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ultimatemegax



Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 412
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:39 pm Reply with quote
angelmcazares wrote:
SouthPacific wrote:
While I do not doubt Viz Media, I am concerned about the picture quality that FUNimation may bring.

If they're going to charge 90-150$ for a title, they have to amp up the video quality to match AoA/NISA. They can't for a second believe that it's going to work with washed-out colors & crappy masters, no one is going to support that type of release. And if worse comes to worst and this happens to be the case it's very likely that FUNimation will simply keep doing their regular releases instead of branching out.


I believe yesterday you also mentioned your worries about Funimation's video quality. I have not heard about video quality issues with Funimation releases before. Sentai is the company that have messed up video quality in the recent past.

Also, if Funimation messed the video quality in their premium release of Psycho-Pass, I doubt that many fans would be bothered by it. Funimation is probably going to make more LE editions as long as fans buy them, which I am sure they will.

Here's an example where I used screencaptures from Blu-ray.com's review and matched up images with my copy of the JP BDs to compare releases. Funimation's video team does some weird conversions to brighten certain scenes and darken others, creating a weird contrast. They also tend to introduce a lot of banding in darker scenes (the most notable examples are Steins;Gate (which had some banding on the JP side too) and Serial Experiments Lain (which did not have banding on the JP BDs).

Bluraydefinition.com has already posted their review of the Kami-sama Kiss set (they're reviewing the RE, but the discs should be the same as the "Goddess set" LE) and they note the banding/soft images most notably seen in Funi's sets, so it looks likely that they're not changing anything video-wise for premium editions.
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 6864
Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:41 pm Reply with quote
Gyt Kaliba wrote:
It's more than sour grapes. My issue is the fact that they are targeting a select group rather than the mass of fans.
The "mass of fans" already has their 10-bit 1080p fansubbed Japanese Blu-Ray rips that they downloaded months ago, and they're more interested in complaining about subtitle colors and the presence of a dub they don't want to "pay for" on a legitimate release than in actually supporting the series. Why not target a select group that's willing to spend enough to make a release profitable?
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PurpleWarrior13



Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 2024
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:42 pm Reply with quote
DmonHiro wrote:
So basically, people are mad are AoA because they can't afford their releases, but AoA's system is working great for them. Sorry, but the Ferrari analogy does work. The cost of production of a Ferrari is not that mush higher then a "regular" car, maybe 3-4 times as much tops.
But Ferrari only targets people with very deep pockets, people that they know can pay a lot of money. The system works for them, and owning a Ferrari shows that you have a shit ton of money, and are in a higher working class then others. The exact same thing happens with the AoA releases.

PS: You know why they are so expensive? Because they are very close to the Japanese BD release, and Japan doesn't want their otaku to import the cheap American version. It's either AoA prices, or you wait 2-3 years for a cheap American release, of lower quality, of course.

So yeah... bottom line: sour grapes.


Aniplex USA is still a very new company, and as they get into releasing more product on a regular basis, we might see more regular editions. They're releasing longer shows now too (such as Magi and Sword Art Online, both of which have second seasons), and of course sales for such expensive editions could easily drop off with each subsequent volume. The only problem with that: "reverse importation" fears could result in locked subtitles or the omission of the Japanese audio entirely (like Persona 4), at least for Blu-ray.

Also, the fear of Japanese otaku importing the American releases only applies to Blu-ray, and other companies are doing what they can, such as locking subtitles. Aniplex's DVD prices for shows like Fate/Zero and Magi are also really crazy. We don't have the same DVD Region as Japan, and never seemed to really have problems with DVDs and reverse-importation. So... why can't they at least do a cheaper release of Fate/Zero on DVD?

Also, I personally don't think the Ferrari analogy is the best. I understand where it's coming from, but if we just want the show, and only the show, it's more like Ford selling their Ford Explorer for 100k instead of 30k, but with most or all the accessories that we don't need, but that's jacking up the price.

dtm42 wrote:
They did this for PMMM, releasing three versions in all, though the two "normal" versions were still a bit more expensive than most comparative releases from other companies. But it does show that AoA tried to cater to a wider audience.


Not all their prices are bad, and I personally can afford their regular PMM (even if the prices are on the high-end) and Baccano releases, but I wish they would keep those in mind for other releases as well. Their originally sub-only Blue Exorcist DVDs weren't badly priced either (although I'd rather get the Blu-rays with the dub). Why can't they be a tad more consistent?

I can understand import releases being expensive. They're imports (even if I personally view the Japanese home video price-system as being crazy, but that's neither here nor there), but I personally wish their domestic releases were more reflective of what other companies like FUNimation and Viz do (and their business model has clearly worked for them). Psycho Pass is a good example. There's the regular edition for mass market and casual audience, and a premium edition for hardcore fans. Why not do that?


Last edited by PurpleWarrior13 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:56 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:42 pm Reply with quote
Well I can easily afford to pay that amount that AoA think their products are worth. The only thing that holds me back is I just don't think it is worth it, and that's that. Aniplex US is a lame duck anyway, It's not if, but when they finally go belly up. I'm actually surprised they've lasted this long.

Last edited by Mohawk52 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Panoptican



Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 160
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:43 pm Reply with quote
My one box to rule them all is the Roku. It's pretty great. It has thousands of apps available, so it pretty much has everything. That includes Netflix, Hulu, Crunchyroll, Amazon, Funimation, Youtube, and a Manga Entertainment channel. The other amazing app you need if you get a Roku is Plex. Basically Plex will stream video files from your computer or a personal server to the Roku. So you can use Roku for pretty much all streaming and downloaded files.

Of course it really isn't one box to rule them all since you'll still need a DVD/Blu-Ray player.
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TheAncientOne



Joined: 06 Oct 2010
Posts: 1868
Location: USA (mid-south)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:48 pm Reply with quote
maximilianjenus wrote:

anyway, that was a nice tanget for me, as I wanted to comment on media centers; a PC can handle all file and media formats and streaming services (as far as i know) and be connected to a big tv; the biggest problem i have with pcs is that they are difficult to use remotely.
wireless keyboards/mouses are not very couch friendly ; I have used cell phones emulating a mouse with mixed results, tablets are better but they run out of juice fast, so good luck spending a weekend watching anime without recharging the tablet.
anyone else has a similar setup ?

Personally, I don't have any issues using a Logitech M525 mouse on the arm of my large chair, and the Logitech K360 keyboard is easy to stow between it and the coffee table when not in use. A similar setup (albeit with different mice and keyboards in the past) has been working for me for years.

I still prefer to use my Roku 3 for Netflix, Funimation, and Manga Entertainment, but Crunchyroll, TAN, YouTube and anything else are still handled on the PC.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:57 pm Reply with quote
PurpleWarrior13 wrote:
Also, the Ferrari analogy isn't the best. I understand where it's coming from, but if we just want the show, and only the show, it's more like Ford selling their Ford Explorer for 100k instead of 30k, but with most or all the accessories that we don't need, but that's jacking up the price.


Wrong. The extras are part of what makes a premium product a premium product. You assume that the anime is the release and everything else is an add-on, but in a premium product like an AoA release the anime is but one part. Just like how Ferrari doesn't sell you a car with expensive add-ons but a premium experience that just so happens to include a car.

Mohawk52 wrote:
Aniplex US is a lame duck anyway, It's not if, but when they finally go belly up. I'm actually surprised they've lasted this long.


Why are you surprised that they're still around when they've been doing so well? Their first release was the enormously expensive Garden of Sinners box and that sold out. Right from the get-go they've been onto a winner.

Their goal isn't to be risky and appeal to the masses but instead just make a tidy low-risk profit for their parent company. As far as anyone can tell they've done that superbly.
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Angel M Cazares



Joined: 23 Sep 2010
Posts: 5407
Location: Iscandar
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:01 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
DmonHiro wrote:
The system works for them, and owning a Ferrari shows that you have a shit ton of money, and are in a higher working class then others. The exact same thing happens with the AoA releases.


Exactly. Aniplex releases are status symbols, something to proudly display on your shelves and boast about. It's the collector's mentality at work.


I also support and for the most part agree with AoA's business model. But I do not see owning some of their releases as status symbols. I am fortunate to have enough disposable income to pay for pricier anime releases, but my Bakemonogatari set does not make feel special or superior to others.

I just feel good when I am able to own physical copies of the anime I really like. LE are not that important to me, but I buy them when they are the only option, like in the cases of Bakemonogatari and Anohana. When my Sentai BD sets of Chuunibyou and From the New World arrive, I will feel fulfilled, even if they are bare bones releases.

For the record, I pre-ordered the premium edition of Psycho-Pass because I like the series a lot, I want to support Funimation's efforts and the regular editions do not come with the usual box that houses the two parts.
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Errinundra
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Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 6516
Location: Melbourne, Oz
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:02 pm Reply with quote
There's another problem with the Ferrari analogy. A $300,000 Ferrari will have ten times the production costs of a $30,000 family sedan. The money is going on extra performance - the cost of which increases exponentially with horsepower.

The quality of the AoA releases aren't exceptional. I've would rate Fate / Zero as very good, Garden of Sinners as good and Gurren Lagann as so-so. With the limited extras you get with the AoA products I can understand why they're called limited editions. They are nowhere near Ferrari quality.

And as for bragging rights... I just purchased the Madman Garden of Sinners LE DVD, which came with a box, postcards and artbook, for AU $112.47 (including my loyalty discount). That equates to US $101.23 (or about $12.65 per movie). So, to the people who paid hundreds for the BD and music - nya nya. Along with GoS I also purchased the superior Wolf Children (AU $22.47 or US $20.27) and the 26 episode Gosick (AU $44.96 or US $40.64). I can tell you I got more enjoyment re-watching Gosick than I did re-watching GoS. Besides, how many Americans have Gosick? Nya nya. Bragging rights are for poseurs.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23669
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:17 pm Reply with quote
errinundra wrote:
There's another problem with the Ferrari analogy. A $300,000 Ferrari will have ten times the production costs of a $30,000 family sedan. The money is going on extra performance - the cost of which increases exponentially with horsepower.

The quality of the AoA releases aren't exceptional. I've would rate Fate / Zero as very good, Garden of Sinners as good and Gurren Lagann as so-so. With the limited extras you get with the AoA products I can understand why they're called limited editions. They are nowhere near Ferrari quality.


Exactly. AoA's production costs for its releases don't even come close to justifying the price tag. I think AoA has a very smart business model. They are a very small shop (at one point I think they only had 5 people - not sure if that is still true) which keeps their overhead low. It's the kind of set-up that is perfect for a low volume - high price business model.

AoA's success rests with having a monopoly on titles (which they get from their parent company) that a small cadre of anime collectors who don't mind paying over-market prices really want.

But the fact their business model is smart and (appears) to be working for them doesn't mean that consumers who look askance at paying over-market prices are simply sour grape whiners.
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PurpleWarrior13



Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 2024
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:19 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Wrong. The extras are part of what makes a premium product a premium product. You assume that the anime is the release and everything else is an add-on, but in a premium product like an AoA release the anime is but one part. Just like how Ferrari doesn't sell you a car with expensive add-ons but a premium experience that just so happens to include a car.


I can for the most part understand why Aniplex USA's RELEASES are so blasted expensive. However, it's not like the anime titles themselves licensed by Aniplex USA are necessarily better than any other. What if you're not interested in an expensive limited edition and only want the show?
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DmonHiro





PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:20 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Wanting a Ferrari, being willing to pay the market rate for a Ferrari, but balking at paying 3x the market rate for one is not sour grapes.

And here is where you are making a mistake. At the time of the release, what AoA was charging for, let's say Fate/Zero WAS the market rate. It was 2 months after the Japanese release, it was the exact same master as the Japanese release, it was the same extras as the Japanese release. It WAS the Japanese release, with added English subtitles. They were charging the Japanese price for the equivalent of the Japanese release with added subtitles.

PurpleWarrior13 wrote:
What if you're not interested in an expensive limited edition and only want the show?

Then you watch it on Crunchy.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23669
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:23 pm Reply with quote
@ DmonHiro: I'm not talking about AoA's prices for its domestic imports. I'm talking about its prices for its domestic releases.
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PurpleWarrior13



Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 2024
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:28 pm Reply with quote
@DmonHiro As I mentioned on my first post, not all of us have internet connections that allow us to do much streaming. Because I live in a rural area, our internet connection is very limited, and we couldn't even stream Netflix (also I don't believe Crunchyroll has much with English audio anyway).

Last edited by PurpleWarrior13 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:28 pm Reply with quote
errinundra wrote:
There's another problem with the Ferrari analogy. A $300,000 Ferrari will have ten times the production costs of a $30,000 family sedan. The money is going on extra performance - the cost of which increases exponentially with horsepower.


You're also paying for the badge, which is important for some people, plus the experience and whatnot. Like I said, when you buy a Ferrari you aren't buying a good car, you're buying a good experience that just so happens to be car-shaped.

errinundra wrote:
With the limited extras you get with the AoA products I can understand why they're called limited editions. They are nowhere near Ferrari quality.


I was pretty pleased with the extras I got for my PMMM LE sets. Just sayin'.

errinundra wrote:
And as for bragging rights... I just purchased the Madman Garden of Sinners LE DVD, which came with a box, postcards and artbook, for AU $112.47 (including my loyalty discount). That equates to US $101.23 (or about $12.65 per movie). So, to the people who paid hundreds for the BD and music - nya nya.


You bought a release many years after the original for a cheaper price and you think this is unusual? It's no different to waiting five years to buy a computer game instead of buying it new.

PurpleWarrior13 wrote:
What if you're not interested in an expensive limited edition and only want the show?


As DmonHiro said, watch it on Crunchyroll. Since you can't, then use fansubs. If you want to physically own it then import it from somewhere else. Or, you could always wait for a cheaper version to come along in a few years' time. Want Japanese speed, pay Japanese prices. Not AoA's fault, it's the fault of whoever decided on the BR regions.
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