Forum - View topicAnswerman - Suspicious Behavior
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Guile
Posts: 595 |
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Of course, though the number of American films top grossing in Japan is noticeable.
I'm not sure what evidence are you basing this on. Japanese TV ratings and DVD sales suggest otherwise. Even their respective movies flopped in Japan, so even the movie market could not aid their causes. In the Simpsons case, I would say they are more known for their brief stint as the mascots of a drink called C.C. Lemon back during the early 2000s. However, they were only the mascots for about a year before the company moved onto a different mascot. I'm not sure how many people in Japan would still remember them, especially younger people.
Knowing and liking/popular are two separate things. Though I doubt how many people in Japan truly know about anything that isn't Disney/Pixar characters. Statistically, there has to be a few people, but there is not really a market for western animation in Japan like there is for anime in the west. Especially with viewers over the age of 5 which is the primary market for western animation in Japan.
Spirit Away's victory seemed to have numerous factors in favor of it. It was, to put it bluntly, a fluke, and one I suspect will ever happen again. I suspect there was some angle towards it's victory at the time, especially given the time period where Disney were perhaps trying to cash in on the anime craze in America of the early 2000s. Today, however, there is little reason to award a Japanese film. |
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ljaesch
Posts: 299 Location: Enumclaw, WA |
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Sorry, but I have to nitpick here. Actually, it hasn't quite been "decades" since a song from a musical cracked the Billboard Hot 100 Top 40 chart. On the chart dated December 17, 2005, "Seasons of Love" by the cast of the film version of Rent peaked at #33. So it's only been a little over eight years. |
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Penguin_Factory
 Posts: 732 Location: Ireland |
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As much as it would be cool to see an anime movie win another Oscar, I loved Frozen so much I hope it gets the award.
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Guile
Posts: 595 |
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Your comparison would have more merit if television was the primary method people watched anime in the west, but it is not. It it washed primarily through fansubs, online streaming site, and home video releases. It is worth pointing out sites like Crunchyroll do not really exist for western animation in Japan, nor are fansubs much of a thing. In fact, most of the Japanese fansubs I see people cite are done by westerners themselves and only manage to garner a few thousand hits at best. You also are ignoring the culture surrounding these mediums. The west has hundreds of conventions dedicated towards anime, but Japan does not have conventions dedicated towards American cartoons. Nor is there a large fan community for them like there is for anime in the west. Comiket is virtually devoid of American animation, outside a few foreigners who might be present there. I believe that simply is because animation is not America's forte. When you see anime creators cite American influence in their work, what do you usually hear? You hear about Hollywood movies like Alien, Terminator, Blade Runner, and other films which may have influenced their works. You may also hear music as a big influence, for example Cowboy Bebop and Beck's numerous homages to American bands. However, very few to no directors have cited American animation as their influence. I have yet to hear any anime director comment how he was heavily influenced by shows such as Spongebob, Avatar, Adventure Time, Phineas and Ferb, Total Drama Island, or other cartoons. The only real example one can cite is Panty and Stocking, which was a parody of American animation. And given Panty and Stocking's failure in Japan, I believe it says a lot about how indifferent Japan is to the appeal of western animation. So I'm afraid the burden of proof does rest on your shoulders if you are so adamant at proving that western television animation is so big in Japan, when there is plenty of evidence that seems to suggest otherwise. |
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enurtsol
 Posts: 14761 |
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There's some. From Tokyo resident Sam P:
Also PPG at its heyday. Over the years many N. American shows make it on J-TV at some point, so there's less need but to wait. Unfortunately not vice versa, as not many J-TV shows ever make it outside, even though there's a lot more made, so there's much more need. And sadly, there's nothing like Crunchyroll for anything in Japan, even of their own J-shows. Japan is behind the times with regards to streaming and putting shows online. Even Hulu took so long to get there, and even then it pales in comparison to other parts of the world. J-media companies are wary how they could money off the interwebs. It took Sony Music so long to put stuff on iTunes.
And there's one that just made national news, by a 9-yr-old girl: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/trending-now/9-year-old-girl-sings-amazing-rendition-of--frozen--song-192010256.html Her song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8IW1iFJJgI The original: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEKLFS-aKcw |
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Guile
Posts: 595 |
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That example is the reason why I added that addendum to that statement, as I was sure someone would try to use those My Little Pony episode on niconico as evidence. Though as that poster even pointed out, they only received a couple thousand views which would not do well for Zeebach's claim.
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GATSU
Posts: 15304 |
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Guile:
They're still on Japanese tv, so someone's watching them.
You sure?
The "angle" is Miyazaki's legacy. The Academy recognized it, and that's all there is to it.
And yet, there are more Japanese films in recent years which have been nominated and awarded by the Academy, than when Kurosawa was alive. |
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samuelp
Industry Insider
Posts: 2231 Location: San Antonio, USA |
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The Japanese fansub scene has died off a lot, too, because of... gasp, the growth of legal streaming options in Japan! Hulu has opened in Japan and there are also a lot more options for renting western shows with subs than before, with less of a delay from their airing in the west (it's more like 6 months to a year now instead of years). The primary western things that were fansubbed in Japan were shows which had 1 or 2 seasons on Japanese TV, and then were cancelled or took a long time for the later seasons to come out officially. People would fansub them primarily. South Park is the perfect example of this since the first few seasons were dubbed and aired on TV but after that it wasn't successful enough to be officially distributed in Japan and fansubs took up the slack. Other good examples are sci-fi shows... I believe I saw like, star-gate atlantis fansubs into Japanese. The original Stargate was on TV dubbed and it has a cult following, but the sequel series took a long time to come over. Star Trek shows _usually_ come out pretty soon but if my memory serves me I think Deep Space 9 took extra long to come out and that got fansubbed prior to the rental DVD release. But like I said, this is all from 5-10 years ago. These days most anything that's popular is available fairly quickly with official Japanese on _some_ platform. The only remaining vestige of "fansubbing" I've seen is people who will translate western video games before they get released in Japan. But that's normally combined with "let's play" videos so it's not really fansubbing. |
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eragon2890
Posts: 159 |
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Just one thing... why the heck whould I ever limit myself in what shows I choose to watch (especially anime, which I absolutely love to death) simply because whatever company who´s name is on the box is in sea with some Christian whoever??? I mean I know and despise his ideas just as much as anyone else, especially the ban-porn part (I want to decide for myself whether or not I Want to watch some porn and would prefer the government to STFU about it, thank you very much!), but I won´t let it limit the kind *anime* I watch *gasp*...
Just like I mean, everyone is allowed to have their opinion off course, but I love ecchi and moe anime, and also action, and if there is a show I like then I am gonna watch it and fanboy over it no matter what the rest of the world think of it or what the reviewers have to say for whatever reason... my life, after all, so it´s my right to watch whatever I Want and enjoy it with my friends. I am really getting a bit fed-up with all the PC discussion happening over the past few months, and quite frankly, literally *ALL* the people I know, and I know a lot going to every con and being a member of two clubs, agree 100% with me on that. :-/ |
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PurpleWarrior13
 Posts: 2025 |
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Hearing all this great stuff about Frozen REALLY makes me wish it was animated in (or a style resembling) the traditional style as originally planned. I think it would have revived it. As much as I loved The Princess and the Frog, I do think Disney could have done better than that.
With that said, you never know, but I would bet money on Frozen winning the statue. |
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Jen Bigby
 Posts: 112 |
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Sadly all the animation studios are gone and everyone is being trained in CG these days. Schools are all teaching computer animation, not traditional. There's no way traditional animation can make a come back outside of Japan if the education and market isn't there  America's industry is too far down the slippery slope to climb back up it. People need to understand the American industry is dead and isn't coming back. It's unrealistic to still have hope.
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Mister Ryan Andrews
 Posts: 219 |
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@samuelp
Doesn't that just kinda prove the point of Western animation not being very viable in Japan? I've seen a few people elsewhere use South Park as an example of "OMG it's super popular, it has a huge following and one of the most popular shows there, it's bigger than, like, Sazae-san and One Piece combined man, honest!' and then, oh wait, it's not being aired anymore? Whoopsie. I guess this is just one of those times 'common knowledge' is actually completely made up stuff that keeps being regurgitated over and over despite zero proof to support it. I always take people's claim of cartoons in Japan with a grain of salt.. most of the time it seems like those people are just desperate to prove that our stuff is anyway at all relevant to them. "H-honest guys, they totally love Regular Show, they rank it right up there with Shin-chan.. it's true! No I wont be providing any proof to my claim so don't ask, but just trust me" |
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Mr. Oshawott
 Posts: 6773 |
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If that's the case, that's a sad predicament for the U.S. animation industry.
However, I wonder... When has traditional animation become an obsolete concept in the U.S.? |
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yuna49
 Posts: 3804 |
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When people couldn't afford to raise their families by working as pen-and-ink illustrators after computers arrived on the scene. Japanese studios, in contrast, have held their labor costs down by off-shoring jobs to Korea and China. I also think deep cultural differences between Japan and the U.S. matter greatly here. Japan has a millennial-old history of prizing art and illustration that America has never had. Hand-drawn manga have enormously greater cultural influence in Japan than comics do here. American popular culture seems more a creature of the movies and jazz with much weaker roots in traditional art forms like drawing and painting.
Does that mean there has been a growth in English translation capacity in Japan? I've wondered for a while whether the producers would take over the task of English subtitling and start to supplant distributors like Crunchyroll and Funimation with global streaming services of their own. There's a strong tendency to vertical integration in an industry where the value lies in rights. What does CR bring to the table that Aniplex cannot? Isn't Daisuki the future of anime streaming, not Crunchyroll? |
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samuelp
Industry Insider
Posts: 2231 Location: San Antonio, USA |
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I wasn't arguing a particular point, just stating facts. My opinion is that modern western cartoons outside of Disney/Pixar properties are quite niche in Japan. The big stuff is big, but the cable shows and TV cartoons for the most part are minimally exposed in Japan. Especially any western animation aimed at an older audience is pretty much DOA in Japan outside of a tiny western cartoon fandom. Like you said, South Park and its mild success was an exception. Even the Simpsons isn't on normal TV anymore here (maybe some station? Not sure). There was a bit of controversy when they tried to replace the voice actors when the movie came out though. And more recent cartoons like Family Guy or any of the original Adult Swim cartoons have literally zero exposure to Japan. Take a look for example at what I think is the only official Japanese language page for Family Guy: http://video.foxjapan.com/tv/familyguy/ Looks like they put out a box set of 13 episodes (for $120~) in 2006 and that's it. Recent successful western cartoons in Japan have been Powerpuff Girls, Ben-ten, and most recently MLP which is doing decent. But it's just a handful of shows. There are plenty of Marvel/DC fans especially recently with all the hollywood movies, but it doesn't translate into being fans of their animated series. |
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