×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
NEWS: Sword Art Online/Accel World's Kawahara to Print Absolute Solitude Novels


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
TUSF



Joined: 11 Oct 2013
Posts: 191
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:13 am Reply with quote
Top Gun wrote:
That's all well and good if you're writing in a purely-fantasy setting where the power of loooooove (as a friend of mine loves to call it) can save the day. SAO does not occupy that sort of setting: it's set in a near-future realistic sci-fi realm, and as such can be expected to maintain certain standards of plausibility and logic. The events of that episode throw both of those out the window, with absolutely no explanations given.

These are the rules of the Virtual Reality this world uses. Accel World uses a similar concept, where the world around them is connected to their will, and mind.

Top Gun wrote:

"Microwave electromagnet" not being a thing aside, you have to assume that it would have been intended as the means of killing: microwave + human tissue = bad times. But whatever the exact mechanism, let's run with it: how did whoever manufactured these things not notice that they could be used to sizzle someone's brain? Hell, how did a brain-controlling VR device like that ever make it through any sort of electronics regulatory board in the first place, especially without some sort of manual override? Were we supposed to believe that a single man constructed an entire MMORPG, something that would take a team of dozens if not hundreds in real life, AND engineered the NerveGear hardware? How was it that nobody else had access to the game's source code and noticed things like the removal of the logout feature? And we're somehow supposed to buy that over the course of two years, nobody figured out how to disable these things without killing the player? (I can think of two or three plausible methods right off the top of my head.) All of these thoughts crossed my mind during the first episode or two, and the fact that none of them resolved smacked of an author who hadn't put nearly enough thought into the basic setting of his story.


Microwaves have a powerful Electromagnet. I'm pretty sure he was using that as a comparison. Regardless, this was just Kirito pointing out that such a thing existed.
That being said, if you did find out to release someone, don't you think the creator of the game wouldn't just kill someone else in exchange? I'm pretty sure this was stated somewhere (Actually, the Author probably said this at a Q&A), that if they could release a number of people, they would kill an equal amount of players. Do you want to be responsible for the deaths of many more people?

As for creating a game... Kayaba was the head of both creating the NerveGear, and Sword Art Online. He didn't do it alone, you're right, but have you ever seen a game's source code? If you were to make a few adjustments, it's possible no one on your team will notice for months.
The NerveGear also likely had a number of safeties, that Kayaba knew how to disable, because he designed the bulk of it. It's pretty reasonable to assume he could pull this off in his position.

Top Gun wrote:
I think you could probably throw Sachi in there too, which definitely pushes the number into harem territory. I mean I don't have a huge issue if you have a few people be interested in him at different times, but you start running into problems when it's primarily those attractions that define said characters. Even with Asuna, you have her say, "If you die, I'll kill myself," which is...not really the portrayal of a healthy relationship.

Throwing Sachi in would be 100% speculation, and Kirito would have to be 100% dense, as in her side-story (in the LN) he said their relationship was in no way romantic.
Asuna is also pretty crazy in her own way. From the very beginning she's had little regard for her own life, and when the two met (omitted in the Anime), it was apparent that she was almost suicidal, in the way that she excessively grinded in high-level areas without any help.

Top Gun wrote:
If by "personal preference" you mean "commonly-accepted standards of decency and/or basic respect for women," then yes, I suppose you could call it that.

I don't understand your point here... You want one of the villains to respect a specific character? So if at one point there was a character, in any story, who was a girl, who happened to have been raped or assaulted at one point in her life, that story is degraded in value, somehow?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14754
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:36 am Reply with quote
CelestialEmpress wrote:

Being creeped out by clumsily-handled molestation isn't so much a personal preference as it is a basic human emotion.


Well of course we'd always like to see a sure-handled one but still..........
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 4570
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:21 am Reply with quote
Mister Ryan Andrews wrote:
Is this your first anime or something? Japanese media's is pretty open about sex and stuff. Wanting to bone your cousins pops up a lot even in kids shows... and complaining about tentacle monsters in 2014 seems so passe.

Um, not remotely, but I find these sorts of tropes ridiculous (if not abhorrent) and avoid them if at all possible. I can certainly assure you that Japan as a whole is not so "open" about sexuality that incest is a frequent topic in "kids' shows." That may be a common topic in hardcore otaku-bait series, but those represent as much of a niche entertainment market in Japan as they do in the US.

TUSF wrote:
These are the rules of the Virtual Reality this world uses. Accel World uses a similar concept, where the world around them is connected to their will, and mind.

Okay, so the show is set in the real world, except for those moments where the author finds himself forced to use a ridiculous contrivance to resolve a certain situation. That's pretty much the textbook definition of "bad writing."

Quote:
That being said, if you did find out to release someone, don't you think the creator of the game wouldn't just kill someone else in exchange? I'm pretty sure this was stated somewhere (Actually, the Author probably said this at a Q&A), that if they could release a number of people, they would kill an equal amount of players. Do you want to be responsible for the deaths of many more people?

I suppose it's a reasonable possibility that Kayaba would hold something like that over everyone's heads as a threat, but as a counter to that, one could work up a plan in which all the players were safely disconnected simultaneously. It'd be a big technical challenge, but certainly feasible from a story standpoint. In an alternate-universe working of SAO, you could probably create a fun climactic scene out of it, too.

Quote:
As for creating a game... Kayaba was the head of both creating the NerveGear, and Sword Art Online. He didn't do it alone, you're right, but have you ever seen a game's source code? If you were to make a few adjustments, it's possible no one on your team will notice for months.
The NerveGear also likely had a number of safeties, that Kayaba knew how to disable, because he designed the bulk of it. It's pretty reasonable to assume he could pull this off in his position.

Possibly, but in real development for a game of this size, you'd need a whole team of programmers all working on a shared codebase, and version control systems mean that you'd see changes made by every other coder as they update the common codebase. I mean I guess you can spin a scenario where Kayaba privately makes the last code revision and then declares it gold without anyone else looking at it, but you're getting into some pretty unlikely territory there. I'd think that logout code for a game that takes over your brain would probably be one area where they'd want to quintuple-check that everything was in order. Very Happy

And even if Kayaba designed the device, you'd definitely have some sort of outside governmental body examining the finished product...I mean you're talking about something that basically takes over a person's brain. At the very least you'd need some sort of physical fall-back if the software had issues. That's why I was so amazed in those initial moments when the players realized that the logout button was gone; it was like, "Wait, they can't do anything at all without that?"

Quote:
Throwing Sachi in would be 100% speculation, and Kirito would have to be 100% dense, as in her side-story (in the LN) he said their relationship was in no way romantic.
Asuna is also pretty crazy in her own way. From the very beginning she's had little regard for her own life, and when the two met (omitted in the Anime), it was apparent that she was almost suicidal, in the way that she excessively grinded in high-level areas without any help.

Kirito may have felt that their relationship was completely platonic, but from the way Sachi was acting, she was definitely crushing on him pretty hard. I mean you generally don't ask to sleep in the same bed as someone you consider a mere friend. Razz I guess I can see that about Asuna; it definitely would have helped if the anime had retained that detail.

Quote:
Top Gun wrote:
If by "personal preference" you mean "commonly-accepted standards of decency and/or basic respect for women," then yes, I suppose you could call it that.

I don't understand your point here... You want one of the villains to respect a specific character? So if at one point there was a character, in any story, who was a girl, who happened to have been raped or assaulted at one point in her life, that story is degraded in value, somehow?

No, I didn't mean the villain in-story, but instead the author writing it. Kawahara originally established Asuna as a fairly-strong female character, but then he not only removed all of her agency in the next arc, but went so far as to make her the victim of molestations that served no narrative purpose except playing to otaku's skeevy fetishes. There are some really widespread problems with the portrayals of women in many modern anime series, and in this respect SAO was a prime example. Have her be captured if you must, but at least do it with some dignity.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TUSF



Joined: 11 Oct 2013
Posts: 191
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:30 am Reply with quote
Top Gun wrote:
Okay, so the show is set in the real world, except for those moments where the author finds himself forced to use a ridiculous contrivance to resolve a certain situation. That's pretty much the textbook definition of "bad writing."

More like, the author is relying on "the power of will" too much. He really only ever does this 3 times (in what was covered in the Anime), 1 of which you probably didn't even notice. (Asuna running several kilometers, in about a couple minutes, to save Kirito. Novel said this was impossible given her parameters, so yeah)
And after that, I don't recall Kirito ever doing anything like that again. Of course, other characters do...

Top Gun wrote:
...
I suppose it's a reasonable possibility that Kayaba would hold something like that over everyone's heads as a threat, but as a counter to that, one could work up a plan in which all the players were safely disconnected simultaneously. It'd be a big technical challenge, but certainly feasible from a story standpoint. In an alternate-universe working of SAO, you could probably create a fun climactic scene out of it, too.

....
Possibly, but in real development for a game of this size, you'd need a whole team of programmers all working on a shared codebase, and version control systems mean that you'd see changes made by every other coder as they update the common codebase. I mean I guess you can spin a scenario where Kayaba privately makes the last code revision and then declares it gold without anyone else looking at it, but you're getting into some pretty unlikely territory there. I'd think that logout code for a game that takes over your brain would probably be one area where they'd want to quintuple-check that everything was in order. Very Happy

And even if Kayaba designed the device, you'd definitely have some sort of outside governmental body examining the finished product...I mean you're talking about something that basically takes over a person's brain. At the very least you'd need some sort of physical fall-back if the software had issues. That's why I was so amazed in those initial moments when the players realized that the logout button was gone; it was like, "Wait, they can't do anything at all without that?"
((Just gonna put these two together))
It wouldn't be very easy to plan all of this. When it first began, they had to rush everyone to a hospital, and they had a time-limit. They would then have to coordinate a lot, to get everyone ready to disconnect every player at once, or fast enough to keep the system from frying the remaining people.
But you're right. The likelyhood of one person being able to pull this off is pretty slim. Kayaba is practically a bigger Sue than Kirito, seeing as he was pretty young, being a genius Programmer, Physicist, and Neurologist. His only flaw was his Delusions that were akin to Chuuni.

Top Gun wrote:
Kirito may have felt that their relationship was completely platonic, but from the way Sachi was acting, she was definitely crushing on him pretty hard. I mean you generally don't ask to sleep in the same bed as someone you consider a mere friend. Razz I guess I can see that about Asuna; it definitely would have helped if the anime had retained that detail.

Maybe. Though, the novel said they slept in the same room (book even says they never slept in the same bed). Seems to be an anime-only touch. Though, it does seem that Sachi admired him at the very least. Crushing on him isn't too much of a stretch.

Top Gun wrote:
No, I didn't mean the villain in-story, but instead the author writing it. Kawahara originally established Asuna as a fairly-strong female character, but then he not only removed all of her agency in the next arc, but went so far as to make her the victim of molestations that served no narrative purpose except playing to otaku's skeevy fetishes. There are some really widespread problems with the portrayals of women in many modern anime series, and in this respect SAO was a prime example. Have her be captured if you must, but at least do it with some dignity.


Eh, I see your point. Yes, he did depower her a lot. Nearly everyone hated this part.
However, that scene wasn't to pander to anyone or anything. The author has a habit of wanting his readers to HATE the villains, and he usually uses molestation and attempted rape. This is probably what I hate most about Kawahara's writing habits, really. He reused this idea several times, and it only serves the purpose of making the reader dislike the Villain more, so that the beating he receives becomes deserved.
Kayaba is almost literally the only villain that doesn't do this, and likely because it was before the Author decided "this is a good idea to demonize my villains!"
I believe he did this with a couple of his villains from Accel World, (though, to a lesser extent, as he probably wrote AW when he was growing out of that phase) but I haven't really read too much of that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bglassbrook



Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 1243
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:33 pm Reply with quote
TUSF wrote:
The only characters that DO fall for him are Asuna, Lisbeth, and Suguha. The end of the second Arc, for one reason or another, decided to throw in Silica as part of that list, despite the fact that her side-story only had her admire him as a brother, so one would assume she probably developed feelings later on. Who knows, though.

So they switched this for the anime? From my recollection, he saw her as a surrogate-sister, but she seems very aware of the male-female dynamic going on.

Either way, the more LNs that sell well, the less likely bringing them over is to die-off, so it's a good thing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
TUSF



Joined: 11 Oct 2013
Posts: 191
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:42 pm Reply with quote
bglassbrook wrote:
TUSF wrote:
The only characters that DO fall for him are Asuna, Lisbeth, and Suguha. The end of the second Arc, for one reason or another, decided to throw in Silica as part of that list, despite the fact that her side-story only had her admire him as a brother, so one would assume she probably developed feelings later on. Who knows, though.

So they switched this for the anime? From my recollection, he saw her as a surrogate-sister, but she seems very aware of the male-female dynamic going on.

Either way, the more LNs that sell well, the less likely bringing them over is to die-off, so it's a good thing.

Hmmm, she does seem interested in him in the LN, to some extent, but I wouldn't call it crushing on him or anything. Not until later, anyways. (That scene at the end of the Anime was also in the books, so I guess I could just be completely wrong about her.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5823
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:00 am Reply with quote
Asuna was a prize for Nobuyuki Sugō. Why would he want a lesser female character. It only makes common sense for him to imprison the leading female character of SAO for his evil perverse desires. While she didn't get much screen time, she wasn't exactly lying down on the job either.

Even with all the crime drama's and real life news burning 24/7 on all the channels, people don't really understand evil. Real life evil people are truly more horrific and terrible, than anything shown in SAO or ALO. Rape, abuse, and murder are far more common than anything shown in SAO or ALO. One could say, that SAO didn't show enough of these evil crimes, that it was unrealistic in its depictions of human nature. Much doubt that Silica really could have wandered around by herself in SAO, without being targeted and falling into the clutches of really evil or insane players.

What good are sterile and passionless evil characters. If you are going to be evil, then you need to go all out. Being evil is risky business, so your personal rewards have to be high. Really, ALO is quite tame, considering that there is no way anyone in Nobuyuki Sugō's position would have waited before abusing Asuna, once they had her captured.

Complaining about anime being too risque or showing depictions of evil acts, flies in the face, that this is what anime has been known for for decades. It is what many people watch anime for.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group