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Noragami + Aragoto (TV).


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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:23 am Reply with quote
Arkov wrote:
Except it isn't unnecessarily lame as it is emotionally consistent with the character.


That's part of the problem. We've already gone through a long arc where Yato's "say nothing" policy contributed to the problem of controlling Yukine. So yes, let's give the writers 10 out of 10 for showing zero character development for Yato.

[EDIT: Be cool, man. -TK]
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Arkov



Joined: 15 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:46 am Reply with quote
Knoepfchen wrote:
I agree with you, Blood-. By the end of the episode they made it clear that Hiyori is in danger of spoiler[losing much more than her memory of Yato and Yukine], and it's become obvious they have to act in order so save her. But in the beginning, when it was just about Hiyori spoiler[remembering Yato], when Yukine tried very hard on his own to help her spoiler[remember], Yato, again, chose to stay passive and do nothing in order to help the situation either way. Yes, this is emotionally consistent with the character's behavior from past episodes. But that doesn't make it less frustrating?

It seems Nora and Rabo want to spoiler[get Yato back the way he was so that they can all go on a new killing spree together]? Charming. I wonder what changed Yato from spoiler[the merciless warrior we saw in the flashbacks to the much kinder and gentler individual he is now]. It will most certainly involve the dead regalia. I also wonder what helped Rabo become this powerful again. It seems he was almost forgotten for quite a while. As for Yukine, he is developing very well, I think. He is child a child, easily angered and frightened, but he's showing some desire for protecting of both Hiyori and Yato that I really like. He will likely have to spoiler[put his life on the line in order to save Hiyori] in the coming episode.


But Yato did try to help through spoiler[consulting Tenjin. Tenjin's advice was to let it go, as that would ultimately fulfil Yato's deal with Hiyori and, according to Tenjin, make her happy. This was before Yato knew that she would lose more of her memory;] so far as he was aware, this was the best possible outcome for everyone except himself.

Seeing that it's obvious that spoiler[Yato cares for Hiyori, he chose to make himself unhappy in order for her to receive the best possible outcome. This led to his depressive state, where he dismissed Yukine's desire to get Hiyori's memory back and didn't properly explain why. However, it was totally unnecessary for him to explain why at that point in time. Moreover, it is completely logical for someone in that frame of mind to wish to talk as little as possible.] At any rate, what he said was likely more to convince himself than convince Yukine.

It's pretty obvious Yato is dealing with some serious shit, so I find his actions perfectly reasonable given his state of mind.spoiler[ Oh, and as soon as he realises Hiyori is actually in serious danger, he becomes motivated to retrieve her memories. He was willing to shoulder the burden when it was just him suffering (and remember, another key reason for not fighting Rabo is that Yukine could very well end up dead), but as soon as that threat extends to Hiyori he's prepared to jump into action.]
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Tony K.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:20 am Reply with quote
This post is to tell you I cleaned things up.

Let bygones be bygones and don't resort to Chagen-isms (i.e. condescension and personal insults). You guys are better than that.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:16 am Reply with quote
Tony K. wrote:
This post is to tell you I cleaned things up.

Let bygones be bygones and don't resort to Chagen-isms (i.e. condescension and personal insults). You guys are better than that.


Actually, I'm not. Wink I KID, I KID!!!
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Tyna



Joined: 04 Mar 2014
Posts: 16
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:36 pm Reply with quote
GokuMew2 wrote:
Reading everyone's comments, I have to wonder (again) if analyzing anime like this is any fun. I mean, it seems like some people are watching this series just to nitpick. If you don't like it or have problems with how things develop then why not just stop watching instead of writing week after week about what you find wrong with the show?


I don't think they are trying to nitpick, or they don't enjoy the anime. I think people are trying to keep the conversation going because they enjoy the anime. It's a lot easier to stop watching an anime you dislike it than post pages on a forum.
If it weren't for people like those I wouldn't see a random door on a building and wonder where is that from...hehe Laughing
But that's my two cents.

I very much enjoy the anime thus far. The begining of episode 11 was amazing Smile


Last edited by Tyna on Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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Knoepfchen



Joined: 13 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:40 pm Reply with quote
I absolutely like this show. If I didn't, I would have stopped watching and taken my leave from this thread. I see no point in spending time with things I don't enjoy. There are very things I'd be willing to simply praise and not put criticism where I consider valid, though. (Also, it would be rather boring if we'd all just agree on everything, wouldn't it.)
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Agent355



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
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Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:22 am Reply with quote
I'm only up to ep 10 as I'm watching the show on Hulu a week after it airs, but I found the discussion about Shinki/Regalias fascinating. Shinki probably have some freedom of thought, otherwise Kazuma, Bishamon's Shinki, wouldn't have been able to risk his life for Yato's purification, because Yato is Bishamon's enemy.

Yukine's arc: I'm not sure how I feel about Yato being depicted as a kind, selfless father figure who is willing to endure the pains of his "son". Yato didn't really do anything to help the boy emotionally, and it really bothers me that he discouraged Hiyori from getting involved/helping Yukine when she expressed motherly concern for him. I kind of think that the show wants us to admire Yato for enduring the situation (and that it's meant to be a commentary on how a "good father" would act), when he didn't do anything to help Yukine, ignored his concerns, didn't explain anything and didn't want the "mother figure" (Hiyori) to help, either.
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CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:23 am Reply with quote
Why is people getting so hung up over Yato being too frustrated to want to talk to Yukine in ONE scene of less than five seconds when Yukine himself was so precious for at least half of the episode? I wanted to hug him and his spoiler[dorky drawing of him, Yato and Hiyori becoming friends]. It brought tears to my eyes, seeing how far he's come
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:02 am Reply with quote
CrowLia wrote:
Why is people getting so hung up over Yato being too frustrated to want to talk to Yukine in ONE scene of less than five seconds when Yukine himself was so precious for at least half of the episode? I wanted to hug him and his spoiler[dorky drawing of him, Yato and Hiyori becoming friends]. It brought tears to my eyes, seeing how far he's come


Who cares how long a scene is? When a show displays a character making exactly the same mistake as before - i.e. showing zero character growth - the length of time becomes irrelevant. Well, not totally irrelevant because it is true that I'm happy they didn't draw that element out, but it's still there. Sorry, I know when people are ga-ga for a show they can't stand to hear others be less than, "zomg, it's all wonderful" but that's just the way it goes.
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CrowLia



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:24 am Reply with quote
I love this show, but I too felt Yukine's angsty arc was dragged on forever and Yato's actions weren't quite justified in the end, but nitpicking on one tiny scene and interpreting it as the character having no growth at all is a whole different thing.

Yato cares about Hiyori, that's plain and clear. Wspoiler[hen he first learned she forgot about him he did everything he could think of to juggle her memories. He even went to consult with Tenjin about it. Tenjin told him to leave it alone since it would solve Hiyori's problem and ultimately make her happy. Yato decided to follow that advice because he cares about Hiyori and wants her to be happy, but he himself was angry and frustrated because he didn't want to be cut off from Hiyori's life (hence why he didn't listen to Tenjin's advice the first time, before Hiyori's memory loss).]

So he runs into Yukine, who's also trying to fix everything and tells him spoiler[to leave the matter alone, then storms off because he really doesn't want to leave things like that but thinks it's the right thing to do. But it pisses him off and saddens him that it is, and like people who're angry and sad tend to do, doesn't really want to talk about it. Unlike in the previous arc, explaining it to Yukine wouldn't really serve any purpose, there was no urgent matter to be solved and Yato just really wanted to be alone with his frustration.] Seriously this is what normal people do.

It's most likely Yato would've ended explaining things to Yukine sooner than later, but at that specific moment he was too busy trying to convince himself about this being the right thing to even attempt to explain it to Yukine. And the moment he realizes spoiler[he was wrong, after Nora tells him what awaits Hiyori, the first person he goes to is Yukine, and the first thing he does is reassure him: "we're definitely going to get Hiyori's memories back".]

So it does boggle the mind that one scene that is perfectly consistent with both the character and the situation is overblowingly interpreted as the character having zero progression. I'd call it the opposite. It shows how muchspoiler[ Yato has come to care about Hiyori that it hurts him so much to have to part with her but is still willing to do it if it's the best for her; and the overall episode was a proof of how closer he's gotten to Yukine, their interactions show that both have come to trust each other a lot and Yato stopped fighting when he saw Yukine was in danger.]
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:18 am Reply with quote
Yes, yes, Arkov has already been over the "his refusal to take two seconds to properly explain a situation that would have given Yukine some understanding" is perfectly consistent with his character. I've never argued that not explaining things isn't a central facet of Yato's personality.

I also accept that it is not unbelievable that a person would blow off taking the two seconds to explain something that would help another person have a better understanding of a situation if they are in a funk.

None of that erases my groaning and seeing yet another example of Yato not explaining something to Yukine. I don't care if it is consistent with his previous behaviour, I don't care if it doesn't violate a principle of unbelievability - it's just stupid to me. You don't have a problem with it. Okay, that's fine. I don't see it as my duty to convince you to feel the way I feel. You however don't seem share that philosophy.

Just because you feel a certain way in no way invalidates how I feel about the same event.
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Agent355



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:04 am Reply with quote
I haven't seen the scene yet, but it seems to me to be another example of Yato only thinking of himself and not considering Yukine's feelings at all. Sure, Yato is hurt by Hiyori's memory loss, but doesn't he realize that Yukine would be hurt just as much? And Yukine doesn't know *why* its happening or why it might be a good thing. The kid just nearly killed Yato with his negative emotions, you'd think Yato would consider his feelings a little.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:06 am Reply with quote
That's the way I look at it, too. By the way, just in case the notion has gotten lost in the shuffle, I like this show. It has done some things that I'm not personally onboard with, but I still enjoy it.
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Yttrbio
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:17 am Reply with quote
I think a a lot of us are just sick of completely unnecessary and forced drama that arises from people not talking to each other for no good reason.

My big problem with this arc is that they've sidelined the character I consider the heart of the show and instead are using her as a damsel in distress.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11306
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:43 pm Reply with quote
I have to agree about the damsel in distress comment. Why is non-canon stuff usually so off-key? Don't the mangaka get any input? It's like they farm alternate storylines out to interns.

Anyway, if this doesn't get a second season, I can live with that ending. Way too much unresolved stuff though. I'll miss this so much.

I guarantee you that there are people out there right now getting their favorite regalia names tattooed on their shoulder...
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