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AsherFischell



Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 238

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:12 am Reply with quote
Couldn't agree more in regards to fan service shows. I'm fine with fan service as long as it isn't the reason for the show's existence, but when it is, I just don't understand why people wouldn't just watch porn.

Also, I wasn't aware that the dub changed Ghost Hunt that dramatically. I haven't seen the dub, but can anyone give some examples as to how it was changed?
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Anime_Otaku35



Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 68
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:14 am Reply with quote
I think Brandon meant Ghost Stories, not Ghost Hunt.
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Barbobot



Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 193

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:22 am Reply with quote
Yea, Ghost Hunt's dub doesn't change any of the characters or story. It's most likely Ghost Stories that he was referring to.
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brand



Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 667

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:24 am Reply with quote
I'm not angry about Aniplex, I'm just befuddled. You know disk sales better then I do. I just have not heard of anyone buying pretty much any Aniplex title because they are so expensive. Everyone I know watches them streaming or will just bootleg them. So, that is my POV on it.
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jsevakis
ANN Director of New Media


Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 1534
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:34 am Reply with quote
Oops, yes the original question said Ghost Hunt. Brain said "yeah, Ghost Hunt! That's totally an anime that exists!" Stupid brain.

Fixed now.
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Akaname
Enjoying the time of EVEEnjoying the time of EVE


Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Posts: 107
Location: MA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:48 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Sheesh. Aniplex is obviously doing this because it works. Madoka Magica was released the same way at the same price, and it sold like hotcakes. Now, Kill la Kill is getting the same treatment. It would be nice if Aniplex released them at a cheaper price, but they did the math, and determined it makes more sense for them to do it this way, by making more money selling fewer discs to customers that can afford it.


I could afford it, but am choosing not to bother. I bought the Madoka LE releases, and have since regretted spending an absurd amount on 13 episodes. Their "math" is short term, I doubt many people are buying those Madoka singles these days. So to think an incredibly popular series released only 2 years ago is making zero profit for them seems stupid.
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nhat



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 701

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:49 am Reply with quote
brand wrote:
I'm not angry about Aniplex, I'm just befuddled. You know disk sales better then I do. I just have not heard of anyone buying pretty much any Aniplex title because they are so expensive. Everyone I know watches them streaming or will just bootleg them. So, that is my POV on it.


Most of Aniplex prices are reasonable. I bought a few but only because I'm fan of those shows. If you look at Bandai Visuals releases and pricing, most time you're like, what? lol
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invalidname



Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 576
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:54 am Reply with quote
Hard to get too worked up over Aniplex USA pricing strategy when Kill La Kill streams free on Crunchyroll, Daisuki, and Hulu (and Netflix, which isn't free but is nearly ubiquitous). And are would-be buyers lusting after these discs for the new dub, or just to have that collector's sense of ownership?

A few whales subsidize all the freeloaders. Like anime in Japan, or an iPhone game buoyed by obnoxious in-app purchase, it has proven to be a very viable business model at this time. Can't blame Aniplex for going with what works for them.

First rule of capitalism: stuff is worth what people will pay for it.
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FrameFreeze100



Joined: 02 Dec 2011
Posts: 162

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:54 am Reply with quote
AsherFischell wrote:
Couldn't agree more in regards to fan service shows. I'm fine with fan service as long as it isn't the reason for the show's existence, but when it is, I just don't understand why people wouldn't just watch porn.


As a fan of the ecchi genre and as a person who visits many ecchi blogs where fans of similar opinions gather here are some answers.

Ecchi Anime have bigger budgets = better looking boobs

Hentai OVAs have smaller budgets = inconsistent quality. Animators also use a lot of recycled frames and scenes.

e.g. An ecchi anime directed by Hiraku Kaneko has better detail to nipples and movement of breasts than majority of hentai


Some voice acting fans like hearing their favorite seiyuu or voice actress specifically in ecchi anime (e.g. Ayako Kawasumi, Mamiko Noto, Jamie Marchi)

These women who are great at what they do will never actually work on full-blown hentai, so extreme ecchi anime is as close as those fans will get.


Some people don't want to admit they watch porn/hentai or much less pay for it. While I'm sure there are people who watch movies, TV shows or regular anime will come up with excuses for why it's ok to watch content illegally instead of paying for it, it's basically a universal opinion that "it's dumb to pay for porn" when it's so easily accessible for free (illegally). The porn industry bleeding cash over the past few years should surprise nobody.

At least by owning your favorite movie or anime on DVD/BD or have an itunes copy you can share it with friends or maybe you're a collector who likes to proudly show off your collection. Not many proudly show off a porn collection (usually hidden away someplace or just some files on your computer). Ecchi is more tolerated and if it has a lot of action or likable characters the show is sometimes embraced by mainstream viewers.

Fans still want to feel like they have influence and an important opinion so there are many silent supporters who speak with their wallets and credit cards whenever a new ecchi anime is sold. There will always be porn & hentai, but ecchi only endures as long as it sells well just like anything else. Some producers & studios are also lazy. If something sells well, make more/release more like that and hopefully get lucky again.

And some people just have a 2D fetish where the female characters have their ideal proportions compared to a busted up porn star (bad surgeries, drugged out, not actually that pretty without makeup, etc)
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Utsuro no Hako



Joined: 18 May 2012
Posts: 339

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:14 pm Reply with quote
I don't think anyone outside of social conservatives object to sexual content in anime on its own. The issue is the sort of sexual content we get -- misogynistic objectification that treats female characters as walking boobs that exist to get groped by accident, or skirts that blow up to reveal absurdly tight panties that conceal bulging genitals. Watamote and Aku no Hana had plenty of sexual content, but you don't hear a lot of objections because the female characters had agency and desires of their own instead of existing as male wank fantasies.
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Paiprince



Joined: 21 Dec 2013
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:21 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, ecchi series as a whole have better production values than straight hentai. They also don't take forever to finish (a 13 or maybe 24 scheduled episodes over 2 or 4 episodes over a span of 4 years give or take.)

There is also definitely a demographics dissonance surrounding the mixed reception of the genre. Aside from the older fans, girls in general aren't totally big on the fanservicey series. Yes, there exists those tailored for them like Free! but they seem to have tastes leaning more to the violent stuff. Jojo and SnK have loads of female fans just to give you examples while something like Highschool DxD or Queen's Blade has more fans on the XY end.

As for the "quality" of the output, I won't delve too much over it, but as long as it doesn't turn to a million Eikens, I've no beef with it.

The American mainstream really does have screwed perceptions of what is deemed "acceptable" when it comes to adult matters. It always baffles me why helicopter style parents are a-ok with death, violence and conflict but showing an act of procreation or anything related to it is a huge taboo. Can't have deviant perverts, but we'll let whackos with guns running amok. I'd chalk it up with the anachronistic Puritan principles that influenced modern American culture and parenting.


Last edited by Paiprince on Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:36 pm; edited 3 times in total
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unitmikey



Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:26 pm Reply with quote
I agree that the real problem with fan service shows is that the boobs are the point of the show. It just seems that is what people are buying these things for, and they are going to want the most boobs for their dollar. The creators have to add as much as possible and then there is no longer room left for character or plot development even if there are ideas that they wanted to get out there. This leads me to wonder which of these creators have a real talent or vision but are pressured to step aside, as opposed to the people who don't know how to do anything else besides fan service anyway. I mean, remember the guy that directed Girls Bravo also directed Wandering Son (of course you could argue about source material).

I would prefer that Aniplex release cheaper editions of their shows, but if it's streaming then I don't have as much of a problem with it. However I will most likely never see Garden of Sinners now, so I'll be honest, that pisses me off.
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Parsifal24



Joined: 20 Apr 2010
Posts: 285
Location: Holland MI

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:28 pm Reply with quote
sexual content doesn't really bother me unless it's mean spirited or "rapey"
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DmonHiro



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 1920
Location: Romania, Bucharest

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:28 pm Reply with quote
Ahh... the lip-synch. The bane of dubs, and the number one reason so many of them stink. The American dubbing companies are so obsessed with it, they unintentionally take an axe to the script.

Let me share the worst offender, in my opinion: Fate Stay Night.
During the battle against Illya and Berserker, Archer uses the iconic Unlimited Blade Works. The scene is awesome, the music is awesome, the chant is awesome. In English, the chant is a catastrophe: it's clunky, it's way too long, there are words that serve no purpose and make Archer sound stupid. The catch? The original chant was ALREADY in English. There was absolutely no reason to change it other then it to match the lip flaps. And the kicker? Half of the chant is said in darkness, where you couldn't even SEE his mouth.

tl;rd: The Japanese audio rarely matches the lip movement anyway and nobody's complaining. Why ruin your dubs' chance before it even begins?


Last edited by DmonHiro on Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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merr



Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:29 pm Reply with quote
I thought Aniplex prices were all about fending off reverse importation rather than maximizing profit. They probably do enough business to keep the lights on, but are they really making more money than they would with normal prices?
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