Forum - View topicSword Art Online II (TV).
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leatherhead333
 Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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It doesn't. But to some people it does. If you've watched Naruto you'll see how many of the villains end up getting redeemed and people support them despite how many terrible things they do. It pisses me off
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Clarste
Posts: 427 |
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I think it's obvious that the writer wants us to forgive Kayaba for some reason, but that's another topic.
In this case, it seems that Shino's backstory is an explanation for why she takes the game more seriously than most (ie: using it to conquer her fear), so in that sense isn't "explaining otherwise irrational behavior" exactly what's going on here? That said, if everyone acted perfectly rationally then they wouldn't exactly be characters, now would they? Her past serves simply as a motivation. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15462 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Well I like Fairy Tail, where one ex villain joins the good guys and has to earn respect, even told that he won't be forgiven just like that, and only in the least try to do good into the future. Fairy Tail has a number of villains become good guys, but earning forgiveness and facing crimes is something that is not just hand waved away. |
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leatherhead333
Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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No one said they should. But the traumatic past can only excuse so much behavior before it crosses the line for me. Again it really depends on what the character ends up doing because of it. Here it's merely a motivation which is fine. But if she turned into another Sasuke I'll flip
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leatherhead333
Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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Depending on what they've done that's fine. Fairy Tail seems to be much more lighthearted than Naruto so i doubt anything they've done would warrant eternal hatred. I'm not really against the whole bad guy helping the good guy trope which pretty common in shounen shows but if a guy can get away with mass murder just because he is "misunderstood" and helps later that's crossing the line of forgiveness for me . Which is why i hope they don't try to hard to redeem Kayaba because i don't feel he deserves it at all.
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ChibiKangaroo
 Posts: 2941 |
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There is no doubt for me that Kayaba was supposed to be "redeemed" by the end of SAO 1. After the end of the first arc, he is shown spoiler[in a kind of innocent haze, having "forgotten" why he committed all those horrendous murders]. The whole "beautiful castle in the sky" visual is presented as this wonderful dream that Kayaba had, and the imagery of that castle carries on with Kirito and Asuna into both the second arc and SAO 2. Then Kayaba spoiler[is shown to be instrumental in making sure Kirito can succeed in the Fairy arc and even gives him special game-breaking powers at the end to defeat Oberon.] Also, Kirito received spoiler[some special "seed" gift from like the ghost of Kayaba which allows for the creation of all these new wonderful MMO game worlds]. Even in this most recent episode, we continue to see Kayaba's castle hovering over Kirito and his harem.
Kayaba is probably one of the most obvious examples of an evil villain given near total redemption. |
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13227 |
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I dunno, Kayaba was never really portrayed as being all that evil, especially when you compare him to Sugou. Nothing Kayaba did was out of malice, and he didn't appear to take any sort of sadistic glee in what he was putting others through. What he did was still wrong, sure, and no one is going around after saying how great Kayaba was, but you can't deny that some good did result from his actions, especially as far as Kirito is concerned.
Plus, he's dead, so it's not like he got away with it. |
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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Darth Vader was totally redeemed after a nice long career of mass murder -- why not Kayba? |
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Yarg
Posts: 13 |
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Kayaba is more of a Well Intentioned Extremist rather than a traditional villain. One major theme in SAO is that how one behaves in a virtual world has the same type of consequences on one's psyche compared to one's behavior in the real world. Kayaba basically went a step further and enforced physical penalties for experiences in virtual worlds.
We aren't really sure exactly what Kayaba set out to prove, but the result is he basically created a new world for a few thousand people to live in and experience. The Seed he created ended up became the catalyst for thousands of new worlds for people to experience and explore. In later LNsspoiler[ it is pretty clear that simulated virtual realms have applications far beyond gaming.] It is difficult to question that Kayaba ultimately contributed to society far more than he harmed it. Think of it as Henry Ford and the proliferation of automobiles. Automobiles play a large part of how society functions today, but hundreds of thousands of people die from auto accidents each year. However, despite the deaths, it is still difficult to question that on the whole society is better off with cars. |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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I think there is a pretty big difference between them. Vader didn't just "forget" what he did or why he did it, thereby absolving him of all responsibility. |
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Oroboro
 Posts: 143 |
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It's a bit of a stretch to call him redeemed, anyway. He doesn't apologize, or show regret, or seek redemption in any fashion whatsoever.
He had a goal, and accomplished it. For him, there wasn't much beyond that. Moral considerations were never really a factor for him. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18187 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Agreed with Oroboro. I never saw Kayaba as being redeemed; every action he took was consistent with a mindset of playing God, including attempting to ascend to a fundamentally spiritual level (so to speak) by trying to upload himself online. I have to think that was the original design intent for his character, as it fits too perfectly.
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Chiibi
 Posts: 4829 |
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Nice. I was hoping for an intriguing backstory with Sinon and we got exactly that...daaaaamn, talk about TRAUMA! I really liked how that was executed. I have a soft spot for characters who have phobias; it makes them more realistic as people...and I have a few (more irrational) ones myself. Immersing herself into a gun game as treatment for her phobia makes sense too.
............I think I ship her with her friend. :p hahaha nurse molesting Kirito pssst, that'd totally be me....afterall, he is terribly cute.... 
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15462 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Hello, US government, I think that I have someone you need to male sure is being watched." jk 
It s when people like Chiibi openly said she liked an aspect (the backstory thing, not the molestation) that I become proud for liking it too. |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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Kayaba was a villain, and he was never redeemed. Never. What was shown was that he had a good side, and he accomplished some good things in helping Kirito out, but he was undoubtedly a dangerous sociopath that kidnapped ten thousand people and killed thousands of them through his actions.
He could have accomplished the same sociological experiments without killing anyone, merely by making it so that disconnecting from the game would leave your permanently out of it but completely alive. So far as anyone in the game would know, those people were as dead as he'd promised they would be and the story inside the game would have played out identically. Even then it would still be mass kidnapping and psychological torture. The series makes no real effort to redeem him either, it merely explains his methods a bit, and while Kirito thanks him for his help and comes to understand him more, he never forgives the Aincraid experience (even though in the end he is grateful for the personal benefits it brought him). |
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