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Kaisos Erranon



Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Posts: 214
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:58 pm Reply with quote
As a pirate, anime being cheaper (or dub-free. which is retarded because I'm going to turn the dub track off regardless) is not going to get me to buy it.
Anime being really, really good is.
I'm not gonna buy utter shit that I've already seen the TV broadcast of like Henneko, I'm going to buy something like Madoka Rebellion, even if it costs me a hundred dollars or more.
License, say, Hyouka or Tatami Galaxy and you will have my attention (and money).
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6248
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:32 pm Reply with quote
TheSeventhSense wrote:

And considering Wal-Mart's selling full blown hentai... (NSFW image!)


Shocked Shocked Shocked That is surprising, and Wal-mart is the last place I would find Hentai to be sold. Shocked
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 4566
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:39 pm Reply with quote
@reanimator

I highly doubt that "most people" only watch shows once and then dismiss them without a second thought as soon as the next season rolls around. If that really is the case, it's a rather damning criticism of the state of modern anime, or at least of the modern anime fanbase. If a creative work is good, it should compel you to revisit it down the line, to enjoy the experience again. And if it's not good...well then, why are you wasting your time watching it in the first place? And if I do prefer rewatching shows from my own collection, it's because it's far more convenient to toss them in any DVD or Blu-ray player to do so, instead of being shackled to my computer in my bedroom; I don't exactly have a home theater PC setup going here, you see.

Yes, I do often base my decision to buy a series on its reviews, and package descriptions, and trailers, and knowledge of the studio/staff, and the advice of several friends who've watched many more series than I have. There are plenty of good resources out there to find out about shows without sitting through them yourself; hell, ANN employs a very accomplished staff of reviewers, and I've found their takes on shows to be on the money much more often than not. I generally do prefer watching shows before buying them, but that's not always possible, especially when a certain series is swiftly falling out-of-print; there are other times when I'll take a chance on something if it's cheap enough in a sale.

And yes, of course I want to make a library of shows I enjoy. Why would I be collecting in the first place if not for that?

[EDIT: Please stop over-quoting. This is your last warning. -TK]
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Mr. sickVisionz



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2171
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:51 pm Reply with quote
Ecchi Shows
I'm not into shows that are purely ecchi (although most of these shows also try to sell themselves on being comedic or having some action thrown in) but I don't get the never ending complaining that stuff like this exists. If you don't like pornographic content, don't buy pornographic anime. Guys like hot ladies, ladies like hot guys. Some companies recognize that and they make a product that appeals to it. Guys will get some show that's nothing but jiggle tits and ladies will get some show with beautiful guys arguing and competing over which of them is worthy of completely abandoning everything in their life just to be with some woman who loves them so much that she doesn't have an issue dating like 10 of them at once until she can go through the true agony of picking which on she'll end up with.

It's whatever. If you don't like it, you really don't have to buy it. Hell, you don't even have to watch it. Arguing over why can't guys stop liking sexy, scantily clad women and the female equivalent version just seems like a total waste of time. It's not going away. Humans have been on the planet for like thousands and thousands of years and still haven't figured out how to crack that nut (or really even expressed desire in cracking it). It's not going to be cracked no matter how much complaining and bafflement you display on a message board.

Getting Rid of Dubs to Solve Piracy
I don't even like 99% of dubs but cutting out dubs is a bad idea and IS NOT going to turn pirates into buyers. A lot of the pirates I see raise the argument that piracy is free so why would anyone buy it ever?. As long as anime cost money, they will not see the point in purchasing it when they can goto a torrent site and get it for free.

Besides, the market already has adopted to fit the needs of pirates. Hulu, Crunchyroll, Daisuki, etc and all the places you can watch anime for no or minimal charge yet still generate revenue for the people who produce and license the stuff. That's the answer to piracy imo.

merr wrote:
dtm42 wrote:
1): Demand is inelastic, therefore it makes sense to keep prices high, especially for the types of products AoA specialises in and the audience it caters to. And what's wrong with specialisation, of occupying a niche and being darned good at it?

This isn't true, though. If it were, every other distributor would have raised their prices to match AoA. And why would AoA follow up their high-priced "domestic imports" with (relatively) cheaper SKU's down the line if demand were inelastic?


NISA generally charges more than others and Funimation has started putting out higher priced collector's editions. Other distributors are realizing that there is a market out there for higher priced releases with more extras and bonuses and they are starting to tap into it.

As for why they follow it up with cheaper releases, they do realize that there is a market for these releases. I don't think the two ideas are contradictory. You put out a higher priced product first for the market that's willing to pay that. Once that market is saturated, you put out a lower priced product for the people who will buy later. A lot of companies do this. Funimation will put out a 26-episode show in two $50-$60 boxsets. Once that market dries up the series gets bundled into one set and based off of how it sold moved to Anime Classics at a lower price or S.A,V.E. at a significantly lower price.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:58 pm Reply with quote
Barbobot wrote:
SouthPacific wrote:
I wouldn't have anything against dubs if they were properly produced, which they seemingly aren't. The fact that voice actors do not work on scenes together, and are given the script first when they arrive at the studio are two very frightening things, and doesn't really shout "This dub is going to be great!".


That's just how any animation dubbing/voice work is generally done in america, Hollywood included. All the Disney films, Pixar, Dreamworks are all done in that manner with recording a single characters lines by themselves. Video games for the most part as well. I assume that's how it's done in Europe as well, but not entirely sure.


All? http://youtu.be/dzs8u-gPcxU Not a mix? http://youtu.be/TToB4sBnDHs ... certainly they don't record four microphone radio theater style ... but its not entirely single mike work either ... http://youtu.be/reDhs8K7Ids ... and in fact, it only takes some double mike work between some key protagonists to get an interactive feel in the dialogue. But doing that and also matching to lip flaps on screen would not likely work very well, and I think most of that involves animations that are finished against the voice track, rather than visa versa. I'd expect most dubbing of finished video to be single mike.

I'd also expect all single mike work would be dominant with video games, which is dramatically different production process.


Last edited by agila61 on Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:27 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 7578
Location: Wales
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:00 pm Reply with quote
Sherris wrote:
UK DVD releases (presumably Australian ones are as well, given that Madman is the one supplying the tapes to UK companies) are all of downgraded quality and I switched to US versions the moment I realised this.
An example:
http://i61.tinypic.com/166hcgg.png

I'm having a weird sense of deja-vu saying this but, I'm not sure what a broadcast to DVD comparison says about your topic?
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:20 pm Reply with quote
Top Gun wrote:
I highly doubt that "most people" only watch shows once and then dismiss them without a second thought as soon as the next season rolls around. If that really is the case, it's a rather damning criticism of the state of modern anime, or at least of the modern anime fanbase. If a creative work is good, it should compel you to revisit it down the line, to enjoy the experience again. And if it's not good...well then, why are you wasting your time watching it in the first place?

Oh, good, degree of doubt counts as evidence.

I extraordinarily doubt that most people have a complete and total dichotomy between shows that they enjoy so much that they want to rewatch it repeatedly and shows that they do not enjoy enough to watch once.

For most people, there is a big middle ground of shows that they enjoyed watching the first time, that they do not feel a tremendous urge to watch again. Especially when its easy to watch a show as the new episodes come up in your queue, and is only 20 minutes if you skip the opening and the ending.


Last edited by agila61 on Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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Gamescook



Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 58
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:30 pm Reply with quote
"I get annoyed because yet another cardboard male character sees yet another cute girl naked before getting punched into oblivion. I get annoyed because those jokes were old a decade ago, that story has been done a million times, and I would rather microwave my testicles before sitting through that lazy, hacky, insulting garbage one more time. (And also, once you've dated for a while, you know just how completely fake the poorer-written anime "romances" really are.)"

THANK YOU.
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reanimator





PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:34 am Reply with quote
Top Gun wrote:
@reanimator

I highly doubt that "most people" only watch shows once and then dismiss them without a second thought as soon as the next season rolls around. If that really is the case, it's a rather damning criticism of the state of modern anime, or at least of the modern anime fanbase. If a creative work is good, it should compel you to revisit it down the line, to enjoy the experience again. And if it's not good...well then, why are you wasting your time watching it in the first place? And if I do prefer rewatching shows from my own collection, it's because it's far more convenient to toss them in any DVD or Blu-ray player to do so, instead of being shackled to my computer in my bedroom; I don't exactly have a home theater PC setup going here, you see.


That's your way of watching videos and it doesn't reflect viewing habits of other people. Sure there are some people like you who collects anime discs (I do buy discs from time to time), but it's never good to assume.

Maybe except super popular titles of the day, how many people really get excited about anime shows they've watched three months to one year prior? Not too many from I've seen and heard. Most anime are short lived and personally I can't even remember most of the new shows I've watched last season.

With Crunchyroll, I get to watch anime on tablet in my bed and that's just me and I can't speak for other people. While I have no problem with your preference, but you sure assume too much about other people's viewing habit.

Top Gun wrote:
Yes, I do often base my decision to buy a series on its reviews, and package descriptions, and trailers, and knowledge of the studio/staff, and the advice of several friends who've watched many more series than I have. There are plenty of good resources out there to find out about shows without sitting through them yourself; hell, ANN employs a very accomplished staff of reviewers, and I've found their takes on shows to be on the money much more often than not. I generally do prefer watching shows before buying them, but that's not always possible, especially when a certain series is swiftly falling out-of-print; there are other times when I'll take a chance on something if it's cheap enough in a sale.

And yes, of course I want to make a library of shows I enjoy. Why would I be collecting in the first place if not for that?


I'm not going to argue about your decision on buying physical media. You have your preferred method and I have mine. Let's leave it to that. I apologize for the remark about you making a media library which is fine and all.

While your collecting taste and methods are none of my business, but will you stop griping and bashing about how certain anime companies sell and market their products? Every collector has different taste and view on collecting anime-related items. How and what they collect is his/her own business. Throwing negative comments about certain collector's edition which doesn't fit into your price range is really petty and ugly. Would you be happy if someone look down on your collection with utter disdain?
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:54 am Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
TheSeventhSense wrote:

And considering Wal-Mart's selling full blown hentai... (NSFW image!)


Shocked Shocked Shocked That is surprising, and Wal-mart is the last place I would find Hentai to be sold. Shocked
I will hazard a guess the content on that disc will have been censored into a deeper stupidity than it was orginally produced otherwise Walmart wouldn't go near it.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9322
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:36 am Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
I will hazard a guess the content on that disc will have been censored into a deeper stupidity than it was orginally produced otherwise Walmart wouldn't go near it.


Walmart's had a ton of stuff on their website, like the Qwaser DVDs. Doesn't mean it's actually being sold in their stores.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6248
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:44 am Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
Mohawk52 wrote:
I will hazard a guess the content on that disc will have been censored into a deeper stupidity than it was orginally produced otherwise Walmart wouldn't go near it.


Walmart's had a ton of stuff on their website, like the Qwaser DVDs. Doesn't mean it's actually being sold in their stores.


Oh good, I was worried if they sell hentai in the brick and mortar store, Wal-mart would've been under fire. But I'm kinda surprised that Wal-mart are selling hentai online, Wal-mart is the last place where I would find hentai to be sold.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9322
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:49 am Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
Oh good, I was worried if they sell hentai in the brick and mortar store, Wal-mart would've been under fire. But I'm kinda surprised that Wal-mart are selling hentai online, Wal-mart is the last place where I would find hentai to be sold.


It's not like hentai couldn't have been sold in other physical locales. FYE's always had hentai available for purchase, sitting right there for anyone to look at, and that's a store that is/was in many malls across the country. I'm trying to recall if Borders had any porn DVDs available, but they did have a bunch of smut rags, so likely.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6248
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:40 am Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:

It's not like hentai couldn't have been sold in other physical locales. FYE's always had hentai available for purchase, sitting right there for anyone to look at, and that's a store that is/was in many malls across the country. I'm trying to recall if Borders had any porn DVDs available, but they did have a bunch of smut rags, so likely.


I'm aware of FYE selling hentai, I've seen it before at their store when I went there couple of times. But Wal-Mart selling hentai was really surprising and unexpected, and as I said is the last place where I could find hentai.

If Borders did sell porn DVDs, well that would be also surprising to me.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:53 am Reply with quote
SouthPacific wrote:
*sigh* I don't know how I can possibly make myself clearer on this. But i'll try;

- Dubs = cost alot of money

- Cut out the dub of the domestic release = tons of money saved

- Use a (most likely sizable) portion of said saved money to buy the "privilege" of being able to release the title earlier.

Money doesn't grow on trees, and you've gotta stay within your budget.

I don't think there is any lack in clarity in your suggestion ~ it seems like its more a case of people disagreeing with you than people failing to understand you.

If its a sustainable operation, the budget is constrained by the average sales revenue (not volume) of different types of releases, and so it is not a constant in deciding between a hybrid release and a sub-only release.

There is a portion of the market that is only open if a dub is included, and so for a sustainable going concern, taking out the dub takes out both costs and also anticipated revenues.

How much revenue is foregone depends on the title, but supposing its in the range of 25% to 50%, that is why titles expected to be larger revenue generators sellers can justify a dub, while titles expected to be smaller revenue generators cannot. If dubbing a single broadcast season is over $100,000, then a title would have to be expected to earn in excess of $400,000 to justify a dub if a quarter of the sales were contingent on a dub, and over $200,000 to justify a dub if half of the sales were contingent on a dub.

That alternative plan requires that the earlier release opens up a similarly sized market not otherwise available, if the amount to be offered is "the money saved by not doing the dub". However, since making a dub offers greater upside potential in the out years, where an X months earlier release has exhausted its upside once the originally planned release date has passed, it would actually have to be expected to substantially outperform the expected sales benefit of making a dub.

If the companies putting their money on the line making the offers for the rights do not confidently anticipate a sales boost that is appreciably greater than the boost from making a dub, then they won't be expected to try that plan. Especially since, if there is that dollar increment in sales boost to be expected from releasing a sub-only title that much earlier, then it seems likely they could get an even bigger increment increase in sales volume by both bidding enough to release earlier and including a dub.
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