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REVIEW: Jormungand Perfect Order BD+DVD


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Echo_City



Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 1236

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:36 pm Reply with quote
Mark Stoddard being a gun nut is interesting, almost as interesting as his underused self getting a role, but I don't think that it is enough for me to buy into this wonky Black Lagoon wannabe. I wanted to like this, but it was too unrealistic to be a serious show and it wasn't humorous enough to be a comedy show.

I'm not surprised to read that the dub flubbed it as Micah Solusod just doesn't have it, not from what I've heard. Same for Munoz. C'mon Funimation, let me focus my bad dub criticism on the true "problem areas": Bang/Zoom and, especially, Studiopolis. Laughing

...I don't understand why the creators of this made a female lead who looks more masculine than many male anime characters. I prefer my action shows to not have even faint undertones of gender ambiguity but if they must have it then I'd prefer it if they didn't "explore" it through a half-deranged virago and her "reverse harem" of hardened mercenaries (who must be despairingly desperate).
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getchman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:14 pm Reply with quote
seems kinda silly to expect every funimation dub to be perfect and free of criticism from you.
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Echo_City



Joined: 03 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:48 pm Reply with quote
getchman wrote:
seems kinda silly to expect every funimation dub to be perfect and free of criticism from you.
Perhaps, but that is my goal: dub perfection. Funimation is the closest to attaining it (if only Sentai could rise to ADV's level...) and as such I don't like to see them bumble or start to slack off. Especially with shows like these (of which I find far too many), shows where the bulk of their value comes from the dub-the "proverbial" spice on the bland food.

With Japanese voice acting by and large adhering to a paradigm that annoys the crap out of me I can't abide by dubs being weak. At least Munoz made the virago closer to being a character than did her seiyu, who left her as a mere archetype (said paradigm) that we've experienced time and time again.
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 343

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:51 pm Reply with quote
Wait the final arc, spoiler[the one where we learn why Koko built the quantum computer, to "stop war"]? That was such a dumb arc, I was buying the manga and absolutely enjoying them until I watched that final arc and apparently the manga follow the same story so I didn't even buy the last one.

spoiler[It's just such a dumb idea that obviously wouldn't work and skip over the fact that building a quantum computer would allow such insane leap in science (say cure every single disease, severely reduce waste, create dirt cheap material and energy source) that you would have a much better shot at stoping war by using it for science. Using it to monitor everything is just wasting it's potential, not to mention again would absolutely not work, anyone who ever read an history book would be able to tell you that. I don't mind so much Koko trying to do it, she's nuts and that's fine, but everyone agreeing with her? C'mon Lehm, you're supposed to be smart.]

Other than the final arc the show is awesome, one of the few actually morally grey show who actually dare to talk about touchy subject without just going "there bad, m'kay". But man that final arc.
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Great Rumbler



Joined: 03 Oct 2006
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Location: Oklahoma

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:25 pm Reply with quote
Echo_City wrote:
...I don't understand why the creators of this made a female lead who looks more masculine than many male anime characters. I prefer my action shows to not have even faint undertones of gender ambiguity but if they must have it then I'd prefer it if they didn't "explore" it through a half-deranged virago and her "reverse harem" of hardened mercenaries (who must be despairingly desperate).


Funny, that's actually part of the reason I like Jormungand so much.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:23 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, the spoiler[whole "stop war forever by taking over the world with a computer" is not only an exercise in utter stupidity and futility, it also belies a dangerous anti-progress bent and a misanthropic view.]
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AsherFischell



Joined: 24 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:51 pm Reply with quote
Echo_City wrote:
getchman wrote:
seems kinda silly to expect every funimation dub to be perfect and free of criticism from you.
Perhaps, but that is my goal: dub perfection. Funimation is the closest to attaining it (if only Sentai could rise to ADV's level...) and as such I don't like to see them bumble or start to slack off. Especially with shows like these (of which I find far too many), shows where the bulk of their value comes from the dub-the "proverbial" spice on the bland food.

With Japanese voice acting by and large adhering to a paradigm that annoys the crap out of me I can't abide by dubs being weak. At least Munoz made the virago closer to being a character than did her seiyu, who left her as a mere archetype (said paradigm) that we've experienced time and time again.


Rise to ADV's level? ADV had horrible dubs, just like Sentai does. Also, you do know that the simple act of using words that generally aren't used in normal conversation doesn't magically make you more intelligent, right? I mean, come on, using "virago" and "paradigm" when talking about voice acting? You're so pretentious that it hurts.
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DangerMouse



Joined: 25 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:06 pm Reply with quote
Great Rumbler wrote:
Echo_City wrote:
...I don't understand why the creators of this made a female lead who looks more masculine than many male anime characters. I prefer my action shows to not have even faint undertones of gender ambiguity but if they must have it then I'd prefer it if they didn't "explore" it through a half-deranged virago and her "reverse harem" of hardened mercenaries (who must be despairingly desperate).


Funny, that's actually part of the reason I like Jormungand so much.


Agreed, loved Koko and so glad she was there as the lead.
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Mango Tea



Joined: 20 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:46 pm Reply with quote
DangerMouse wrote:
Great Rumbler wrote:


Funny, that's actually part of the reason I like Jormungand so much.


Agreed, loved Koko and so glad she was there as the lead.


Never posted here before, but I decided to break that trend of mine to say this:

I completely agree. I love everything about Koko. To be honest, I think she's plenty feminine. Not once did I get any inclination that she was anything but. That's part of the reason I love her so much. She's feminine, yet she holds her own (and more) against everyone that comes up against her. She's strong and plenty cute to boot.

Oh yeah, one more thing...

@Echo_City: What's wrong with a little bit of ambiguity? Or a lot of it, for that matter. I didn't get any sort of vibe like that from Jormungand, but even if I had... there wouldn't have been anything wrong with it.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:59 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
That said, it can really wreck the show. Not because anyone does anything unprofessional—although you get a niggling sense, especially when things get hammy, that the dub team doesn't always get the show—but for the brutally simple reason that the cast can't hack it. They do a perfectly decent job, and decent isn't nearly enough. The dub is simultaneously broader and flatter than the original, acted with (sometimes too much) color but not enough nuance or raw commitment. That's particularly true of Anastasia Munoz, who struggles well with Koko's thorny layers but ultimately can't help flattening her out.


It's not often I agree with Carl, but I too feel this way. While I normally don't watch dubs, I always like to check out dubs of shows not set in Japan and for English/non-JP characters. I actually was looking forward to this one because Black Lagoon's dub was fantastic.

But the operative word that characterizes this dub is as Carl states "flat". It's as if Koko's personality was filtered leaving all the subtle and not-so-subtle characteristics that define her behind. I think there's a mismatch between the characters and English voice acting direction here.
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:03 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Yeah, the spoiler[whole "stop war forever by taking over the world with a computer" is not only an exercise in utter stupidity and futility, it also belies a dangerous anti-progress bent and a misanthropic view.]



I found myself spoiler[ agreeing with Kaspar. All Koko's plan would do is make war less convenient. Like Kaspar said, "Take their guns and I'll sell them swords." Koko claimed that massive wars would break out over water, and from what I can tell, that problem would still exist, even with Jormungand around, and I'm guessing if people are dying of thirst, they won't let a computer keep them from getting water.]


Overall, I really liked this show, but the ultimate plan seemed pretty poorly thought out.
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navycherub



Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:51 pm Reply with quote
I interpreted what Kaspar said there as being very reflective of what reality would be like post-Jormungand, and that is why the story ends where it does. Because Koko's role is over, and the result of her plan is up to the viewer.
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jr0904



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 1945
Location: New York City,New York,USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:35 pm Reply with quote
and people say that the ending for blood C was bad.


sure its not perfect, but this is downright atrocious. whether it have a good english dub or not, nothing is worth an ending like that.

Definitely makes me glad that Adult Swim didn't get the broadcast license for this series cause it wouldnt have worked at all. season 1 yes but definitely not season 2.
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getchman
He started itHe started it


Joined: 07 Apr 2012
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Location: Cheshire, CT

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:09 pm Reply with quote
by the time anyone watching the show for the first time on toonami realized that that was the ending, it wouldn't matter. the show would be over, having run its course and the next show would take it's place.
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One-Eye



Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Posts: 1234

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:13 pm Reply with quote
The ending and the logic of Koko's plan was terribly disappointing to me. However, I might have picked Jormungand up anyways if it had something like a good or even a fun dub. Koko and Valmet were fun characters. Especially Koko, you would think it would be an opportunity for an actor to really go to town with that role. But once I heard the dub it just killed whatever enthusiasm I had for the show. Saying it was "flat" is maybe a tad too generous. Koko, just didn't come off as Koko in the dub. I think I also might have spotted a moment or two were they flubbed it with the lip flaps and I usually don't notice that stuff. I was surprised because generally I'm ok with Funi dubs. I'm not blown away by them, but I think they've had some good ones and some that are just serviceable. For Jormungand the episodes I sampled (1st season) felt sub-par for them.
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