Forum - View topicAkame ga Kill! (TV).
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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Having Tatsumi and Esdeath meet on the summit is advancing the story in "extreme fashion"? Oi vey. You clearly have a hard time distinguishing between things that are important and things that are not.
In your mind, having two characters meet by accident (when they are both in the same geographic area hunting the same creatures, no less) is equivalent to SAO II pulling Kirito's spoiler[hitherto unreferenced PTSD] out of its ass? What I found objectionable about that in SAO II is that it made Kirito's job easier (i.e. the job of spoiler[building trust with Shinon]). When you make your hero's job easier, you are reducing tension/complications. That is not good storytelling. Contrast that with what AgK! did. They found a perfectly plausible way to get Tatsumi and Esdeath in the same space. NOW the fun can begin. Now the part of the story that some of us are interested in can unfold. See the difference? SAO II squashed story possibilities. AgK! is letting the story unfold in a quick, efficient manner. So not being bothered by the perfectly plausible possibility that Tatsumi and Esdeath could meet while hunting the same creatures in the same locale is not an endorsement of bad writing. It is simply understanding what is important and what is not. I also agree with DP in that the show seems to be indicating that Tatsumi and Esdeath are bound by the red string of fate which, again, in the world we have been shown so far is perfectly organic. |
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leatherhead333
 Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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You were close to pinpointing the issue but missed it by a mark. It's convenient writing for Kirito to suddenly havespoiler[ PTSD] that the audience was not informed about. By the same token it's convenient that Esdeath would quickly be able to spot Tatsumi by sheer luck of coincidental timing of him hoping up the mountain while she flies past in his general location. It' convenient writing in both situations though SAO was still the bigger offender there.
If you really want to argue about coincidences all of them are technically possible but that doesn't mean them continuing to happen is reasonable from a story telling stand point. An overuse of said coincidences shows lack of effort from the writer as they are incapable of building up a believable scenario and just hides behind it's comedic tone to make viewers overlook it. Tatsumi even reacted with a "No way is this a coincidence?!!!" which goes further to show Akame ga Kill acknowledging how slim of a chance there was of this happening. As I said before coincidences in this show are nothing new. They are all plausible but to frequently relied on to advance the story as quickly as possible. I really don't see what you mean by the red string of fate. If you mean what the writer made happen sure. But organically? I don't see how they are similar. Tatsumi would have a huge problem with the way Esdeath does things considering even after she beats her opponents she likes to take time with her subjects to rape/murder the innocent villagers. He'd quickly see how corrupt the army was if he still had that naive sense of idealism he had before. It's possible he could have joined Esdeath yes but he'd be strongly conflicted with her way of handling things. Them respecting the dead doesn't really show a significant similarity either. A DECENT human being would do that even though Esdeath is far from that in my opinion. Tatsumi was pretty shaken by his friends deaths while Esdeath doesn't care nearly as much as he does. I predict we will see more things to perhaps humanize Esdeath as she is with her lover now but i highly doubt they will be drawing parallels about how similar the two are unless we get this big flashback about how she used to be like Tatsumi which would be..........ugh. |
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Dessa
 Posts: 4438 |
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She didn't spot Tatsumi. She spotted someone, because she saw their shadow. Which, in the low-light of evening, shadows that high up are huge. She went to investigate the shadow she saw, and it happened to be Tatsumi, because he was the only other person up there.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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You continue to miss my point by a country mile. As I tried to explain before - pretty simply, I thought - my beef with Kirito's situation wasn't the "convenience" of it. It was the impact of that convenience. The impact of that convenience was to make Kirito's mission easier. That's not good story-telling. Sure, Esdeath bumping into Tatsumi is convenient, too. But convenient in a good way. It was a plausible event that made Tatsumi's life more complicated - not easier. See the difference there?
I don't mind people disagreeing with my points, but it's nice when they at least UNDERSTAND them. AgK! is not "hiding" behind its comedic tone. It simply understands what type of show it is and what type of things would be acceptable to those who - unlike you - aren't biased, negative nitpickers desperate to latch onto every dust mote so that they can "prove" viewers like me are "wrong" for liking this show. You wouldn't apply the same lens of reality to incidents that happen in a comedy like 40-year-old Virgin that you would to a drama like Schindler's List, would you? Although, Christ, knowing you... As for my comment about the red string of fate being an organic element for this show, what I mean by that is that this is a fantasy adventure show that features magic. In a world like that, the concept of two characters being bound by fate - whether that fate is good or ill - is not an out-of-place element. The way it would in a gritty, realistic slice of life show, for example. I have no idea where you got the bizarre concept that only people who are "similar" should be bound by fate. Enemies can be bound by fate just as easily as lovers. |
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leatherhead333
Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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It isn't easier for Tatsumi but it's convenient for the STORYTELLING meaning Tatsumi and Esdeath can have their little bonding moment AGAIN in a nice quick fashion due to a random coincidence. This is quite obviously going to be an important plot point since no doubt Tatsumi's opinion of Esdeath since they appear to be alone on an island together in the next episode is going to change. Therefore said important plot point should have come about in a much more less direct "quickly as possible" fashion in my opinion.
You seem to misunderstand me here blood. I don't really care about what you or other people like. More power to you. I simply state my objective opinion while also occasionally liking what the show is trying to do. I'm sarcastic sometimes which does come across as cynical suppose but it has nothing to do with me trying to play some retarded "Who's dick is bigger!" game that can pop up in these discussions. I'm not nit picking when most of the issues I bring up are recurring issues with the series that I have. This coincidence thing is something I brought up in the first episode. I never started out hating the show just hating how it presented itself. That 40 year old virgin comparison doesn't even make sense. What the shit does a romantic comedy which DOESN'T have murder in it have to do with Schindler's list? 
I commented on the similarities since you were agreeing with DP's point of of Esdeath and Tatsumi have similar traits. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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Yeah, my comparison between judging events that happen in different types of shows makes perfect sense. AgK! is a fantasy action-comedy. You don't judge certain incidents in it the same way you would if it was Flowers of Evil which is a naturalistic, non-magical show. It's a very simple point.
No, I wasn't commenting on DP's comments about similarities that Tatsumi and Esdeath might share. I was commenting on this:
I agree with that. I believe the show is indicating that, as well. That fate will throw these two together whether Tatsumi wants it or not. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15462 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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If a story only uses the most logical and statistically likely scenarios, isn't that kind of boring? Or if it is just about convenience, then you blame even the initial setting?
Magical artefacts, that is too convenient for making characters superhuman. Him being from a small town, too convenient to make him an innocent character. Esdeath away on a war, too convenient for stronger enemies to appear later. I was recently listening to a podcast on statistical probability, there is this really interesting thing called [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Littlewood's_law]Littlewood's law[/url], that states that you are likely to expect a miracle about once a month. I think it is a 1 in a 1,000,000 chance event happening to you every 35 days. Apparently it is statistically improbable for it to happen. If I am not mistaken, wasn't Night Raid gone for like a month? |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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I'm kinda shocked that leatherhead333 hasn't commented on the fact that Esdeath spoiler[killed a number of Danger Beasts with one swipe of her sword.] Zomg, that's so unrealistic! You'd never see something like that in True Detective.
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leatherhead333
Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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Are you being serious with this? God why do you have to try to blow what I'm saying out of proportion? Akame ga Kill's setting is already about as barebones as you can get. If I cared about that stuff I wouldn't have watched it in the first place. I care about how events play out simply because I like stories in this sort of setting to have a mysterious background while giving us a world that feels organically real on some level. It can have magic or whatever it wants. As long as things make sense for why they happened I could care less about what rubbish the story wants to include. Seeing things properly foreshadowed or explaining how/why something happened shows actual EFFORT on the writers part instead of pulling bullshit out of their ass because it's cool or convenient (cough Naruto). If the progression of the story is to be taken seriously I have my own standards of what is acceptable writing. Yeah, I like to be surprised sometimes too. But when that's all the show is doing it's not really a surprise anymore. It's more of a "how much more ridiculous can they get with this?". Which isn't a bad thing depending on the type of show it is. But this isn't Kill la Kill. And I've already explained why I don't think Akame ga Kill can properly pull this off. That's just how it is chaps. Chill out a little eh? 
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Spotlesseden
Posts: 3514 Location: earth |
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not sure why people want to compare every anime to SAO in ANN. IS SAO really that important that people have to make a comparison with it ?
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15462 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Not sure why you were telling me to chill, I was only saying that looking for the most logical things in a fiction that already has a lot of illogical parts right in the setting is a bit silly. Also Esdeath kept talking in the last couple of episodes how she wanted to see Tatsumi again, Tatsumi kept talking about how they will run into the Jaegers, and in the episode they talk about how they were both going after the same thing. That is foreshadowing. I would even take a guess that Susanoo's talk of targets having a weak spot being foreshadowing of how there might very well be one on Esdeath, Tatsumi will have to try and find it. Which is why we will find out about her past, but also there is danger that the choice he makes may not work out the best as Chelsea keeps mentioning. Also mentioned right before hand is how wire guy followed their leader out of.... love, when he could have been perfectly comfortable where he was. I think that this too is significant to the situation, and it was all pretty much foreshadowing that something was about to happen. |
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leatherhead333
Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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For the record a setting can be bland/stupid but still be smart in how it presents itself. Example would be No game No life which is a very intelligent show in how it explains itself but never something you'd ever take seriously which is what makes it enjoyable. Don't have to completely turn the brain off.
Well if you want to get out a bloody microscope and look at every damn thing a character says I guess that counts as foreshadowing? We already knew Esdeath and Tatsumi were going to meet again. There was NO QUESTION this was going to happen at some point. Her talking about wanting to see him again wasn't foreshadowing. That's like a character saying "I'm going to kill you!" then they end up killing them. Duuuurr ain't that the best foreshadowing you dun ever saw? :B Them talking about meeting each other? That was also obvious. Their leader even said they were going to end up working with the capital. So yes them meeting was an obvious outcome. The issue once again was HOW they met during a coincidence which has been a staple of the series to use in various situations not that they were going to meet. I already knew this. Don't bring up such irrelevant things. I really see no reason to believe they are fated to meet either unless we get something to link them together in the next episode. Wouldn't make sense to me. That would just be pulling some Samurai Flamenco shit out of nowhere. The wire guy telling us about his past just brings up a death flag for him now since they can't kill off a character without us knowing about their motivations. Didn't really foreshadow that anything was going to happen. And him dying now wouldn't be a surprise at all. |
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Mr. Nescio
Posts: 165 |
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Many people can take enjoyment of the state of knowing that you don't know what and when things are going to happen. |
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leatherhead333
Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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That's totally fine. I realize I'm obviously in the minority who feels like this. I like being surprised by stuff too as long as it is consistent with the internal logic of the situation. You can be surprised by something but it will still make sense why it happened if it's explained in proper detail later. But when all your throwing is surprises but never explaining them that gets boring too in my opinion. Why do we have giant flying fish creatures?
"because their cool!". But why though? "because reasons!". K cool. Basically, there is just such a lack of world building here. I want see more from this world than just murder and mayhem. We've already got enough of that shit. And these coincidental encounters aren't helping. For this particular situation I reside to the fact I'm probably make a fuss over a small annoyance but I'm not convinced that this is an organic part of the story AT ALL. Fate shouldn't work like that. You don't meet someone, then a month later meet them again and call that fate. That's a horrible usage of such a thing. There has to be similarities or an extreme contrast between the characters in a setting like this. Whether it be a strong difference/similarity in ideals or upbringings I think there needs to be something to connect the two. Esdeath loves Tatsumi while he wants to beat her. Obviously they don't see eye to eye on matters of protecting the weak but just about every damn villain in the series is like that so it's hardly something to connect them. In my opinion justice Girl would be a far better fated rival for Tatsumi since normally they have shared many similar experiences and have identical personalities . Remember when Tatsumi was crying about his friends in Sheele's lap? Well the scene where Esdeath comforts Justice Girl was basically the exact same thing. So yeah a fated rival character wouldn't be TOTALLY out of the question i suppose but that person being Esdeath? A bit of stretch to me. Of course Wave could also be put in that equation of a fated rival but I see him becoming an ally at some point. We'll see tomorrow i suppose
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15462 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Well justice girl grew up in the city, my opinion without actually being told is that spoiler[like Tatsumi she grew up in a small village. Her whole village probably got destroyed and she was left the sole survivor. Unlike Tatsumi she did not have anyone to live for anymore, the only thing that had her able to go forward was believing in the strong survive instead of for justice]. I would bet the only reason she gets the pain of losing people is because she has felt it too. Tatsumi is already starting to become rather hardened, I am pretty sure he has started to become an active part in helping the members with their emotional scars also. Chances are that I am wrong and you can say everything I wrote above will be gibberish, but it is what I was thinking when looking at the characters. |
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