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Hey, Answerman! [2006-09-29]


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God Gundam



Joined: 05 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:24 pm Reply with quote
Viz didn't edit Bleach.
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bahamut623



Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:31 pm Reply with quote
Honorifics have no direct translation to English(in the honor they convey), and don't have any place in an English dub. It does not affect the story, unless Ichigo calling Orihime by her last name is the glue that holds the Bleach universe together (I think that's a plot twist Kubotite probably won't use). "Ichi-bro"????Seriously??
And their translations aren't inconsistent. Inconsistent would be switching from Soul Reaper to Death God in the same dub or something. And "Soul Slayer' is just a moniker derived from the fansubs anyway. My one problem with the dub is that I don't think Ichigo's voice suits him. The rest is great. Viz is the best, sorry.
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Cowboy Cadenza



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 243
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:42 pm Reply with quote
Zac, I love the way you respond to your Flakes of the Week. Very Happy

As for the rant: the complaints stated about the Bleach dub are all incredibly miniscule and affect the story in no way. Honorifics aren't used in English, so I don't see how they could put them in the dub. And to be honest, the fact that respect is important in Japan should have no bearing on the dub, since I highly doubt anyone in Japan is going to be watching it.
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one3rd



Joined: 28 Jul 2003
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Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:54 pm Reply with quote
bahamut623 wrote:
Honorifics have no direct translation to English(in the honor they convey), and don't have any place in an English dub.


I agree completely. I think this, in general, is perhaps my biggest problem with English dubs. They're not completely translated into English. By this, I mean they often don't convey natural (American) English speaking patterns. In English, honorifics aren't used, so they shouldn't be used in dubs. We don't address our siblings as "brother" or "sister," instead we use their given names. Now, when doing subtitles, the story is different. A word-for-word translation would be more desirable since the words on the screen should match what is actually being said. Unfortunately, it may be the sub "purists" who have influenced the anime companies to include non-English elements in their English dubs.
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Fronzel



Joined: 11 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:12 am Reply with quote
But...Ichigo's sisters do call him funny names. The dark-haired one tends to call him "Ichi" from what I can remember. It's been a long time since I watched the fansubs.

Harping on non-translatable cultural issues like that is...overzealous.


The strange thing I noticed during the first episode of the dub was that when the monster attacked, Ichigo's sisters begged him for help...I seem to recall them telling him to run away and save himself in the fansub and the manga.

Prince of Tennis was licensed?
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Someone_II



Joined: 02 Jan 2006
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Location: Right behind you, watching you as you type...

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:14 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Respect is very important in Japanese culture and I can only frown when Viz decides to take that out as they have in Prince of Tennis, Hikaru no Go, and now Bleach.
...What? Due to being Canadian I havn't seen the PoT dub so I can't comment on that, but what did they do to HiKago? They left sensei, senpai and I wouldn't be too suprised if I eventually hear koupai. Onigaishimasu, most of the go lingo, go go igo, etc. were all left intact. While some argue that the dub was horrible, even it wasn't too bad. As I begin volume four my only gripe with the dub is that, at times, Hikaru sounds a bit too old and even that is something you get used to after a while.

Quote:
One has to go out of their way to edit the script and make changes, and the changes are just plain old completely unnecessary. There's just no point and it saddens me when people approach me saying Viz is the best when it comes to translation. Maybe their translations are fine, but their edits are horrible and that's all Viz does - edit, edit, edit.
Actually, thanks to the lax moderation on you tube*, I was able to watch the two side by side. One thing I notced was that (honorifics aside) the better part of the time I felt like I was watching captions.

Quote:
I just know you would never see Tokyopop or Del Rey doing this.
Three words, dude: Initial D Dub.

*after completeing my analysis I reported the videos. Weather or not they're gone now is something I don't know.
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Cowboy Cadenza



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:21 am Reply with quote
Quote:
I just know you would never see Tokyopop or Del Rey doing this.


Wait, are we talking about the Bleach anime or the Bleach manga here? Because I was under the impression that Tokyopop and Del Ray don't produce English dubs for anime...
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:38 am Reply with quote
Quote:
It has a really solid dub, probably one of the best I've heard in a videogame since Metal Gear Solid 3.


So you're saying Valkyrie Profile 2 has a lot of people whining and doing stupid poses too? Rolling Eyes

Quote:
they get asked about it at every convention and they...don't really say much aside from the fact that they "want" to release it but apparently the company is extremely small and only has the capacity to release maybe 1-2 discs per year, and since Tennimon never sold very well at all, it's a pretty low priority.


I'm not really surprised Tenshi Ni Narumon sold poorly after that horrible ad for it on the FLCL dvds. Pro-tip: Promoting a tv show like an infomercial only appeals to the people in suits who came up with the idea. Anyway, Synch Point should just sell the rights to Animeigo or Right Stuf or something.


Last edited by GATSU on Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Someone_II



Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 167
Location: Right behind you, watching you as you type...

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:44 am Reply with quote
Cowboy Cadenza wrote:
Quote:
I just know you would never see Tokyopop or Del Rey doing this.


Wait, are we talking about the Bleach anime or the Bleach manga here? Because I was under the impression that Tokyopop and Del Ray don't produce English dubs for anime...
Tokyopop did a few including Initial D, GTO, Marmalade Boy. Though I've never seen them I'm pretty sure GTO and MB got out slightly scaithed at worst. Initial D wasn't so lucky...it became more americainized than some 4Kids dubs. Though they clearly wern't aiming it at kids (the language and rating is proof of that), they also missed many of their teen target demo with some horrible alterations/cliches in the dub (as well as the level of acceptance given to anime back then) the only people who bought it were sub-only/sub prefering viewers..
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chrisb



Joined: 07 May 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:04 am Reply with quote
I didn't know Bokura Ga Ita would appeal to adults, it feels very much like an American teen drama, which I think is cool. I can really relate with the characters' issues and dilemmas and I guess I see some of myself in them too, but I suppose it could appeal to adults and their memories of their first loves. I agree it is a good show that you could view with a teenage child and you can talk about it. Although I wouldn't want to watch the sex episode with my parents lol.
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:51 am Reply with quote
Nobody knows how to spell any more...
Quote:
So what happened here? Bad sales? Did Synch-Point get over-whelmed with the work they'd done for FLCL? Did they loose the rights for it?
Just because it looks like it rhymes with "choose," doesn't mean that it does...it's "lose," "loose" is the opposite of "tight" Rolling Eyes Anyway, this same question came up at AnimeNation's AskJohn:
Quote:
Question: Any chance in hell that Synch-Point will release more Tenshi ni Narumon on DVD? I bought all 3 DVDs years ago and am still waiting to see what happens.
Answer: I think that recent American acquisitions including Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, Yawara, Taro the Dragon Boy, and Puss 'n' Boots prove that when it comes to current American anime releases, nothing is completely impossible nor totally unlikely. However, regrettably, a completed American release of Tenshi ni Narumon is closer to totally unlikely than probable. I think the odds of Synch-Point finishing its release of Tenshi ni Narumon ranks just slightly better than the odds of Media Blasters finishing its release of Fortune Quest L, and Urban Vision finishing its release of Strange Dawn. So I don't think that the release of more DVD volumes of Tenshi ni Narumon is the absolute most unlikely American release to come out of hiatus.

Unlike Hirameki's release of Soar High! Isami, and Toei's releases of Air Master and Slam Dunk, which have all been outright unofficially canceled, the American release of Tenshi ni Narumon is simply on indefinite hiatus, as far as I know. So the odds of Synch-Point re-starting the release are slim, but not entirely zero. However, you, me, and probably only a few hundred other American anime fans are all that purchased the Tenshi ni Narumon DVDs, which is probably not enough sales to have even recovered the series' licensing and production costs. Considering that series' DVD sales typically decrease with consecutive volumes, and awareness and availability of the existing Tenshi ni Narumon DVDs has virtually evaporated, it's probably not a wise financial move for Synch-Point to attempt releasing the rest of the series. Despite what a handful of fans may prefer, it's smart not to throw more money into an already sinking ship. Tenshi ni Narumon is a well animated, beautiful looking, and highly memorable show. And Synch-Point went to commendable lengths to make its American DVD release appealing to hardcore anime fans. But the tastes of the majority of America's anime consumers are too narrowly defined to include a bizarre, ultra-cute yet twisted series like "I'm Gonna Be An Angel."
I've heard about this hiatus business, but I've never seen much of "I'm gonna be an Angel." *looks at trailer* Hmm, not one of the better trailers I've seen; sad to say, but most fans don't care about studio, directors, character designers and all that...they want to know what the anime's about and what kind of entertainment it's going to provide. Idk if that trailer accomplishes that goal.

The Rant: The Zanpakutou thing reminds me of the SNES game SoulBlazer, where you could get 8 swords, which were the Sword of Life, Psycho Sword, Critical Sword, Lucky Blade, Zantetsu, Spirit Sword, Recovery Blade, and Soul Blade. The question is, obviously, why the "Zantetsu"? And, after learning some Japanese and watching Bleach, I figured out that "Zantetsutou" means "Steel-cutting Sword" (fittingly, since it allows you to kill metal monsters in early areas of the game that were invincible before getting it), just as "Zanpakutou" means "Soul-cutting Sword." Surely they could have found a semi-literal translation that sounds cool in English.
But, I was also impressed by the acting quality that I saw in the first episode, and I didn't notice too many "respect" issues. I'm kind of on the fence these days...I'm in favor of dubs being faithful to the original script, and capturing those little nuances that indicate status and respect. However, there's a certain point where too much "Japaneseness" causes awkward English and dubs that don't flow well and aren't enjoyable. I think Viz is sacrificing just a little bit on the "respect" to make an entertaining and natural-sounding dub. As others have pointed out, it's not that common to address older siblings by title in English, and I really don't mind if they mix things up a bit, like with Takumi's role in Bandai's My-Hime, where he does call Mai "Mai" a few times. I'd especially lead towards Anglicization when it comes to "figurative" sibling relationships. On the Orihime vs. Inoue bit: Perhaps Viz is trying to avoid confusion on this one--hardcore fans/fansub viewers can tell that he's calling her by her last name in Japanese, but in English, casual viewers might be confused by Ichigo calling her one name and everyone else calling her something else. Overall, I agree with the ranter that Viz has issues; I'm automatically wary of anything being released by them that's not shounen anime with 70+ episodes.
Someone_II wrote:
Tokyopop did a few including Initial D, GTO, Marmalade Boy. Though I've never seen them I'm pretty sure GTO and MB got out slightly scathed at worst.
I watched a few episodes of Marmalade Boy dubbed, and while it's not a "great" dub, it's not terrible, either--it's decent and watchable, with the ordinary normalizations and alterings done for dub scripts, no major content edits.
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PantsGoblin
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:34 am Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
Quote:
It has a really solid dub, probably one of the best I've heard in a videogame since Metal Gear Solid 3.


So you're saying Valkyrie Profile 2 has a lot of people whining and doing stupid poses too? Rolling Eyes


What does that have to do with the quality of the dub?

But god, I 100% agree with the video game thing. Waaaay too many great games coming out at the same time. Lately, I have been away from the forum more often because I was playing Disgaea 2... but, this is just the start. I'll probably be away for a while when Abyss comes out too. I haven't got around to any of the Valkyrie Profile games yet though... my friend is in love with it though, and has been bugging me it for a while, so I'll probably have to get that too... I currently spent most of my money on Rightstuf's sale, and only have enough to get Abyss when it comes out. But uh, there's still a lot more I'll have to get too, I may have to put them on hold for a while...

For some reason, I had no idea you were into RPGs though. I guess something like Valkryie Profile isn't necessarily anime, but the influences are obvious. I seriously think you should do reviews on them once in a while.


Last edited by PantsGoblin on Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
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Location: England, UK

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:36 am Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
Nobody knows how to spell any more...
Quote:
So what happened here? Bad sales? Did Synch-Point get over-whelmed with the work they'd done for FLCL? Did they loose the rights for it?
Just because it looks like it rhymes with "choose," doesn't mean that it does...it's "lose," "loose" is the opposite of "tight" Rolling Eyes
Careful Zalis. You'll be labelled a "Grammar Nazi". Allegedly it's not "cool " to be literate. Wink

I remember Petrea Burchard saying that when she first started dubbing Tenchi Muyo she was in the booth with Matt Miller, but it was soon found by the Director that it was more productive to voice it individually. I can understand why too as if one actor does a perfect take but the other fluffs his, or her lines, that perfect take could be a nightmare to get the same way again. Best to get the good one in the can, and work on the duff one on it's own.


Last edited by Mohawk52 on Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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Wyvern



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 632

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:42 am Reply with quote
Good point on the voice acting responce. A lot of the time studios like Disney release footage of two or three of the big-name stars of one of its upcoming movie joking around in the recording booth, and people think that's an everyday occurance. What people don't realize is that the day they shoot the publicity footage is usually one of very few days (if not the only day) there's more than one actor there at a time. Besides, Disney has the money to make it worth an actor's while to shuffle his schedule so he can record with someone else. Most studios don't, even some big ones. I was amazed when I learned that most of the banter between Shrek and Donkey was recorded weeks apart in entierly different cities.
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Deltakiral



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:10 am Reply with quote
PantsGoblin wrote:
But god, I 100% agree with the video game thing. Waaaay too many great games coming out at the same time. Lately, I have been away from the forum more often because I was playing Disgaea 2... but, this is just the start.


Not to mention that there are two new systems coming out in November later this year.....there are a lot of games coming out that I am interested in. I have already preorder FFXII as well as the SE .Hack/GU Rebirth and I am fairly certain when I have anytime those games with be dominating my free time. Not to mention that guitar hero is still taking over the world.....such a problem....but then again look at the anime industry....every con is within 2 months of each other now that is a crazy schedule.
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