Forum - View topicAldnoah.Zero (TV) (both seasons).
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ChibiKangaroo
 Posts: 2941 |
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It's pointless because if, as you are arguing, there is no difference between spoiler[Inaho shooting down the plane as he did and Inaho getting it to land safely on the ground somewhere, then why in the hell did he shoot it down? The plane had almost no weapons left. The weapons were clearly not capable of doing any damage to that massive battleship they just acquired. Slaine was obviously working with them, and clearly wanted the princess to stay alive. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for Inaho to shoot down the plane.] The excuses have been absolutely silly and based on implied arguments of spoiler["well what if Slaine was like some super ninja who could somehow teleport onto the battleship and grab the princess and then teleport away into space to take her away from Inaho."] It's absolute rubbish. The ONLY reason spoiler[they had Inaho shoot down the plane was because the writers wanted some extra drama, and to have us watch another one of these "twists" of Slaine getting kicked around when he's trying to help.] There was no other purpose from it. spoiler[If what you are saying is true and he wasn't trying to harm the craft or kill Slaine, then the craft could have escaped any serious damage from his attack and turned around to kill Inaho.] Why take that risk? That makes no sense. If spoiler[Inaho was always intending to capture Slaine and the plane, then the most obvious and smart way to do it would be to easily convince him to land, by saying he gets to see the princess. It was something he was practically begging for.] Sorry, Inaho's actions make no sense either way. Either spoiler[he took the most risky course to capture Slaine and his plane, or he was totally incompetent in trying to kill Slaine.] Which is it? |
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13226 |
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It's spoiler["he assured his capture while neutralizing a potential risk."]
Your argument is based less on logic and more on the knowledge we're privvy to as the audience. We know that Slaine is trustworthy and truely cares about the princess. Inaho does not. Asking Slaine nicely to land and surrender himself isn't a bad option, but which is safer? Trusting the word of a stranger that he's dropped his gun, or getting rid of the gun yourself? |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18186 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Just watched the episode, and I think I can end one big chunk of the argument now. Take a look at this shot, which was very easy to miss because it was only on the screen a fraction of the second. (Took several attempts to even get the screen shot.)
What are we looking at there? spoiler[The guns on Slaine's airship, a frame or two before Inaho fired. IOW, Slaine fired first in response to Inaho's statement, "If [Princess Asseyleum] is exploited, would you have a problem with that?" Inaho merely defensively retaliated, and clearly did not do it in the most harmful way he could have given his position.] And even aside from that, spoiler[what would a Gundam-esque story be without two young men coming to blows over a princess?] Now, that being said, I thought the episode did fudge on a few other things for dramatic effect. Still, I look forward to some interesting consequences and fall-out next time. |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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To be honest, spoiler[I took that as them firing at the same time. I don't know how else it would be possible that Slaine missed Inaho at point blank range (particularly since he was just shooting rocket fists out of the sky with single shots) unless Inaho was already ready for it and attacking Slaine at the same time. It also doesn't change much of my thoughts since the main point was that Inaho should have said "sure you'll see the princess" and gotten him to land the plane, rather than drawing him into a firefight. I've never seen any instance where a military tactician chose a violent confrontation instead of first attempting to get the other guy to surrender when there was an obvious and low-risk option for the non-violent surrender.] |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Oh Slaine, why did you refuse to tell Inaho what was going on?
spoiler[As for Slaine shooting first, I don't actually blame him for that since it was obvious that 1): Inaho had just told him that he was exploiting the princess (and for all Slaine knew she was being held captive), and 2): Inaho was acting weird with his line of questioning and was probably going to shoot him anyway.] |
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meiam
Posts: 3442 |
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spoiler[Good catch, but then it bring a whole new even more ridiculous question, why did Slayne shoot at inaho? Did he seriously thought he could take him on, and then attack the ship on his own and rescue the princess alone? They weren't in a situation where they absolutely had to take a decision in the immediate moment so those are the kind of question they should have been able to answer for themselves] |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18186 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Then think about it this way: Consider carefully what Inaho said to initiate that exchange.spoiler["If we did exploit her, would you have a problem with that?" From a tactical military standpoint, she's an invaluable asset if used right. Even if he felt confident that the person he was talking to couldn't take the princess with him by force, even if he felt confident that this mysterious person wasn't going to kill her, why risk the chance that he might convince her to want to leave or stop helping them? And before you bring up the "they could always control his access to her" argument, consider that Inaho knows, from personal experience, that she's fairly capable, and would doubtless seek him out if she got any wind of his presence - and there's little chance that she wouldn't.]
Frankly, even if you're going to claim that spoiler[they did shoot simultaneously (and I'm more inclined to think that Inaho had his weapon ready and trained just in case something like this happened)], I still don't see that as a big problem. If you can't reconcile that there is logic to the way he behaved, then consider that Inaho has, on occasion, shown a predilection for machismo in his actions (if not necessarily his voice and expression) and machismo always trumps logic. 
And meaim: As I mentioned above, spoiler[consider what Inaho had just told Slaine. That was a pretty damn provocative statement, Slaine had no way to know what Orange's relationship to the princess really was, and Slaine was probably more than a bit high-strung by that point given what all else he had pulled to get there.] And on a different subject, I'm just as curious about spoiler[Lord Saazbaum's reaction to hearing that they were at Tanegashima. Did he fear exactly what happened?] |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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I agree that she is.
These two are both demonstrably true as well
I doubt he believes that he could hold her against her will. She is only an invaluable military asset as long as she is cooperating. There are only two things that make her invaluable: (1) the fact that she's alive, and (2) her magical powers. The fact that she is alive is only invaluable in that if that fact could be adequately broadcast to the Vers and Earth population, it could end the war. Therefore, if you assume she is only going to leave once letting the world know she is alive (which would be the only smart thing to do), spoiler[then there is really nothing Inaho has to worry about in regard to Slaine convincing her to leave.] As to her magical powers, again they are only useful to Inaho if she cooperates. If Inaho tries to hold her indefinitely against her will as some kind of hostage, she will stop helping them. That would be a terrible strategy for him. spoiler[Thus, I don't see any heightened risk from a helpful, non-assassin Vers guy being allowed to be on the same ship as her. Whether he actually speaks to her is another question.] Like I said, almost any standard military protocol would have him brought into interrogation. After that, the commanding officer would decide what to do with him. It's just not Inaho's call. Plain and simple, he's a grunt.
He would have to make the same assumption spoiler[that she would get wind of his presence given that he was flying an aircraft right in front of her. If Inaho shoots it down, now he's just potentially attacked one of her friends.] Again, that is just not good common sense.
I am totally fine with this, as I've said before, if people want to call it Inaho using his "Inaho is the badass boss man" button, yep I agree. I just think it's bad. Some people like it I'm sure, but I think it's just another example of them overplaying him as a character. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15462 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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You are also making the assumption that just handing the princess over would end the war. The one who seems to think that is the Princess, but surely she does not know her own people, so they probably should hold onto her a little longer. Inaho's spoiler[question allowed him to gage exactly how desperate Slaine was to take the princess away, that he would actually fire on Inaho if he thought they were exploiting the princess, which it will at least look like.] And just as the picture Key showed, if spoiler[Inaho was not ready, then he would be dead], maybe not a logical move by Han Solo, but people are not always logical.
Wait, in this context is spoiler[Slaine Han Solo, or is it Inaho? Well maybe it would be Inaho if we considered the HD version]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQb-kFbGSKg |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18186 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Yeah, I'm afraid, ChibiKangaroo, that you're now engaging in the kind of "what if?" game that you were accusing others of using earlier.
Besides, DP brings up a pretty good point about how Inaho could have been handling that situation. |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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I don't see where I was engaging in "what if" speculation. I was stating things that appear to be givens in the show that I think shouldn't be that controversial, like the fact that the princess would like to let people know she is alive with the intention that they would stop fighting. I also just said why I think she is valuable, and that it's not really feasible that Inaho would think he can hold her as a hostage. I mean sure, there's a lot of subjectivity in all of this, but that's dramatically different than the arguments put forth earlier that were mostly based on paranoid reasoning and illogical possibilities |
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Knoepfchen
 Posts: 698 |
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I don't get the criticism of Inaho's actions in the end at all. Frankly, it elevated an already very engaging episode more for me. I was sitting there, fearing for some sort of spoiler[premature brotherly bonding and Slaine being embraced as the long lost son.] I would have disliked something like that in a show that's trying very hard (sometimes with more, sometimes with less success) to portray things in the "grim and realistic" sort of fashion. It made perfect sense for Inaho to act the way he did, spoiler[aligning himself with his enemy's enemy for pragmatical reasons and taking out the danger and unpredictability they represent once their common enemy has been taken care of. If Slaine hadn't been inside a flying airship at that point, he would probably just have had him arrested and interrogated (which is likely still going to happen, anyway, as it was obvious he was trying to down the aircraft with as little damage as possible).] With those statements made during the episode about using your enemy's enemy without them having to be your buddy, Inaho would have come out as mighty naive if he hadn't been alarmed by spoiler[Slaine trying to avoid answering his questions.]
The princess spoiler[revealing her identity] this early was a surprise. My only point of critique at this point is that the adults and military personnel really need to start getting some amount of spotlight sometime soon, which, hopefully, might happen with that spoiler[lovely new toy] they conveniently happened to find just in time. Well, at least it wasn't hidden below the school, but spoiler[on Tanegashima], which, even without the in-series incident, makes the convenience of the accidental discovery somewhat easier to accept for me. Definitely on a good track after last week's somewhat repetitive episode. |
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meiam
Posts: 3442 |
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You know, between the spoiler[new super ship and the fact that there might soon be a super mech involve], we're pretty much 100% into gundam territory now… sigh. I was pretty happy that they seems to try, somewhat, to steer clear of it what with the lack of a super mech and all, but yeah, I guess someone in production got cold feet and went "HAweewww we need a super ship now!". I get that originality is dead and all that, but couldn't they rip off one of the less ripped off mech show? God I can't wait for the patlabor movie to be release, with a bit a luck we'll get a bunch of mech show ripping it off for a few season.
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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^
I agree. They've already been defeating the Vers with a normal ship and normal robots. spoiler[Now they get an aldnoah battleship (which we haven't even seen the current Vers have) and an aldnoah kataphract that either Slaine or Inaho will pilot.] Of course it was always going to happen - the princess had to be given something to do - but it is disappointing nonetheless. |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13226 |
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There was only so much they could do with their inferior tech, though. They did pretty well in their previous battles, but they would have lost this one if not for Slaine's intervention and the ship's reveal.
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