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The Mike Toole Show - I've Got You, Man


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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 12402
Location: NZL

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:25 pm Reply with quote
Michael wrote:
Depending on your feelings about old-school Gatchaman, however, you may find the show polarizing. I've talked to fans invigorated with this new-look approach, but I've also talked to fans who think Gatchaman Crowds is undeserving of the fine Gatchaman name, which apparently should only be reserved for the very best bird-themed superhero cartoons.


I think it would also be interesting and illuminating to ask younger folk who had no prior experience with Gatchaman as to what they think of Crowds. The show took the franchise into the twenty-first century, and the social-media aspect to it definitely should hit home to most Generation Ys. But does the rest of the show work? I think that at the very least, before it should be judged on how it fares compared to the rest of the Gatchaman franchise, Crowds has to prove that it is a good show in its own right. I think that it definitely displayed a unique voice, loads of energy and some great concepts that are relevant to our modern world. But I also believe that it was atrociously executed. Perhaps if it had been simply a modernised version of the original series - like Space Battleship Yamato 2199 was - then it could have been a solid series.
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Aylinn



Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 1558

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:50 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
I think it would also be interesting and illuminating to ask younger folk who had no prior experience with Gatchaman as to what they think of Crowds.


It was successful enough to have announced second season, so I suppose it must have been popular among new fans.
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DRWii



Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 394

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:17 pm Reply with quote
I'm not sure I'd really call myself a "fan" of "Gatchaman," seeing as my previous exposure to the franchise was just the '94 OVA and maybe a third of the original series (as well as a dozen or so episodes of "Battle of the Planets"), but I'm not entirely sure how I feel about "Crowds." I guess I did want more of a sentai approach to the series (especially seeing as how the team has a pretty cool variety of powers). But then again, I'm not great at analysis and don't have much knowledge of art history, so I was probably just viewing it on too much of a surface level; maybe multiple viewings and some research will give me a deeper understanding of the show. And if nothing else, I can't really fault Tatsunoko for trying something new with the franchise instead of just playing it safe.

Quote:
and even if you're put off by the extent of the departure, it's worth a look just for Mamoru Miyano's inspired, looney-tunes performance as Berg Katze.

Seconded. Whatever else I may think of the series, the new Katze was totally awesome.

Quote:
The aforementioned terrible, added-in animation from Sandy Frank...almost invariably involved the exploits of 7-Zark-7

Ah, 7-Zark-7. Even when I was in middle-school, I found all the footage of him amusing for how much it tried to sanitize the show. After a few episodes, it kind of became a running joke around my house for a while that whenever we saw something blow up in a movie, one of us would say some variation of "thank goodness that (insert blown up thing here) was evacuated before anyone was hurt!"

Quote:
This new set includes Gatchaman ’94, complete with a new dubbed version by ADV's TV cast.

Does it also have the old dub, or just this new one? Because one thing I remember liking about that dub was how they actually tried to make Katze's voice more ambiguous/gender-neutral, instead of the decidedly male voice he usually has (in both English and Japanese).

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After a CG film by the studio IMAGI was derailed by bankruptcy

I'm still genuinely disappointed this movie was cancelled; almost everything that was shown of it looked good. I even went to see their "Astro Boy" movie in theaters despite not caring at all about "Astro Boy"/"Tetsuwan Atom," just to support them. Lot of good that did.
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Durga



Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:30 pm Reply with quote
Battle of the Planets fascinates as an early example of how early anime got here to the states. Those 7-zark-7 scenes are hilariously awful, but some of the stuff they managed to keep from the original series I thought was kind of cool, and hearing old-school voice actors Casey Kasem and Alan Young was a treat. Obviously I didn't see it in its original run. I'm a little too young for that, but it was neat seeing what Sandy Frank made out of the original cartoon. I may have to check out that puppy episode though.

Crowds... ick. Did not dig in the slightest mostly due to Hajime's obnoxious antics, or really any character for that matter. I thought they were all flat and unlikable. Certainly the original Gatchaman wasn't an example of complex characterization, but for as simple as they were you at least wanted to see them save the day. Didn't help that the new aesthetics felt all over the place and the CG costumes (admittedly they weren't used often) were ugly. Sorry, I could not get behind the Crowds hype, and I'm baffled at how they'll continue this story with a second season when the first season barely had enough story for 12 episodes.
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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 182

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:48 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:


I think it would also be interesting and illuminating to ask younger folk who had no prior experience with Gatchaman as to what they think of Crowds. The show took the franchise into the twenty-first century, and the social-media aspect to it definitely should hit home to most Generation Ys. But does the rest of the show work? I think that at the very least, before it should be judged on how it fares compared to the rest of the Gatchaman franchise, Crowds has to prove that it is a good show in its own right. I think that it definitely displayed a unique voice, loads of energy and some great concepts that are relevant to our modern world. But I also believe that it was atrociously executed. Perhaps if it had been simply a modernised version of the original series - like Space Battleship Yamato 2199 was - then it could have been a solid series.


As a Gen-Y with no prior exposure to Gatchaman in any incarnation, I loved it! I did later try looking up G-Force online, since that was the show my dad was familiar with, but...yeah, it was tough for me to get into. Not because of the age; I can dig older stuff, but I just found it too formulaic. It was like watching the Boomerang channel, which is nice if you're on a nostalgia kick, but hey, even Scooby Doo had to update it's storytelling style to appeal to modern audiences. I am a little puzzled by what you mean by "atrociously executed", though. As far as I was concerned, it was really only the ending and a bit of OD's characterization that was rushed through. Given that it was only 12 episodes, I thought it was handled pretty well.
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Philmister978



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:56 pm Reply with quote
Um Mike, not sure where you got your information, but I'm pretty sure Hanna-Barbara didn't do the newly-added footage for BoTP.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 3767
Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:02 pm Reply with quote
Philmister978 wrote:
Um Mike, not sure where you got your information, but I'm pretty sure Hanna-Barbara didn't do the newly-added footage for BoTP.


You're correct, Hanna-Barbera never got themselves involve with anime. This was all Sandy Frank work.

Another great article, Mike!!! Thanks for doing this. Nice retrospectives on Gatchaman.
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Animegomaniac



Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 1377

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:33 pm Reply with quote
whiskeyii wrote:
I am a little puzzled by what you mean by "atrociously executed", though. As far as I was concerned, it was really only the ending and a bit of OD's characterization that was rushed through. Given that it was only 12 episodes, I thought it was handled pretty well.


Agree fully here; I think the better complaint of the show would be for the personality choices of her follow Gatchman teammates were only done to make Hajime and her thought process seem all the more inhuman - ironic since half the cast spoiler[turned out to be aliens.]

I liked the characters, liked the aesthetic of the production design featuring good use of otherworldly computer animation, loved Katze and thought the "social media conquers the world through Siri" a lot more interesting premise than the movie Her.

It probably could be redone as a two hour pilot but it would have to lose all that wonderful Hajime quirkiness.

But this from someone who knows nothing about the original series except having seen a few of the "Battle of the Planets" version - but only enough to recognize the iconic outfits. You know, a "Hey, it's those guys." reaction. So seeing the series now {I have no problems with limited animation}, would I be bored by the levels of camp or is there an actual narrative thread in those 100+ episodes?

I have the option to watch it but so far have little interest in it.
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Levitz9



Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 629
Location: Puerto Rico

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:54 pm Reply with quote
If and when funding is available for me. CROWDS and Dusk Maiden of Amnesia are going on my shelf. The shows look way too good to pass up.

I'm not at all averse to shows changing atmospheres or even concepts, yet retaining their titles. Kamen Rider and Super Sentai do it all the time, in spite of the monster-of-the-week trappings. The only thing the Dinosaur-themed shows have in common are, well, the dinosaur theme. There's no comparing Zyuranger to Abaranger to Kyoryuger.

Same with Kamen Rider: Kuuga is slow and atmospheric, more a live-action drama than a tokusatsu show (yet still for kids--hardcore!). Den-O was silly, light-hearted, and always at a climax! Etc, etc.

I'm interested in CROWDS because I want to see how little it has in common with the original. A sequel shouldn't be behelden to its prequel at all--else we get the Zelda series' inability to move past Ocarina of Time when it should be more like Majora's Mask or WindWaker.

*paints a huge target on chest, dons sunglasses*
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leatherhead333



Joined: 15 Aug 2013
Posts: 764
Location: Kansas

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:51 pm Reply with quote
Aylinn wrote:
Quote:
I think it would also be interesting and illuminating to ask younger folk who had no prior experience with Gatchaman as to what they think of Crowds.


It was successful enough to have announced second season, so I suppose it must have been popular among new fans.


That's not quite always the case. If you look at sales numbers 2 cour anime generally don't do as well as one cour anime. Why? Because even hardcore otaku can't afford to be constantly spending so much money on one anime like that. That's why shounen anime have crappy sales pretty much all the time expect when it comes to movies. It's likely the show had a budget for 2 seasons to begin with. I mean by the time they announced a second season they hadn't even made a single disc sale. The boxset with all 13 episodes didn't even go on sale until recently. I actually like that they did it that way though. Not only did it save buyers around 200 dollars but it gave you plenty of time to save up for it.

So by splitting up the seasons you allow fans of the show to save up money for the next installment. It's a common practice now and really doesn't have anything to do with popularity if they announce a second season shortly after the anime ends.
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danilo07



Joined: 25 Dec 2011
Posts: 1416

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:08 pm Reply with quote
leatherhead333 you theory is wrong on so many levels.First for every single split cours anime that has come into existence,we know that they will be split cours before they start airing,not after the first cours has ended.Second the gap between two cours is never bigger than one season,the gap between two seasons of Crowds will be at least a year(if they planned it as split cours,they sure planned it badly).And third,you are completely ignoring the TV ratings,time-slot and who the producer of the show was. It aired late at night( 3 a.m. I believe),had 1,7 rating(very high for late night slot) and is almost entirely produced by NTV(the broadcaster).All of this really indicates that the second season was created due to its TV ratings,and that it was not planned as split cours.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 1402
Location: Virginia, United States

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:24 pm Reply with quote
Durga wrote:
Battle of the Planets fascinates as an early example of how early anime got here to the states. Those 7-zark-7 scenes are hilariously awful, but some of the stuff they managed to keep from the original series I thought was kind of cool, and hearing old-school voice actors Casey Kasem and Alan Young was a treat. Obviously I didn't see it in its original run. I'm a little too young for that, but it was neat seeing what Sandy Frank made out of the original cartoon. I may have to check out that puppy episode though.

Crowds... ick. Did not dig in the slightest mostly due to Hajime's obnoxious antics, or really any character for that matter. I thought they were all flat and unlikable. Certainly the original Gatchaman wasn't an example of complex characterization, but for as simple as they were you at least wanted to see them save the day. Didn't help that the new aesthetics felt all over the place and the CG costumes (admittedly they weren't used often) were ugly. Sorry, I could not get behind the Crowds hype, and I'm baffled at how they'll continue this story with a second season when the first season barely had enough story for 12 episodes.


That shouldn't be a problem at all. There are always new villains waiting in the wings, ready to take over the world or destroy it.
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Philmister978



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:30 pm Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
Philmister978 wrote:
Um Mike, not sure where you got your information, but I'm pretty sure Hanna-Barbara didn't do the newly-added footage for BoTP.


You're correct, Hanna-Barbera never got themselves involve with anime. This was all Sandy Frank work.

Another great article, Mike!!! Thanks for doing this. Nice retrospectives on Gatchaman.


Wasn't H-B involved with "Ultraman: The Adventure Begins"?
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 3767
Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:34 pm Reply with quote
Philmister978 wrote:


Wasn't H-B involved with "Ultraman: The Adventure Begins"?


Thanks for reminding me, but that was the only anime HB was involved, but I checked, HB was never involved with Gatchaman. Sandy Frank was the one behind Battle of the Planet, and G-force. I don't count HB's Godzilla as anime.
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leatherhead333



Joined: 15 Aug 2013
Posts: 764
Location: Kansas

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:52 pm Reply with quote
danilo07 wrote:
leatherhead333 you theory is wrong on so many levels.First for every single split cours anime that has come into existence,we know that they will be split cours before they start airing,not after the first cours has ended.Second the gap between two cours is never bigger than one season,the gap between two seasons of Crowds will be at least a year(if they planned it as split cours,they sure planned it badly).And third,you are completely ignoring the TV ratings,time-slot and who the producer of the show was. It aired late at night( 3 a.m. I believe),had 1,7 rating(very high for late night slot) and is almost entirely produced by NTV(the broadcaster).All of this really indicates that the second season was created due to its TV ratings,and that it was not planned as split cours.


My post wasn't entirely pointed towards the case of Gatchaman Crowds it simply explaining why shows do split cours in the first place (because it's a smarter business practice). Since this is a TV station produced anime (i think) the Ad-revenue on the TV network is where the production budget and the big profits come from so yeah you are probably right. I think I should have looked into that first Laughing
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