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Why are ANN even allowed to review harem anime again?

what's the problem? it's a very honest review of a very bad show

dtm42 wrote:

Anyway, to my actual point; that director also did Mayo Chiki! and Moetan, both of which are horrendous (especially the later)

So says the Crystal Ball Critic who's seen one episode or less of each of those shows.

Blind bought it, love harems, incest and fanservice, love Key's reviews, and still can't really argue with the review. Felt pretty harsh for a Key review though, sometimes he throws softballs.

Still enjoyed it somehow, and the redhead Pres certainly had my blood boiling. About all I remember from the show though.

SquadmemberRitsu wrote:

Why are ANN even allowed to review harem anime again?

Because different people have different opinions? I'd say Theron spelled out what he disliked about the show pretty well, and it certainly didn't read like he docked it simply for being a harem series. I seem to recall numerous reviews for different harem series that were pretty positive and suggest that there isn't the overarching bias that you're so concerned about.

Zalis116 wrote:

So says the Crystal Ball Critic who's seen one episode or less of each of those shows.

Sigh. Next thing I know you'll be telling me that Moetan was actually the finest anime of its generation.

I don't have a crystal ball, instead I have a brain and a pair of eyes. You probably won't believe this but they do come in handy surprisingly often.

Greed1914 wrote:

SquadmemberRitsu wrote:

Why are ANN even allowed to review harem anime again?

Because different people have different opinions? I'd say Theron spelled out what he disliked about the show pretty well, and it certainly didn't read like he docked it simply for being a harem series. I seem to recall numerous reviews for different harem series that were pretty positive and suggest that there isn't the overarching bias that you're so concerned about.

Agreed. Even if there were some sort of overarching dislike of harem comedies on ANN, the notion that nobody on ANN should review them is close-minded as heck. Not liking a genre/work doesn't mean you don't have something interesting to say about it.

At that point, people don't want a critical review, they want confirmation bias on their own tastes.

enurtsol wrote:

Japanese put too much emphasis on blood. Child adoptions are very rare in Japan (there are adoptions but mostly adult adoptions for financial or strategic reasons). If you're not blood, you're not family. (That's why SAO's Kirito/Kazuto was so emo about being adopted, even though he grew up lovingly with the family since age 1 so wouldn't remember his biological parents, and even though he's actually blood-related/nephew/cousin - in the West, this'd be laughable.)

Instead, what you say is laughable. "If you're not blood, you're not family" holds just as true in the US and other nations. It is more prevalent in Japan, but it is culturally ingrained in most places. You obviously don't read a lot of trashy romance novels if you think step-sibling incestuousness is not just as ingrained in the English speaking world as it is in anime. It is just more obvious because anime is something we watch and enjoy.

You act like in the West adoptions are perfect meldings of family, everyone is happy and loving. This is simply not the case. Kirito's reaction is a perfectly normal one for an adopted child no matter where they are, and has nothing to do with any "emphasis on blood". It doesn't matter whether an adopted child is completely non-related or a cousin; nor the length of time they are adopted. They can still have very negative reactions, there are a whole lot of factors at play. In fact Kirito's "emo" reaction barely registers, he gets over it quickly.

partially wrote:

You obviously don't read a lot of trashy romance novels if you think step-sibling incestuousness is not just as ingrained in the English speaking world as it is in anime.

Does any of that really lean towards the "I want my blood brother/sister soooo bad.... wait! We're not blood-related, so it's A-OK!"? Because I'm pretty sure that's not it - introducing two characters to one another by having their parents marry is completely different, unless they were two at the time.

partially wrote:

enurtsol wrote:

Japanese put too much emphasis on blood. Child adoptions are very rare in Japan (there are adoptions but mostly adult adoptions for financial or strategic reasons). If you're not blood, you're not family. (That's why SAO's Kirito/Kazuto was so emo about being adopted, even though he grew up lovingly with the family since age 1 so wouldn't remember his biological parents, and even though he's actually blood-related/nephew/cousin - in the West, this'd be laughable.)

Instead, what you say is laughable. "If you're not blood, you're not family" holds just as true in the US and other nations.

No, child adoptions are not uncommon in the West. If you've been paying attention to world news last year, there's this whole cross-border controversy when Americans could no longer adopt children from Russia:

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/30/17504450-outrage-sadness-as-americans-barred-from-adopting-russian-children

Western families are less about blood but more about familial relationships. People adopt all the time, and other people don't really care if you're adopted.

Meanwhile in Japan, straight from the mouth of a worker at a Japanese orphanage about sums it up:

Why don’t the Japanese orphans get adopted?

There are a few different reasons. One is because adoption isn’t common in Japan, and it isn’t seen as a positive thing at all. There’s a lot of emphasis on blood ties here in Japan. Most Westerners look at parents who have adopted children as virtuous and kindhearted people, and most people look at adopted kids as 100% full members of the family who adopted them. In Japan, adoption is seen as strange or even shameful. Adoption is rare in Japan, and often hidden when it does occur. My co-worker’s sister adopted a baby girl and actually moved to a different city after the adoption so that she could introduce her “new” daughter as her biological daughter to her neighbours. Most people in the community will never know that the little girl was adopted as a baby. My co-worker said that his niece didn’t even find out herself until she was twenty years old. I think this attitude is both unhealthy and unnecessary, but some things are still really old fashioned here in Japan; “shotgun” weddings, female executives serving tea to their lower-ranking male co-workers, and the shame of adopting or of being adopted. They’re still things here.

So why is Japan's adoption rate so high?

Finally, thank you Sarah for sending me a really interesting link on adoption in Japan. Japan actually has the highest rate of adoption after the USA, but it's not the adoption of children. It's Japanese adults legally adopting other adults [usually for financial or business reasons - while the vast majority of adoptees in the U.S. are children, they account for just 2% of adoptions in Japan; the other 98% are males around 25 to 30.]. Read this article to learn more about it.

Fact is, sadly it really is a thing in Japan.

^
Yes, very sad. And extremely hypocritical too. They won't adopt a baby because babies are not part of their kin and expensive to raise (and need their nappies changed), but they'll happily adopt a grown man (who also isn't part of their kin) just so they can have a ready-made 'son' to take over their businesses.

Chagen46 wrote:

Quote:

One has to wonder if they truly understood what they were getting when they licensed it and opted to limit their financial risk, as they had to realize at some point that American fans are unlikely to be as tolerant of the in-your-face incest present here as Japanese otaku might be

Uh...there are a LOT of incest fetishists in the western anime fandom. Maybe not as much as Japan, but they aren't some tiny minority from what I've seen. On forums like ANN they generally aren't overt about it but if you go to some place like MAL, they're common.

I wont be so sure about the reviewer's claims. if that was the case,series like Angel Sancutary and Koi Kaze would have not have got licenses for the US. Not to mention Cress: Celestial Legend that had that too as well as Onegai Twins.

Even Aki Sora" Yume no Naka got a US license from Media Blasters 18+ sister site Kitty Media.

also there have been other series 18+ or not which have storylines involving families that are blood related and have romantic feelings for one another have been released here. some became popular while some did not.

So the reviewer's notion that the US otaku community is not into in your face incest storylines is kinda one sided and a half if not overly false. and personally i like romances between siblings, alongs as its doesnt go to the extreme creepy level.

Unfortunately because of the lack of an english dub will have a lot of people avoiding it. i already watched the sub version on Funi's official website, and though it have flaws, its a solid harem series, but it will be the lack of an english dub that will prevent me from buying the DVD.

Polycell wrote:

partially wrote:

You obviously don't read a lot of trashy romance novels if you think step-sibling incestuousness is not just as ingrained in the English speaking world as it is in anime.

Does any of that really lean towards the "I want my blood brother/sister soooo bad.... wait! We're not blood-related, so it's A-OK!"? Because I'm pretty sure that's not it - introducing two characters to one another by having their parents marry is completely different, unless they were two at the time.

Unfortunately there is also another thing too. for some reason , some series get their scripts changed from the japaneese counterparts so while its blood related over there for the US release, their not blood related. and its a bigger case for the 18+ series that fall victim to that double standard. if the companies CEOs was worried about going to prison or something like that for releasing series with questionable content aka incest, then a majority of the series i mentioned would haven't gotten a US license.

partially wrote:

enurtsol wrote:

Japanese put too much emphasis on blood. Child adoptions are very rare in Japan (there are adoptions but mostly adult adoptions for financial or strategic reasons). If you're not blood, you're not family. (That's why SAO's Kirito/Kazuto was so emo about being adopted, even though he grew up lovingly with the family since age 1 so wouldn't remember his biological parents, and even though he's actually blood-related/nephew/cousin - in the West, this'd be laughable.)

Instead, what you say is laughable. "If you're not blood, you're not family" holds just as true in the US and other nations. It is more prevalent in Japan, but it is culturally ingrained in most places. You obviously don't read a lot of trashy romance novels if you think step-sibling incestuousness is not just as ingrained in the English speaking world as it is in anime. It is just more obvious because anime is something we watch and enjoy.

You act like in the West adoptions are perfect meldings of family, everyone is happy and loving. This is simply not the case. Kirito's reaction is a perfectly normal one for an adopted child no matter where they are, and has nothing to do with any "emphasis on blood". It doesn't matter whether an adopted child is completely non-related or a cousin; nor the length of time they are adopted. They can still have very negative reactions, there are a whole lot of factors at play. In fact Kirito's "emo" reaction barely registers, he gets over it quickly.

Kinda figurred out some would use SAO as an example. though its true and a half ( even though techincally he is being raised by family members since he was adopted by his aunt).

Though it was definitely a mega double standard since when angel sancutary and koi kaze was released , no one had an issue when they allowed the siblings to get their happy endings , but for SAO, people are going midevil of the though of the two cousins getting close. Dont know if it cause their cousins and not siblings is the reason for the though of kazuto and suguha getting together got a lot of people crying bloody murder or a majority of the otaku community no longer find the sibling relationships interesting than it was when series like Angel Sancutary and Cress was released which was in the 90's so its highly unlikely that there will be a non h series featuring sibling romance being released for this generation of the otaku community.

Chagen46 wrote:

Quote:

One has to wonder if they truly understood what they were getting when they licensed it and opted to limit their financial risk, as they had to realize at some point that American fans are unlikely to be as tolerant of the in-your-face incest present here as Japanese otaku might be

Uh...there are a LOT of incest fetishists in the western anime fandom. Maybe not as much as Japan, but they aren't some tiny minority from what I've seen. On forums like ANN they generally aren't overt about it but if you go to some place like MAL, they're common.

Game of Thrones is full of in your face incest. It is a major back story plot point, and with Cersei and Jaime Lannister it is an active major force driving the story. Doesn't seem to bother many people, as it is one of the most popular shows on TV and the incest is a major part of the story.

So I don't see incest as being a negative plot point in anime. It hasn't hurt Game of Thrones, so there is no reason for it to hurt anime.

What hurts anime is bad stories, unrealistic characters, and bad animation.

Quote:

To make sure all tastes are covered, why not toss in an adult woman, too?

Considering the general dearth of adult characters and the abundance of lolis/quasi-lolis in anime today I had all but given up hope that there were those in the otaku oligarchy who weren't strict lolicons. I thought that all the high-school aged protagonists were getting old (lol) but little did I know how I'd pine for those days now that they're long past and virtually all characters are lolis or look as though they are.

...I wonder if the members of the otaku oligarchy who espouse their natural "teleiophilia" have to be closeted about it, lest they become pariahs (what would an outcast from a group of outcasts be? lol).

TarsTarkas wrote:

Game of Thrones is full of in your face incest. It is a major back story plot point, and with Cersei and Jaime Lannister it is an active major force driving the story. Doesn't seem to bother many people, as it is one of the most popular shows on TV and the incest is a major part of the story.

It isn't presented as fetish material in Game of Thrones.

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