Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2006-09-29]
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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I'm glad to hear I'm not the only person "suffering" from too many RPGs. I just bought Valkyrie Profile 2, but I probably won't play it for a while since Tales of the Abyss comes out soon and I don't know that I have time to finish it before it comes out. And then I still have Final Fantasy 12 and numerous other games I have yet to beat. I, too, was relieved when Ar Tonelico was pushed back. I'm interested in Rogue Galaxy, but I'll wait until I read some reviews before I decide to get it. As for the rant: I see where Cave is coming from on the Zanpakutou issue. I personally don't mind that they keep some terms in Japanese but translate others. Although I do think it was referred to as a "Soul Slayer" in the Viz manga, or at least in early printings. I'm fine with the term "zanpakutou", but I kind of wish they had translated the term for the spells ("Demon Arts" in the fansub, though I am sure there are other possible translations). However, I hope they keep the term "bankai" as it is. For the honorifics... it can work in dubs, and I think some have done it before or at least they kept "sempai" in it. -chan, -kun, etc., are important in the Japanese language, but it would be really awkward in English, particularly for a series being aimed at a large audience that isn't familiar with the Japanese language and honorifics. Referring to people by their last names is equally awkward if you don't understand how it works in Japanese. Again, it could be done, but it is probably unwise for a series being targeted at a large audience beyond the typical/hard core anime fans. |
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MarthaC
Posts: 35 Location: U.S.A. |
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Me too! My first fandom goes back to Kimba and Astro Boy. My interest in anime was revived thanks to the movies that SciFi channel was showing back in the 90's, then came Sailor Moon . . . Now back to the sub/dub translation thing. For me, it depends on my mood on which way I choose to view a DVD. I have one pet peeve with some subtitles, though. I know almost no Japanese, but I know the honorifics and my peeve is I hear the honorific but I'm not seeing it in the sub and it sometimes distracts me enough that I lose a few seconds of sub reading time. Now that I'm thinking about it, there is sometimes a change in the sub with the first name/last name too. Does this bug anyone else? |
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bluepita
 Posts: 465 |
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I find it a bit awkward at times to hear last names used for dubs in the USA. To me, there are certain connotations when a person is speaking English and calling someone by her last name in entertainment. It usually refers to a certain type of friendship, a military background, a connection through sports, or a certain type of male. I would find it odd to hear Ichigo using Inoue's last name in the dub. To me, it would imply a certain type of friendship, as if she was one of the guys, that I don't think really fits. It would work with a lot of the characters, such as Ishida, but not poor Inoue. If they are speaking English, things of that sort need to be taken into consideration.
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silver_omicron
Posts: 132 |
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I think 1 out of every 3 pictures of Japan (Tokyo, more or less) has had a picture of a catgirl in the back.
Sorry Answerman, but it seems hard to swallow that Anime is a young adults "thing" and it isn't like religion over in Japan when that is the image and idea we are fed, even by American Otakus. |
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halochief_90
 Posts: 466 Location: Canada |
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Well, instead of whining why these games aren't sprinkled around during the year, why not go into EB games and pick up that game you missed last year for $20 during the summertime? The games that are obsolete, you wouldn't have bought anyway!
It's sort of pointless to continue arguing about the Bleach dub, but if it's really so bad that Ichigo says Inoue's first name instead, go back to your perfectly translated fansubs. You say you don't expect perfect, but this is just nitpicking. |
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elsie
Posts: 61 Location: Virginia |
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Yes, in the US it would actually be rude for a guy like Ichigo to call a girl like Orihime by her last name, unless he were to say Miss Inoue, which would make him seem dorky. Using US conventions of naming and relationships, it would be more likely for him to call Tatsuki by her last name, since she is more like "one of the guys." |
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Richard J.
 Posts: 3367 Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis. |
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Before I say anything else, I'd like to state for the record that I like the Bleach dub. It's casting is excellent so far, especially Michelle Ruff as Rukia. The script is very good and I have no problem with the whole Shinigami=Soul Reaper thing or the use of Zanpakutou instead of something else.
Now, my thought on the name issue. Bleach is not set in the US nor even in an english speaking part of the world. The story is set in Japan. While I am not offended nor particularly bothered by the dropping of honorifics or the use of first names only, I am very annoyed that Viz seems to think english speaking people are too stupid to grasp the idea that in a foreign culture they might use someone's last name rather than their first. This isn't set in the US and frankly I wish companies wouldn't be so concerned about localization. This is the same mentality, on a lesser scale, as that of 4Kids. We dub fans are considered incapable of grasping something so absurdly simple as the idea that characters in a Japanese show set in Japan might talk to each other like, well, Japanese people. Is it really so bizzare a thing for some people to call someone by their last name instead of their first? Are we english speakers so woefully lacking in brains that we can't comprehend that it has something to do with the differences in the character's relationships? I prefer dubs. I hate subtitles and it's a lot easier for me to form an emotional connection with a character whose speaking my language. But a good dub should be a combination of accurate translation (if not in exact words then at least in clarity of intent) and it should maintain some degree of cultural content. While the Bleach dub is clearly scoring high in the first area, it's suffering in the second. Should every single chan, kun, etc. be in there? No. But what's wrong with at least leaving some of the conventions of the Japanese language present, like the usage of last names? spoiler[Will the denizens of Soul Society, with it's extremely early Japanese society feel, all sound like chummy buddies? And what will they change Yachiru's "Ken-chan" into? "Kenny" like they did in the manga? And Rukia calling Byakuya nii-sama (did I spell that right?) will become. . . what? Just "brother." These particular uses of honorifics denote very specific elements of the characters relationships and don't have simple english equivalents. Why not just leave them, especially given the context of a very old Japanese society?] |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6867 Location: Kazune City |
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hikaru004
 Posts: 2306 |
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On the rant issue:
I liked the Bleach dub and I totally agree with HitokiriShadow on this. Mainstream won't get it, especially at around 2:30 AM CST (the repeat showing). This is entertainment after all and not a lesson in Japanese honorifics. That's what a sub version with translation notes are for. I really thought that it was a nice touch to keep the weapon name in Japanese. I totally hated Ahiru being called Duck in PT. |
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ACDragonMaster
 Posts: 405 |
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Though I'm sure many people have already commented on the rant...
The Bleach dub retains as many of the Japanese terms as possible. Largely because a lot of them don't translate easily, "shinigami" included. However, "shinigami" isn't a word that most western audiences (outside of the anime fandom) will know, therefore it's imperative that that is translated so that the target audience can understand the concept. Words like kidou and zanpakutou, on the other hand, are specific enough and less vital to not require translation, and therefore perhaps better to leave untouched. Basically, someone watching Bleach without any clue as to the Japanese language will hear "zanpakutou" and think "okay, so there's a special name for a Soul Reaper's sword" and that's it. They won't know what it means, necessarily, without looking it up, but knowing the meaning really isn't that important to the story. The name only partially describes the sword's function, anyway, and most of what the purpose of the zanpakutou is shown through what the characters do, rather than the name. Meaning that the name is relatively unimportant, other than having a name to show that hey, this is something special to the setting of the story. And not to mention "zanpakutou" comes pretty close to a proper name, names being things that are generally more hassle to translate than they're worth. |
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Yukimi-chan
 Posts: 19 Location: Hawaii |
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Karin calls Ichigo "Ichi-niisan" which is "Big brother Ichigo" as well as a pun. Ichi, ni, san = one, two, three. But I'm sure many people here knew that. ^^ And yes...Prince of Tennis was licensed. You can watch it on ToonamiJetstream.com (as well as the dubs for MAR, Naruto, Hikaru no Go, etc.). But I must warn you...the voices are SCARY. Traumatic, even.
I'm pretty sure they WILL call Ishida "Uryuu"... ^^;; They've been doing that with everyone else, so I don't know why they'd change it for him. As for Hitsugaya...he might be called Captain Hitsugaya...they do say, "Hitsugaya-taichou" a lot. (I can't remember whether he was called in the english manga...damn.) Only Ichigo really calls him "Toushirou," and I can't remember if any of the others (Chad, Ishida, Orihime, etc.) have addressed him. But back to the rant! I don't think that saying "Soul Society," "Soul Reaper," and "Zanpakutou" will confuse anybody. It's what the main weapon for Shinigami in Bleach is called, so I can't understand why and where someone could get confused. They might not be able to remember the name of it (I know a few people who have trouble remembering Japanese names) but they won't be confused about anything. It's nice that they left "zanpakutou" alone. The same with "kidou" (although the way English!Rukia says it, I almost didn't recognize it). I'm happy that they at least put out an effort and left some Japanese words in. Attacks and the like translated from Japanese to English tend to sound a little clunky to me. |
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Jimi-Jam
 Posts: 1 Location: Across the pond - UK |
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Well I'm not a housewife, or a female for that matter, but i am in my 30's and only discovered the delights of anime a few months ago, and in part down to that same film - Spirited Away has a lot to answer for! I do find myself grappling with the same issues of whether or not anime is actually intended for an audience younger than myself though, specially when so much of it seems to center around characters in their late teens at best. Whatever the case, i'm not letting it spoil my enjoyement just yet. I do like your "...its for anyone who hasn't grown old" |
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elsie
Posts: 61 Location: Virginia |
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I don't care if anime is intended for people younger than I am. As far as I'm concerned, it keeps my inner child alive. When I watch CCS or Princess Tutu, I revert back to being the little girl who wanted to be a ballerina, and I feel happy. Meanwhile, all the shounen stories remind me of when I was obsessively reading The Three Musketeers and books like that.
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Ataru
 Posts: 2306 Location: Missouri (Strikeman) |
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[/quote]It's better then releasing them all in Chirstmas and leaving less money to get games for the Wii.  Any hoop, VP 2 is fun and looks great, but the learning crave is bit harsh at times.
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Cave
Posts: 80 |
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Sorry, I only had time to read through the first page of posts (you people reply too fast!)
I wasn't trying to make it sound like Viz did a craptastical job dubbing Bleach, but there are still some changes that were completely unnecessary. As I said in the rant, the name-thing Viz has been doing is all about respect. In the original Japanese, if Yuzu and Karin called Ichigo "Ichigo", it would show that they didn't respect or view him as an older brother. Dubbing it as "brother" or even "Ichi-bro"(Since they call him Ichi-nii, it kind of goes along the same lines) would have been better. Orihime and Ichigo being on a first name basis is also just odd. Once again, it's about respect and how well the characters know and feel about each other. Referring to them by first names is as if they've been friends for years, which we know they haven't. Changing this can easily change how viewers keen to this type of thing see how the characters interact. They did the same thing in the translation for Prince of Tennis and I can not express how wrong it is when Ryoma is calling the captain, 2-3 years older than him, by his first name, "Kunimitsu." I don't see why fans can't complain about this stuff. Hell, Viz is just unnecessarially making changes that could have easily been the same and had more focus on other parts of the dub. I mean, there was absolutely no reason to change this stuff outside of "Americanization." (The name thing IS nothing more than Americanization. As far as I know, none of my friends call me by my last name ever.) Sorry about the TP and Del Rey comparision. I focus more on manga, so comparing Viz to TP and DR in the mangaverse makes sense. I can't say much about them animewise(well, Del Rey has no anime so). Sorry about that confusion. I tend to ramble on and on about nothing and get lost sometimes. edit:
The point of that one was because it followed a theme, had consistency, and would have made sense. I don't understand their reasoning, if any, behind changing shinigami to 'soul reaper' and yet leaving 'zanpakutou' the same. Anyone have any idea at all whatsoever? |
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I'm the same age, and started in because of the same movie. And during this time I've come across a good 20 other women our age who love anime and manga. Sure, it's not a huge number, but we're out there. When your new hobby gets you viewed as an eccentric at best by other adults who don't know any better, it helps to know that others share it. I always tell people anime isn't for someone who hasn't grown up, it's for anyone who hasn't grown old. 
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