Forum - View topicChaika - The Coffin Princess (both seasons) (TV).
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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Uh, no. I have no idea why you have a blind spot about the fact that there is another extremely "practical" option other than simply abandoning the quest or continuing mindlessly on it. I've already stated it but perhaps if I capitalize it you'll be able to understand this time? SOLVE THE MYSTERY OF WHO IS BEHIND THE PROGRAMMING. TRY TO FIND OUT WHY SOMEBODY WANTS ALL THE BODY PARTS. Jesus, why is this so hard for you to acknowledge as a course of action? As I've already said before, Toru and Akari will co-operate in whatever mission Chaika undertakes so she does not risk "losing" them if she acts intelligently instead of simply plowing ahead with her original intention GIVEN THAT THERE ARE CLEAR INDICATIONS THAT DOING SO MIGHT NOT BE THE WISEST OF MOVES. |
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Yttrbio
 Posts: 3652 |
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What could they possibly do to solve that, aside from collecting the parts?
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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Simple: try to find somebody that knows some relevant information. Right now, Chaika is getting her information from that dude who helpfully tells her where to go. How tough would it be to invent a character who comes to Chaika and says, "You should go to the Temple of Wallawallabingbang. Ye'll find out something interesting there."
Or Chaika could go back to where she remembers waking up. Maybe there is something significant in that area. If the writers want her to get on a mission of solving the mystery, they can come up with anything they like. It's not like collecting the body parts is the only option for getting answers. I mean sure that's one way to find out what the real deal is, but if the outcome really is something bad it's a little late by that point, isn't it? |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15462 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I am pretty sure the helpful guy is exactly who is getting the Chaikas to do it, rather than a convenience it is the clue to what is happening. I would guess that if she abandoned her mission she would not get visited by that guy anymore, the trail might get cold, or she might get sold out to another Chaika. On an aside note, it looked like spoiler[there might be multiple of them as one was seen on either side of Gillette before the bright flash]. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2842 |
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Guy isn't prejudiced against any of the Chaikas, unless they go the way of Blue Chaika thus forcing him to intervene like he did in the last episode.
Outside of him, both Toru and Akari keep their ears out for rumours regarding the empire. Anything they hear, they investigate to see if they can get a lead on the relics without relying on Guy. Thus far, the adaptation of the 1st half of the series does not deviate from the formula of Guy providing info which they bite since they tend to have nothing else to go on. This spoiler[changes for the 2nd half of the series with interesting consequences.] |
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One-Eye
 Posts: 2261 |
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Sure there are other options. They could always take the approach of investigating the Emperor. Who was he that someone wants her to collect his remains? It was an Empire someone had to run it, someone had to have contact with him. Investigating the administration that ran his Kingdom would be one way to go. Plus there's always the magic route. The world has magic right? It has the power to alter or implant memories, to fly, to shoot energy beams and power vehicles. Surely there has to be a way of using magic to gather information. Right? So there are other options for discovering leads.
The story hasn't gone that route mainly because it was concerned with gathering body parts and the motivations for gathering those body parts wasn't being questioned too strongly because it hadn't quite reached a tipping point where it needed to be addressed. However, after the last couple of episodes we are definitely getting there. In the second season it would be prudent that our little band start questioning if gathering remains for a proper burial is all that's going on. If it just keeps with the pick up odd body part per week format then that might become a little disappointing. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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They're already well aware that collecting Gax's body parts is Dangerous and that there are those who are using White Chaika for this purpose, almost certainly including the guy giving them information.
However, White Chaika (and all the other Chaikas) are wanted by the government. They have no power base and no support *except* the very flimsy bit provided by Mysterious Information Guy... and each other. And since MIG will probably sell them out if they stop or get too rebellious, they have to keep going and, while doing that, try to find out any other information that they can. This is why they questioned the guys who were trying to restore the Gax empire (the thieves). And what did they find out? That the common people of the Gax Empire had no clue about what their leader was really like, or even what his actual motives are. Gillette, who had access to information (at least more than the MCs do), was similarly unable to find out much of anything about Gax. There really isn't any viable alternatives but to keep on trying to collect body parts. They all realize this. And the show *has* shown that they are trying to learn more beyond just blindly following orders, and presumably they'll accumulate enough info to start to piece things together before they finish gathering all the body parts. Seriously, all of the above has been shown over the various episodes so far, so it's not like I'm pulling this out of the air here. |
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lesterf1020
 Subscriber Posts: 292 Location: Trinidad and Tobago |
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I understand perfectly the desire for an investigation and the suspicion that something is very wrong but where do you start? Who do you ask? Gillette and co have been doing this for some time with state resources and a magician and he has nothing but rumors and hearsay. Even former members of the empire seem ignorant. The only people who have given anything resembling concrete info are the Chaika's and the heroes who held the body parts and the only way to find them is to pursue the parts yourself.
So at this point I am genuinely curious since this seems glaringly obvious to others. How do you do this investigation without pursuing the body parts? |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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That would be for the writers to decide. Okay I guess your imagination doesn't even allow you to hypothesize about how such an investigation might be conducted. I guess your imagination is on a figurative railway track and all you can think of is to "get body parts get body parts get body parts get body parts." Here's the mindblowing thing about writers who do have imaginations: they can easily figure out interesting ways such an investigation might unfold. I mean, the writers decided it would be cool if the party had a powerful dragoon who came in loli form. And lo and behold such a thing came to pass. I'm not going to spoonfeed you imaginary details about how such an investigation might unfold. It is truly sad you can't even conceive how such a thing might happen. But take my word for it - it can. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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Blood-,
In other words, you came up with a premise that you don't know how to execute, but claim that others should do it anyway, because that's the way you want it. Heh. Too funny. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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Uh no, genius. Why should I bother coming up with my own specific details? The relevant point is that, conceptually speaking, it's not like the writers have backed themselves into a corner they can't get out off. It's not like they're in a situation where there's only the two lester options: MINDLESSLY GATHER BODY PARTS or GIVE UP AND DO NOTHING. Anyone that thinks that is retarded. And anyone who thinks I need to fill in the specific details that proves that basic point is equally retarded. |
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Yttrbio
Posts: 3652 |
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Earlier, you were talking about Chaika's options, so I responded in those terms, but if you're talking about the writing decisions... I don't really see it. Does having them investigate using other means really make for a better story? I don't see why it would. Having them gather parts puts them in a position where finding out what they want to find out is dangerous and increases stakes over time. While certainly not the most original approach to storytelling in the world, it's popular for a reason.
On the other hand, if they go off investigating some other way, find out "oh, crap this is bad" and then stop gathering the parts... that sounds like a pretty lame ending to me. |
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Cenobite451
 Posts: 12 Location: Guelph, ON (or thereabouts) |
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Emphasis mine. Basically you're asking for a deus ex machina - there's no in-universe reason that such a character must exist. Chaika and co. can't exactly operate on the assumption that they'll find someone with all the answers just because it would be narratively convenient. So we're back to A) keep gathering the parts, since those are the only actionable clues they have to go on, or B) give up. B would end the story - and drive the characters insane, if they're anything like me - so there's really only one direction left. Adding your proposed option C would just be lazy writing. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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@ Yttrbio - for me it makes for a better story because then I'm not in the position where I have contempt for the intelligence of the characters whose exploits I'm following. It's like if I'm watching a show where characters are given pretty decent indications that the room they are about to enter will blow up if they open the door and they just shrug their shoulders and open the door anyway without taking any precautions.
This is going to be a shock to some of you apparently, but like most shows of this type, the basic plot is simply fighting. Our heroes are on _____ quest during which they encounter _____ foes. They fight those foes and prevail. What the ______ quest is, is almost irrelevant. In the specific case of this show, the quest started out to be to collect body parts. There is absolutely no reason the quest couldn't switch to finding out who is behind the programming and why they are doing it. Our gang would still encounter weird and wonderful things, they'd still fight foes and prevail - it's just they'd be doing it in the service of an intelligent mission instead of a stupid one. Does anyone here really believe that whomever is behind the programming is only interested in giving Gaz a proper funeral? Of course not. Aren't you curious what the real reason is? I am. I just wish our characters were, too. |
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Yttrbio
Posts: 3652 |
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But you have contempt for the characters' intelligence because the writers didn't throw them an alternative. Given what the writers have provided, I think their approach is the one to solve the mystery (and I disagree that they don't seem curious about it). I don't think it makes sense to say the characters are stupid because the writers haven't given them an alternative approach.
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