Forum - View topicAldnoah.Zero (TV) (both seasons).
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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He only wrote up the first 3 episodes, the rest of the series is taken over by the staff. Even then, I doubt he was a part of how the series "looks and feels" aside from the interpersonal character drama. That aside, the first enemy mech prominently displayed effectively generated an "event horizon veil", if that alone doesn't cause you to call BS on the series already then you shouldn't be angry about a Beam Saber being "unrealistic". |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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meiam, you obviously don't understand physics especially conservation of momentum.
I see. Urobuchi's involvement must have been hyped up.
And this is where you are wrong. It is far, far easier to accept a machine that can manipulate spacetime in order to stop interacting with matter and most types of electromagnetic energy than it is to accept a machine that can violate fundamental laws of physics due to having a magical and invincible plasma sword which it swings reeeeeally fast. Also, the first machine had major weaknesses and matched the show's science fiction tone. Meanwhile, the second machine was so obviously styled after a Japanese swordsman from a fantasy drama that it could have been replaced by an evil version of Goemon and nothing would have changed. Finally, I can readily accept a beamsabre because obviously some suspension of disbelief is needed on the part of the viewer. It's not the fact that there was a beamsabre that got me riled but rather what that sword was able to do instead. |
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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I am sorry if you were expecting a "realistic" mech series like Knights of Sidonia and instead you got G Gundam, but I guess that is just an individual viewers discrepancy.
If I were to take a guess before the series is over there will be even crazier mechs that will make the beam saber wielder look more tangible as a premise. |
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leatherhead333
 Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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Well I think the problem is the show tries to be scientific when talking about the weaknesses and strengths of these mechs when it isn't completely technically sound. If you are going to bring up some advanced scientific stuff you need to go that extra mile to make it as believable as possible.
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meiam
Posts: 3442 |
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Okay, what? You can accept plasma sword but you can't acceptspoiler[ swinging a sword really fast? Making plasma is a relatively new things for human, Swinging sword is something we've been doing for awhile? And somehow swinging a sword really fast is the part you have problem with? Here's some number, bullet velocity at most roughly 2000 m/s, speed of light (more or less speed limit of universe, the point at which the law physic would start being violated) roughly 300 000 000 m/s, lots lots of room between these two value.]
spoiler[You do realize it's conservation of momentum, not multiplication of momentum, cut a bullet in a millions piece and the energy is spread into those millions of piece so they can at the same speed but carry a much smaller momentum since there mass is much smaller. Each piece land on a different part of the armor. It's like the difference between hitting a nail with a hammer and hitting the wood underneath it directly with the hammer, in one case you go trough it and the other you just dent it even if you swing the same hammer at the same speed. Unless you believe that the bullet get partially vaporized, this then cause it to blow up in little piece, which then traverse the plasma, to then magically regroup together (conservation of momentum?) and all hit the armor at the same spot.] spoiler[When something explode while moving, it still explode, piece fly in all direction, even if it was in motion (relativity and all that), if the tip of the bullet explode, part of it will fly backward toward the rest of the bullet, those will slow down the bullet. Great things about plasma is you can give it whatever temperature you want (well up to an insane limit, we don't really know what would happen if something was heated to the point were it's black body radiation would have wavelength smaller than planck's lengths) so you can then plug whatever value you want in the root mean square speed equation and find a value that will effectively slow down or deviate the bullet enough. A large portion of the energy from that explosion is transferred to the bullet since it's right next to it (literally touching it) but the explosion then expand, as it expand the energy has to be spread across the entire pressure front of it, which means that a large part of it dissipate into the air and that the amount that does eventually hit the mech is spread over a large area of the mech front surface.] This is actually something that's use in real life, reactive armor. By placing explosive charge between a tank armor and an outer metal plate you weaken a projectile since it has to penetrate the explosion before actually reaching the armor, the explosion is spread over a large area so the damage to the armor is minimal, wheres the bullet is slowed down and hit a precise point and a much lower velocity, which allow the armor to absorb it when it wouldn't. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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^
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii81/Izayuukan/quad_zps57a25d76.jpg Okay, I'm not going to respond to any of that until you go back to high school and relearn everything you were ever taught about physics. |
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meiam
Posts: 3442 |
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I usually don't go there, but I think I'm just too far ahead of you on that issue, you insist on not explaining yourself, while I do offer explanation. It seems you don't realize that plasma sword hitting a bullet in open air is not a close system, you're adding a tremendous amount of energy into the system, far more than the momentum of the bullet, expecting it to follow a simple "two object hitting each others" scenario is… optimistic lets say. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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You're dreaming pal. You don't even know that you don't know physics, so your belief that you're superior is tragically mistaken. And I've already explained my arguments in my initial post, and I see no reason to explain them again. It's not my job to teach you physics. Anyway, I'm not going to respond to you on this anymore so just give it up. |
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RestLessone
 Posts: 1426 Location: New York |
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I'm right there with ya. I don't know why, exactly, but I feel his character has ample ground for some great development, perhaps more than the rest of the cast. Possibly because where he stands now could severely impact who he will become; he doesn't appear to be involved in spoiler[the betrayal, but his friends seemingly are.] Not to mention that he really has no redeemable characteristics, except for not being as awful as a couple other Martians. spoiler[I sort of want to see him grudgingly choose to protect Earth. Maybe he could stop knocking Slaine around, too. I doubt he will grow fond of Slaine, but it would be neat to see him transition to respecting him.] |
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Galap
Moderator
 Posts: 2354 |
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Let us try to look at this with physics/chemistry/math.
In our world, anti tank bullets can weight 75g (that was the biggest on the list I looked up). Let's assume that our hero Inaho is using something similar. In our world, anti tank bullets can be made of metallic tungsten among other things. Let's assume that our hero Inaho is firing tungsten bullets. Said 75g bullets tend to have muzzle energies of about 30KJ. Tungsten's molar mas is 183.84g/mol. That gives us .408 mol in this bullet. tungsten's heat of vaporization is 774KJ/mol So vaporizing the entire bullet would take about 315KJ. Vaproizing half would take about 158KJ, etc. So the bottom line is that since the energy of vaporization is large compared to the kinetic energy, I strongly suspect that all bets are off with regards to preserving its direction if significant amounts of the bullet are being vaporized rapidly. So basically, it would have to be a pretty freaking ripshit beam saber to be able to do it, but a hot enough saber could do it, since heat transfer rate is dependent on temperature difference, so you could get it hot enough to do it fast enough in theory. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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Galap,
Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think the issue here is that if an HE round were made to explode by contact with plasma (or whatever that was made out of), the result of the explosion would be to acclerate shrapnel in multiple directions, which would *increase* the velocity that it had when it made contact. These rounds do not simply produce heat, but also shrapnel. Even if the sword caused the round to disintegrate -- to lose its structural integrity -- the material would still exist and most of it would continue to travel in the same general direction. I don't think it would remain in contact long enough to evaporate the whole round: time is a factor as well as difference of temperature. My belief is that the armor should still be getting sprayed with shrapnel -- probably very hot shrapnel -- even if it wasn't receiving direct impacts of entire rounds. Of course, the bigger issue is the enemy's ability to actually strike the round with his sword. I'm not interested in cutting a single round, but the autofire of a gun like the mechs have (multiple mechs after a bit) has to be coming out at a huge rate. Cutting *all of them*, or even most of them with a sword, even a plasma sword, is just absurd to me. The idea of a field that absorbs all matter is *way* easier for me to accept than that. Frankly, I laughed when I saw it, especially after the other mechs on the ship showed up and the enemy was able to mostly deflect those attacks, too. IMO, there's no sense in applying real world physics to this show, because there's no point in taking this show that seriously. It may *want* us to take it more seriously, but the events and background of it really make that impossible for me. I'll just try to enjoy it for what it is rather than what it wants to be. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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Why are people worrying about the real world plausibility of a plasma(?) sword slicing bullets? We've already seen that people were walking around normally on a Martian space vessel which means they have access to technology that can create gravity. Once you posit that there is tech advanced enough that it can create artificial gravity, everything else is small potatoes.
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Yttrbio
 Posts: 3652 |
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Well, technically, if the space ships were hovering, rather than orbiting, and were close enough, they'd have only somewhat reduced gravity than the surface of Earth. That's really expensive in terms of energy, but that doesn't seem to be much of an issue for these folks. Then again, I think they were hanging out in the asteroid ring which would probably be a moon's distance away, so maybe not...
I don't think the dude was cutting all the HE bullets, he was creating a wall of heat that causes them all to explode. Or so I choose to think, because it's slightly less idiotic. And maybe shrapnel couldn't penetrate his armor, though then it's kind of pointless to... wait, wait, brain, stop thinking about it! |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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That's exactly what he was doing. The thing is, like I said before, causing them to explode is not going to cancel out the momentum of all the shrapnel, which will now be superheated and still travelling towards the mech. Except now they'll be like plasma grapeshot and presumably capable of burning through his armour. So all the fancy sword should have done is turn a grunt's standard machinegun into a devastating plasma shotgun (with automatic fire no less). Nice. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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@ Yttrbio - yeah, it was made very clear that the Martian "landing castles" were hidden in the moonaroid belt (for 15 years!), so they were in zero G.
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