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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:16 pm Reply with quote
Well, I'm supportive of Aniplex's semi-expensive models ($100 for a movie with some great extras, alongside a $60 or so normal edition with only a few extras sounds pretty reasonable, even if it's more than usual in the West), but when it comes to licensing and watching stuff legally... What happens to fans who can't actually purchase half a series for several hundred dollar prices and legal streaming options dwindle (when their contracts run out or are just simply taken off over time)? Doesn't that make it at least somewhat reasonable for them to watch a series using fansubs online?

I mean, this isn't exactly a problem yet, so solutions might appear in the future, but I really wonder what those at Aniplex think about their more extreme pricing models in the West. They're selling them quite limited, with no alternative smaller releases like they did for Madoka. They don't expect every fan to afford them or buy them, and it seems to me almost as if they do it particularly BECAUSE these series are already popular as a result of people watching fansubs online. Are they taking advantage of this? Does that mean they indirectly support a positive feedback system between fansubs and their own releases? Obviously, no company would ever explicitly admit that, but I really have to wonder if I'm misunderstanding something about their pricing model and expectations...
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blaizevincent



Joined: 16 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:34 pm Reply with quote
I would be so happy if Ippo got a release from Discotek. Given they are able to make their current model work considering the age of some of their titles then I'm hopeful that its a real possibility.
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geishageek
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Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:48 pm Reply with quote
I have the more famous trio of collectors art boxes from Funimation; the wooden Basilisk art box, the fold out Trinity Blood box and the awesome lift off LE Box for Speed Grapher. I also have the Amp LE Box for Beck.

I do own the LE Haruhi box(with all LE singles), LE Lucky Star box (but with SE discs for 2 on) but they were never crown pieces of my collection like the Funimation boxes (The Madoka LE's hold that spot as the moment, but thats the only AoA purchase I have made). I miss the days of swanky LE collectables. The random patch or sticker sheet nowadays doesn't really spark my interest, but I almost always go with the LE version of something if I am purchasing it, only if just for the chipboard art box.
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Gyt Kaliba



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
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Location: Arkansas

PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:08 pm Reply with quote
My main issue with Aniplex's insane pricing is the fact that they don't have a budget line for the same shows a lot of the times. The fact that they actually expect people to rush out and buy $500+ box sets for a show they might not have seen yet and just want to see how good it is - a box set for a show that only has 26 episodes or so too - is just asinine.
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Mr. sickVisionz



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:31 pm Reply with quote
Nice LEs are starting to come back around. NISA always includes artbooks, Aniplex is basically a JP release, and Funi is starting to dabble into it.

I really enjoy them when they are for a series I absolutely love. I wish we could get more commentary tracks from the creative side and behind the scenes things but those things seem dead in the water these days. I really liked Book of Bantorra and the import (which was actually a pretty affordable box set even by US standards) came with radio dramas, a bunch of episode commentaries, and a studio tour of the animation house. It was a bummer that the Sentai release included none of it. I figured the radio dramas would be a no go but I was really hoping that the making of feature might come. Oh well.
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Mirri



Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 288

PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:37 pm Reply with quote
Gyt Kaliba wrote:
My main issue with Aniplex's insane pricing is the fact that they don't have a budget line for the same shows a lot of the times. The fact that they actually expect people to rush out and buy $500+ box sets for a show they might not have seen yet and just want to see how good it is - a box set for a show that only has 26 episodes or so too - is just asinine.


Aniplex's equivalent to the "budget line" that is used to view "a show they might not have seen yet and just want to see how good it is" is ad-supported streaming. All of their recent shows are streamed in HD on Daisuki, and almost all of their shows have been streamed on Crunchyroll, Hulu, or Crackle otherwise.

Aniplex has only released one single box set meeting the standards you mentioned, the IMPORT Gurren Lagann BluRay Box. Even the much-maligned and much-loved Garden of sinners Blu-Ray Box cost $400, not "$500+" - again, import. Fate/Zero was split into two boxes many months apart that cost $370 and $330, import, and now it's available via the NA release for a fraction of what you'd pay for the import release- with a dub, too.

SAO for all four limited edition BluRay boxes costs under $500. Even I think that SAO's too expensive, but people are buying it! I'm personally a Type-Moon fan and that's what I'll spend that sort of money on.

Just, please be honest about the pricing scheme if you're going to argue against it.
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angelmcazares
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:37 pm Reply with quote
Answerman wrote:
There are two reasons why American-made limited editions are so much less grand affairs than their Japanese counterparts. The first is that compared to Japanese fans, Americans are cheap. Really, really cheap.


Thank you for pointing this out. Every time I comment on it, I am received with anger and accusations of being an elitist, filthy rich fan.
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DmonHiro



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
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Location: Romania, Bucharest

PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:42 pm Reply with quote
Gyt Kaliba wrote:
My main issue with Aniplex's insane pricing is the fact that they don't have a budget line for the same shows a lot of the times. The fact that they actually expect people to rush out and buy $500+ box sets for a show they might not have seen yet and just want to see how good it is - a box set for a show that only has 26 episodes or so too - is just asinine.

You are wrong, and don't seem to know much about how this works. If they made a budged release, then all the prestige that comes with buying their ultra-deluxe releases would be gone. People want to feels special for buying the 500$ release. Having a cheaper one would ruin that feeling. And their model is working perfectly. Not only do they expect people to rush out and buy it, they always sell out in days, for every one of their deluxe releases.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:42 pm Reply with quote
Oh great, more AoA hate. Like we haven't seen this before . . .

Gyt Kaliba wrote:
My main issue with Aniplex's insane pricing is the fact that they don't have a budget line for the same shows a lot of the times. The fact that they actually expect people to rush out and buy $500+ box sets for a show they might not have seen yet and just want to see how good it is - a box set for a show that only has 26 episodes or so too - is just asinine.


What's asinine is people who are not AoA customers continuing to trash the company for no other reason than sour grapes. AoA doesn't target casual fans who haven't seen the show yet, they target diehard fans who already have seen the show, want high-quality releases and have lots of disposable income.

AoA puts most of their stuff on Crunchyroll. If you can't afford to buy their physical media releases - and let's face it, ninety-nine percent of people cannot, and most of the remaining one percent will not - then you can always watch the show in HD with a cheap CR subscription.
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angelmcazares
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Joined: 23 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:47 pm Reply with quote
Gyt Kaliba wrote:
My main issue with Aniplex's insane pricing is the fact that they don't have a budget line for the same shows a lot of the times. The fact that they actually expect people to rush out and buy $500+ box sets for a show they might not have seen yet and just want to see how good it is - a box set for a show that only has 26 episodes or so too - is just asinine.


And just who in their right mind is going to blind buy a show for $500?
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Gyt Kaliba



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 609
Location: Arkansas

PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:57 pm Reply with quote
I don't plan to sit around debating this off and on all day, since my stance is unlikely to change, but I do feel I should respond back at least once.

Mirri wrote:
Aniplex's equivalent to the "budget line" that is used to view "a show they might not have seen yet and just want to see how good it is" is ad-supported streaming. All of their recent shows are streamed in HD on Daisuki, and almost all of their shows have been streamed on Crunchyroll, Hulu, or Crackle otherwise.


That's great and all, but that's still not 'owning' a copy of the show. And for those of us that live in areas where internet isn't the fastest or most stable, such as myself, streaming isn't really the best option. I'm still much more a fan of actually purchasing a physical copy of something anyway.

Quote:
Aniplex has only released one single box set meeting the standards you mentioned, the IMPORT Gurren Lagann BluRay Box. Even the much-maligned and much-loved Garden of sinners Blu-Ray Box cost $400, not "$500+" - again, import. Fate/Zero was split into two boxes many months apart that cost $370 and $330, import, and now it's available via the NA release for a fraction of what you'd pay for the import release- with a dub, too.

SAO for all four limited edition BluRay boxes costs under $500. Even I think that SAO's too expensive, but people are buying it! I'm personally a Type-Moon fan and that's what I'll spend that sort of money on.

Just, please be honest about the pricing scheme if you're going to argue against it.


I'll admit that it's the Gurren set I was referencing, and I haven't honestly looked into too many other releases from them (mainly because most of their other shows I haven't been super interested in, at least not enough to make purchasing plans at the moment anyway), so I apologize if my one reference without knowing their other prices is a bit bigoted. It still chafes me though that a show that's a re-release, tons of extra bells and whistles or no, should ever cost so much. You could buy a new laptop for about that price for crying out loud. I'm just thankful I already owned a previous release of Gurren.

DmonHiro wrote:
You are wrong, and don't seem to know much about how this works. If they made a budged release, then all the prestige that comes with buying their ultra-deluxe releases would be gone. People want to feels special for buying the 500$ release. Having a cheaper one would ruin that feeling. And their model is working perfectly. Not only do they expect people to rush out and buy it, they always sell out in days, for every one of their deluxe releases.


So it's more about bragging rights that can be lorded over the heads of other fans that want the shows but can't be afforded to shell out a fortune for every show they want? Yeah...that's...logical...and reeks of elitism IMO. I'm sure not everyone that buys them does that of course, but really? Anime boxsets shouldn't be a Ferarri that some people get to have and go 'neener neener' to their fellow fans.

A cheaper set that has none of the extras but just has the show would in no way invalidate bragging rights anyway, they'd still have a lot more than the person who gets the cheaper box, so all Aniplex is really doing is shooting themselves in the foot. But hey, if they manage to sell two boxes then they've made more cash than they would have by serving a larger customer base, so who are they to complain?

dtm42 wrote:
Oh great, more AoA hate. Like we haven't seen this before . . .

What's asinine is people who are not AoA customers continuing to trash the company for no other reason than sour grapes. AoA doesn't target casual fans who haven't seen the show yet, they target diehard fans who already have seen the show, want high-quality releases and have lots of disposable income.

AoA puts most of their stuff on Crunchyroll. If you can't afford to buy their physical media releases - and let's face it, ninety-nine percent of people cannot, and most of the remaining one percent will not - then you can always watch the show in HD with a cheap CR subscription.


It's more than sour grapes. My issue is the fact that they are targeting a select group rather than the mass of fans. Just because every fan doesn't have that kind of cash to throw around for their favorite shows doesn't mean they shouldn't be unable to buy them. And you know what? Even if I did have that kinda cash to throw around, it certainly wouldn't go to a company that's practically committing highway robbery just because they can, because 'that's how Japan prices things'. The fact of the matter is that this ISN'T Japan, and if someone wanted a set that expensive, they could easily just import it anyway. Case closed.

And again, as I stated earlier, streaming isn't the end-all answer for all of us that a lot of you seem to think it is. It's not as practical in rural areas as it is in most other places, and again, some of us still prefer buying a show blind and actually having a box in our hands while we watch the show for the first time. Spending $60-ish on a show to do that? Workable at times. Spending over $200? Yeah, not happening.

angelmcazares wrote:
And just who in their right mind is going to blind buy a show for $500?


Fair point, but I also question the 'right mind' of someone willing to spend that much on a show, especially a shorter one, in one go period.
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Blood-
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Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:06 pm Reply with quote
angelmcazares wrote:
Answerman wrote:
There are two reasons why American-made limited editions are so much less grand affairs than their Japanese counterparts. The first is that compared to Japanese fans, Americans are cheap. Really, really cheap.


Thank you for pointing this out. Every time I comment on it, I am received with anger and accusations of being an elitist, filthy rich fan.


The thing is that North Americans anime fans aren't "cheap." It is axiomatic that commodities will have different prices in different markets. If you live in an area where beef is abundant, chances are excellent you will be paying much less for your beef than someone in an area where beef is extremely scarce. The fact that you pay less for your beef doesn't make you "cheap." It simply means you are prepared to pay the going rate for beef in your particular locale. If the going rate for beef in your area is $15/kg, then someone coming along and asking $100/kg is going to raise your eyebrows. Again, that doesn't make you "cheap", it simply means you are aware of what the going rate of beef in your area is.

My second point is that many NA otaku probably outspend their Japanese counter-parts in absolute terms. It's just that the NA otaku gets more titles than the Japanese otaku. If you spend $10,000 and get 100 titles, you are not "cheap" compared to a person who spends $1,000 and got two.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:10 pm Reply with quote
Gyt Kaliba wrote:
It's more than sour grapes. My issue is the fact that they are targeting a select group rather than the mass of fans.


No doubt you are also angry at Ferrari for their cars being too expensive for the common man?Yes folks, I did just use this analogy again, because it is still relevant. Deal with it.

Gyt Kaliba wrote:
Just because every fan doesn't have that kind of cash to throw around for their favorite shows doesn't mean they shouldn't be unable to buy them.


No fan has the right to buy anime.

If you cannot afford an AoA release or refuse to pay for it then you can still watch the anime on Crunchyroll. Not the same as collecting the show but then that is a privilege that you have to pay for and you pointedly did not pay for it.

Gyt Kaliba wrote:
The fact of the matter is that this ISN'T Japan, and if someone wanted a set that expensive, they could easily just import it anyway. Case closed.


Oh, and just how the hell am I supposed to watch raw episodes of Japanese?

English subtitles. You may not need them but I certainly do. A straight import from Japan is useless to me.

Gyt Kaliba wrote:
Fair point, but I also question the 'right mind' of someone willing to spend that much on a show, especially a shorter one, in one go period.


It's their money; who are you to criticise how they spend it?
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maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:15 pm Reply with quote
the second point is very hard to prove, going by anecdotal evidence it's easy to say that the japanese are the ones who spned much more money. otherwise there would be much more anime aimed at americans as a start.

about commoditties ahving different prices on different markets it kidna answers itself, americans have a lto of beef, but anime is kobe steak, so even if you produce a lot of beef you don't produce kobe steak at all (maybe some cheap imitations here and there), so by importing kobe steak you have to pay as much as it costs where it is actually produced.


anyway, that was a nice tanget for me, as I wanted to comment on media centers; a PC can handle all file and media formats and streaming services (as far as i know) and be connected to a big tv; the biggest problem i have with pcs is that they are difficult to use remotely.
wireless keyboards/mouses are not very couch friendly ; I have used cell phones emulating a mouse with mixed results, tablets are better but they run out of juice fast, so good luck spending a weekend watching anime without recharging the tablet.
anyone else has a similar setup ?
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:21 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Gyt Kaliba wrote:
It's more than sour grapes. My issue is the fact that they are targeting a select group rather than the mass of fans.


No doubt you are also angry at Ferrari for their cars being too expensive for the common man?


I knew dtm42 would drag out his braindead Ferrari analogy even though it has been so thoroughly derided that anyone with an IQ over 5 reflexively laughs when somebody is stupid enough to use it.

A person who lives in an area where a Ferrari goes for $500,000 is logically going to be irritated if somebody tries to sell a Ferrari for $5 million since that is a price jump beyond what the local market normally asks.

But the analogy is even dumber than that. Let's say a dealer tries to sell a Ferrari for $5-million dollars in an area where a Ferrari usually sells for $500,000. At least a person has the option of going to another Ferrari dealer, right? Right.

However, anime titles are not "cars" that are available from a number of different "dealers". I can't turn my nose up at AoA's Bakemonogatari release and buy Funi's cheaper Bakemonogatari release, instead.

Which is why the ridiculous Ferrari analogy is only ever advanced by morons who can't think their way out of a wet paper bag.
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