create a unique world for the story I believe that as long as other people realize like I do that it's just a made up show, then, I don't really have a problem with it. It does bother me a little bit when shows put Jesus in a role of being all buddy buddy with the devil or buddah though. I mean some things can be used for storytelling but that's just kind of ridiculous. If anything though the ones that actually do upset me are shows that claim to be accurate representations of the Bible, that aren't. Going outside the realm of anime would be the American TV show from last year "The Bible." While many things were very accurate others were completely false and misleading. Basically if you are going to say this is what the Bible says then the Bible better say it. But if you are going to use Christian themes or ideas just to make a unique story I'm cool with it. |
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gridsleep
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Jesus crossing the Delaware. I ran out of breath laughing.
It's surprising even in Japan that they can get Joseph to look kind of like an Aramaic Jew but Mary and Jesus look like they have more right to spend Christmas in Connecticut than Barbara Stanwyck and Dennis Morgan. Except for the long hair, of course. That would have gone over like a lead balloon in "Stillmeadow" even after Woodstock. |
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vanfanel
 Posts: 1242 |
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Thanks for asking! I really do appreciate it! Like others have said, I recognize that nine times out of ten, the producers have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to depicting Christianity in anime, and as long as they're not deliberately trying to be nasty, I take it in stride. I'm always happy to see a work of fiction (regardless of the medium) use the Bible positively to make a point ("The Caves of Steel" by Isaac Asimov -- who was an atheist -- is a good example); however, I don't seek out "Christian" films/anime/novels/etc, because they are typically awful -- when the impetus for writing a story is to preach, to convert, and to convince, the message almost always feels forced and awkward, and seldom makes for good storytelling. So rather than seek out "Christian stories" I'd rather seek out "stories by Christians," where the author is expressing what is in his own heart sincerely and personally, and just happens to be a Christian -- in those cases, there's no need to force it; the religious aspect comes out naturally because it's simply a part of who the author is. When it comes to anime/manga, neither of the above types of storytelling is all that common. Still, anime and manga have an advantage all their own, oddly enough because of the fact that Christianity has such a small presence in Japan. Mike pointed out how Superbook felt "unforced" compared to other productions, and that reminded me of Kamui Fujiwara's manga of the Old Testament, which (based on a partial skimming, at least) appears to simply adapt the source without trying to sell an agenda either way. An American comic based on Genesis would in all likelihood be either a parody or a tract. But by simply adapting -- and not putting oneself and one's hobbyhorses between the reader and the story -- it felt like more of the beauty and power of the original was free to come through. Japan can do this in a way that America seldom can, because Japan isn't caught up in the polarized believer-vs-nonbeliever angst that we have now in the USA. |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8459 Location: Penguinopolis |
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They cut a lot of that out, probably due to the little weight it has in the overall narrative, distilling parts of it and inserting it back in. Though, arguably, the second movie is weaker due to the overabundance of said trimming. Father Nintani was still a character, but sort of shifted into the background sooner than in the manga. I wish they had at least kept in the part about how Father Nintani came to faith through encountering the person who eventually became the Pope, who was helping deliver vaccines to the Friend's virus. I don't think much of the papacy, or indeed, organized religion in general, but I always enjoyed that part of the manga.
I doubt this. Show me where this happened to a student. Now, a teacher, as part of the staff of the school, cannot lead grace, as it is the same as a public school endorsing a religion. But I doubt a student would be held to the same standard. |
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thenix
 Posts: 265 |
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That weird jesus cartoon my religious aunt gave me on vhs in the late 80's was anime? Well looks like my first anime wasn't what I thought it was...
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vashfanatic
 Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
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Well, as a religious studies/East Asian studies double major who wrote part of her thesis on Aum Shinrikyo... 
New religions (Shin-shuukyou) back about two hundred years in Japan. One of the oldest new religions, for example, is Tenrikyo, which claims to have been revealed to a housewife in the early 1800s. Other shin-shuukyou are really more new movements than new religions. Soukai Gakkai, a lay movement in Nichiren Buddhism, is one example. They're controversial because of their political involvement (the Komeito party was basically founded to be their political wing, though it has reorganized to try to stay distant enough in accordance with the constitution). But you are right that new religions exploded in a big way after the abolishing of State Shinto. After the Meiji restoration, all religious groups had to declare themselves as Shinto or Buddhist and be under a state control. The American-written Constitution of 1946 massively expanded religious liberty, making it very easy to incorporate as a religion and granting religions a lot of new freedoms, a right which many "founders" have been accused of abusing. Needless to say, those laws were changed a lot after Aum Shinrikyou murdered a lot of people. The usual theory is that new religions and new religious movements tend to develop and thrive during times of rapid change and crisis, when people are disillusioned with established religions and willing to look around at other options. Some attribute the new religions of the early 1800s to the cholera epidemics that swept Japan during that time. Obviously the end of a state religion, with a deity renouncing his divinity, is a big shake-up in organized religion. There is definitely a lot of material available on shin-shuukyou in English, especially if you have a university library in your area. I don't know if you want specific titles...? |
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Tuskus
 Posts: 26 |
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I remember watching Superbook in Sunday school when I was a kid. That shit was cash.
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 7580 Location: Wales |
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Violence between Catholics and Protestants is a reality in my own lifetime, a short hop over the water in Ireland. Terms like "IRA" and "semtex" were a staple of the news when I was a child.
I remember Superbook existing and I can vaguely picture a rental VHS tape of it, but I have not memories of watching it. All I can actually remember seeing from that period is Hanna Barbera's Greatest Adventure. And Treasures of the Snow, of course. |
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ChibiKangaroo
 Posts: 2941 |
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I have had a feeling that recently, a lot of anime has used Christianity just as a kind of meaningless prop to make a story more exotic. I do think that it was used in a more interesting way in shows like Trinity Blood, but more recent examples like Madoka and Sunday Without God have, I think, simply grabbed onto Christian themes/imagery and used them without bringing any real substance into the work. I am Catholic and although I am not really offended by anime utilizing Christian imagery, I would prefer if it was being used in a more meaningful way.
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TheSeventhSense
 Posts: 77 |
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So that's why my middle school never got past the first volume of that series! |
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PurpleWarrior13
 Posts: 2024 |
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I'm not religious, but it's interesting to see how it's depicted in anime. Didn't Fullmetal Alchemist deal with religion and Christianity too?
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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FMA touched on it, but it never really addressed it directly. And by touched, I mean some vague references in a few places. Even the Brotherhood version of "God" isn't really the Christian God. But FMA did talk about Religion in a more general way, particularly in the events in Leore, in Ishval, and "God" (or The Truth). I'd say that the beliefs of the people of Ishval are fairly close to how Christians view God, but there aren't a whole lot of details about their beliefs. |
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StudioToledo
 Posts: 847 Location: Toledo, U.S.A. |
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I did see "Little Dogs on The Prairie" and thought that was OK if only for the clever writing emmployed (it's definately one of those the parents would get a kick out of watching with their kids and not be bored to death at). http://fancymonkey.com/Web/LDogs/Series.htm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IqIwMZIRuA
I feel none of it I have to say as a fallen Catholic. I grew up on this crap and it warped me for life already! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTN0VW86jyA
No he didn't, it never needs to be mentioned again! We've had enough!
I recall watching it on a local Christian station in my town in the late 90's when they managed to get their operation funded after a decade. It seemed like because of CBN's commitment to SuperBook and Flying House, it gave them and some other Christian broadcasters some clout to pick up several unrelated anime to air over the past 30 years including some of Nippon Animation's familiar "World Masterpiece Theater" titles. Here's one I use to see. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHsfJM6DGW4
I guess there isn't a thing yet for kids to leave a plate of milk and cookies for Santa yet. 
And yet a lot of us still like our Jesus to look the way renaissance painters have put oil to canvas half a millennium ago. We just sorta except it just like we accept our Japanese anime characters to appear as "white" as we are. (meaning, stop thinking about it, it's just a show, just relax) |
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thewizardninja
Posts: 43 |
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The difference with Majutsu no Index is that none of those people are presented as your average nuns. It makes a clear divide between regular members of the Church (and the author makes it quite clear they are the vast, vast majority) and members of the super secret "underground" magical side. |
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