Forum - View topicANNCast - Wayward Sons
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Mudkips
Posts: 9 |
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Brynhildr in the Darkness, I believe.
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lkmjr
Posts: 68 Location: Austin, Texas |
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There's nothing sexist about what you just described, but it's not quite what plays out in PMMM, either. The way PMMM's analogy plays out is sexist because the system of exploitation continues to be so necessary to the survival of the universe that there's little to no hope of getting rid of it. The analogy falls apart because our world, as it exists today, can exist without the continuing systematic exploitation of women, and although it's an uphill battle, the odds of eliminating those systems aren't astronomically stacked against us, as PMMM suggests. (As a side note: saying that the puella magi shaped the history of humanity is fine, it's even pretty feminist, but there's something inherently awful about casting real historical figures like Joan of Arc and Cleopatra as puella magi. It implies a connection between their triumphs and tragedies and their puella magi powers — as though magic is needed to "explain" how these women managed to contribute to history.)
True, PMMM doesn't suggest that the puella magi's fates are just, but it does suggest that selfishness automatically begets punishment, whether or not it is deserved. And that's a message that girls hear all the time: don't ask for too much, put others before yourself, if you get greedy it'll come back to bite you. Sorry, nobody said that life was fair. You know what actually happens to selfish girls? Frequently, they get what they want, whether that's respect or success or recognition, because they actually try. This sort of message is used to keep girls from reaching for the things they want and deserve, all the time. Look, I'm not typically one to argue that a story should have fewer female characters, but if Urobuchi really wanted his themes to be universal... then he should have skipped out on making this a magical girl story and applied those themes to a broader variety of characters. Because women are already told all the time that they shouldn't expect too much from the world, that they shouldn't expect to be rewarded for their good deeds, etc. etc. Normal magical girl shows do well with all-female casts because they have overwhelmingly positive messages (being a girl is powerful, you are capable of great things, you deserve great things, you can triumph over adversity with love and friendship). Because of the way it toes the line between cynicism and idealism, PMMM is quite possibly the only example I can think of of girls being over represented in anything. When you have an all-female cast, it's natural to read in implications about girlhood and womanhood. If the cast had a balance of male and female characters who struggle against the same obstacles and face the same difficulties, instead of victimizing girls over and over again, we might not be having this conversation. Sure, it's possible to have a feminist narrative in which women suffer. I certainly don't prefer narratives which endlessly coddle its female characters, but I'm incredibly uncomfortable with how PMMM goes out of its way to put the puella magi through the wringer. Creator intent is really important here. I can't emphasize enough that PMMM wasn't created with female viewers in mind — which is more than a little insulting, considering that it's supposed to be a magical girl anime. This lovingly-crafted depiction of young girls suffering incredible emotional and physical trauma was made by adult men, for the entertainment of other adult men — and all of the artistic value in the world can't change that fact, nor justify it. Just as important as the girls' fighting is the girls' ability to actually succeed. PMMM hammers it in, again and again, that it is close to impossible to fight against fate. Urobuchi said that the number of timelines Homura goes through is close to 100, and in all but one of them she fails. Sayaka dies very quickly even in Madoka's "fixed" timeline. It's not enough to show that girls are capable of trying, you have to also show that they are capable of succeeding. Not that their success is guaranteed, but that it's possible. But when every single character who attempts to grab power and take control of her situation has everything backfire miserably, over and over... The ending never implies that the system won't change any more, but it doesn't imply that the system will change, either, or that anyone is interested in trying to change it. spoiler[The end of Rebellion is an entirely new mess to grapple with, and so inconsistent with the rest of the story that I'm inclined to disregard it all together, but it's certainly not feminist. Homura does technically take control of the system, but that action goes hand in hand with her betrayal of Madoka — by that point, she's a villain and the narrative does not applaud her for finally getting Kyubey under control. If anything, it's an example of selfish girls being literally demonized (Madoka did the right thing by being content with only changing one aspect of the system/Homura changes everything at once and she's evil).] While we're talking about Rebellion: PMMM is loaded with queerbaiting, which is the practice of giving two characters of the same gender a relationship that has all of the subtext of being romantic... but never taking that subtext into text. It allows creators to attract fans who are interested in seeing same gender couples without repelling fans who might be turned off by it, and it's extremely harmful to actual LGBT people who desperately need positive representation in media. Homura and Madoka's relationship is obviously set up to draw in yuri fans (which isn't to say that their relationship is cheap or meaningless or bad), but the dialogue always makes sure that you know that they really are just best friends, yes even when they're hugging naked in outer space while talking about their strong feelings for each other. spoiler[Until the final act of Rebellion, in which Homura finally refers to her feelings as love — love which gives her the power to take completely control over her beloved and become a demon. So for eleven episodes and 2.8 movies, all we get is wishy-washy pseudo-representation, but as soon as they finally make it explicit that Homura is in love with Madoka, they also turn her evil and make her love obsessive, possessive, and destructive. The same old "psycho lesbian" trope.] Thanks, Studio Shaft & Urobuchi! |
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v1cious
 Posts: 6202 Location: Houston, TX |
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The Pixar movie you're talking about is "Day of the Dead", based on the Spanish holiday.
Everyone needs to watch "Knights of Sidonia", this is the first real Hard sci fi show we've had in years. If it stays the current course, I can see it being a big hit. Last edited by v1cious on Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:25 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Kaisos Erranon
 Posts: 214 |
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Hey Imma just interrupt here for a minute to say something important. You are a terrible person. Now that that's out of the way:
Nah. Homura's actions aren't exactly right or anything, but, like, see, she's not actually evil and she's not actually a villain. Claiming so is misreading the entire point of the ending, so, uh, yeah, no. Yeahno.
lesbians are bad right totally yes sir I agree |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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I just want to point out that while your comment above may be "correct", I don't consider it "just". What do "selfish" men get? More often then not, they get what they want, they get ahead, make money and become successful. But is that "good"? How many male HEROES are selfish and/or greedy? Neither of those things are (or should be) virtues. They are probably a necessity to "get ahead", but I don't see why they should be lionized. In the Disney movie, Aladdin's "selfish" wishes ultimately cause lots of problems, it's only his "selfless" wish of freeing the genie that makes things better overall. PMMM has issues, but I think it's ridiculous to say that it's bad because it "punishes selfishness". As an aside, I would also argue that PMMM almost argues the OPPOSITE. Homura and Kyoko BOTH technically wish for others' benefit (Kyoko for her father, Homura for Madoka) and those blow up. In fact, Kyoko makes that EXACT argument. She tells Sayaka, "look out for #1, because trying to help other people is just gonna get you hurt", and she in fact meets her end BECAUSE she is trying to help Sayaka. The only one that clears wishes... "for herself", is Sayaka and even her wish becomes a philosophical discussion on whether she was wishing for the benefit of others (which she tells herself) or for herself (which is the greed that causes her fall). One COULD argue that her wish might have worked out better if she'd been HONEST with herself about her motives. (like if she'd wish for him to play the violin for HER) |
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Arsenette
 Posts: 175 |
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I'm very surprised Zac hasn't seen Mushishi. I honestly thought this show would have been right up his alley. As for me, it's in my top 5 of all time.
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EyeOfPain
Posts: 312 |
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When people talk about Jojo, what they're really talking about are all the arcs since Part 3. While both "Phantom Blood" and "Battle Tendency" are great, you really don't need to watch them to start on "Stardust Crusaders"; Joseph does a pretty decent job of getting everyone caught up in the first couple episodes.
I don't want to seem like I'm putting words in Justin's mouth, but based on what I've heard about his tastes, he'll probably hate the ever-loving crap out of Black Bullet. The thing is a pile of cliches trying to cash in on marginally better titles. And no, I haven't read the light novels, and shouldn't be required to in order to judge a derivative work. An adaptation should entice me to want to read the source material in order to learn more about the world or the characters that inhabit it, not force me to in order to understand it's convoluted plot points.
Where's that Netflix stream?
Is it possible that's one of the things Anno was trying to say? That these people are so messed up that, to them, their problems are more important than the world ending? |
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Galap
Moderator
 Posts: 2354 |
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I think that was part of the problem, too. The show could have used what was going on as a metaphor, or had their suffering be because of what was going on and have it be a metaphor for real world suffering, but it didn't really seem to gel it very well.
It's certianly possible, in fact I think it's likely that it is in fact what he was trying to say. I just think that theme is stupid, boring, and shallow. |
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Fencedude5609
 Posts: 5088 |
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One of the fundamental flaws of the "sexist" reading of Madoka Magica is the assertion that since some historical women were Magical Girls, that means no woman has accomplished anything without the help of magic.
This fails on two levels. First of all, this is a standard precisely zero male historical figures are ever held to. There is a rich tradition of ascribing fantastical powers to great historical (or mythic) male figures. Hell, just look at King Arthur for one example. Not to mention all the "magic" swords and the like these men are said to have wielded. Secondly, the assertion that all notable female figures were Magical Girls. This is patently absurd. We are shown three examples. A) Joan of Arc. Joan of Arc (Jeanne d'Arc) is perfect for this role, considering that she's almost always ascribed some sort of magic or incomprehensible powers. Hell, there is at least one manga/anime entire based around the idea that Joan was a Magical Girl! B) Cleopatra. Another historical character who is very frequently ascribed magical powers. Her being a Magical Girl is, again, completely reasonable and not even that original an idea. C) Queen Himiko. An ancient Japanese queen who again is very connected to "magic" in her folklore. Unlike Joan and Cleopatra, she didn't seem to die at a young age, but thats hardly a requirement for being a Magical Girl. She is used constantly in fiction as a magical character, so her use here is hardly unusual. So in short, we are shown three female historical figures, separated by thousands of years and miles, all of whom are closely associated with magic in the folklore that surrounds them. To go from there to the idea that "all" notable women in history were magical girls is an enormous and completely unsupported leap. |
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Mudkips
Posts: 9 |
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Possibly, which is why it should be no surprise as to why so few people want to attend Shinji's pity party. Shinji barely seems to give a fudge about anyone else's suffering (there are plenty of good reasons for refusing to get in the EVA in ep 1, Shinji. "I'm mad at dad, so fudge the world" isn't one of them), so I have trouble giving a fudge about his. |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8459 Location: Penguinopolis |
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If that's how you interpret Evangelion, you must be deaf, blind, and on a stretcher with a sheet covering you being loaded into the back of an ambulance. |
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Mudkips
Posts: 9 |
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I'll admit to not having seen it in awhile (about a year), but I do remember being rather annoyed at how Shinji's inner monologues seemed to focus far more on his feelings of isolation and rejection rather than, y'know, how damn terrifying it is to know that a single slip-up on his part could doom the entire world. While Shinji's situation would suggest that his issues come from having the fate of the world on his shoulders, his headspace never seems to reflect this, and it makes him come off as obnoxiously self-centered.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Evangelion, the TV series, is about deep, dark depression, self-hatred and self-doubt. It's about that first and everything else second.
If that's boring or stupid to you, that's fine. Sure did resonate with a lot of people, though. |
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Galap
Moderator
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There's no problem that it resonated with a lot of people. I'm just not one of them.
I mean no offense to people who like the show. |
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Jason_F
Posts: 6 |
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I remember watching Starblazers when it first aired on US television back in '79. It was a big hit at my elementary school among all the Sci-Fi geeks. We had a small community of fans that would get together and talk about it. That show along with Battle of the Planets is what got me into anime because I was looking for good Sci-Fi series at that time.
I was glad to see Space Battleship Yamato, the live action movie, and had a good time watching it. It took me back to all those old 70's anime I grew up with. In fact, on a trip to Tokyo in 2012, I bought the Japanese DVD just to have it at Yodobashi Camera. |
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