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Aldnoah.Zero (TV) (both seasons).


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Dessa



Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 4438
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:12 pm Reply with quote
Yup! Episode 42 aired last Sunday, and it appears it'll be 46 or 47 episodes long. There was a crossover with ToQger that's not counted as an episode, the Kikaider movie tie-in filler, and the summer movie tie-in filler. Otherwise, he wrote every episode of actual story.
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:33 pm Reply with quote
I think large part of what make this series disappointing (but not terrible, its middle entertaining, but far below what the budget/talent should accomplish) is how much the bad stuff seems to be there just for cheap/artificial drama and just all around lack of guts to try and do stuff differently than most mech anime. That and the fact that the show seems to be slowly walking back on pretty much everything that made it initially interesting, like the appearance of super ship for the sake of having a super ship like pretty much every mech show.

The over reliance on coincidence isn't even needed in most case. For example by just changing a few things you can eliminate most of it. Say instead of having a ship who just happen to have for captain the sister of the best friend of the only survivor of the last attack coincidentally pick them up and go to the destroyed base for bogus reason (I still don't see why they decided to go to an abandoned base to re supply, sure they thought there'd be no enemy, but there's also no supply and ally), you could instead have it so the ship is piloted by people who are the crew of the super ship. Once the ver attacked, the crew decided to go and pick up Marito (while the ship was being finished) since he's the only one with actual combat experience and would be really useful to have around, then after picking him and Inaho and co they set for the base because there going back to get the ship itself, this way you also eliminate the "giant punch coincidentally is deflect at the exact spot to open a secret gallery" and it also give a good reason for why there able to pilot the ship right after finding it and you don't need to have the secret base be empty. But no, they needed to to shoehorn the student as pilot of the super ship (like it really matter, all the student combined have maybe 10 minute of development time) because that's what mech anime do.

Now the super ship shouldn't even be in it, the single most interesting aspect of this series is that the terran are outgunned, removing that leave it really flat. But if they absolutely have to keep it in, it'd be far more interesting if the terran were reverse engineering the super mech and building the ship from new technology they'd have researched themselves, rather than plugging a generator they literally have no way of using into a ship they build without even knowing if they'd ever use it. You eliminate the whole "princess is needed to drive the ship" but that doesn't matter since the princess is already needed to stop the war anyway. Plus it's cooler if the terran are beating the alien with at least somewhat human tech rather than having to rely completely on alien tech.
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relyat08



Joined: 20 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:30 pm Reply with quote
^ Seriously, all of that and more. There is just no end to the dumb decision making by the characters of(and creators of) this show. I am asking myself "why didn't _____ do this/go there/say that etc..." multiple times per episode and it has gotten very frustrating. Both this and my other most anticipated show of this season(Terror) have been extremely disappointing so far... Confused

dtm42 wrote:

Kamen Rider Gaim, if I'm not mistaken.


Ah, Live-action. That explains why I hadn't heard of it.
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Ohoni



Joined: 10 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:51 am Reply with quote
I was a bit behind on the thread so I started skimming a bit towards the end. I just want to say I LOVED the shot fired at the end of Ep 7, I thought it was in character and fun.

spoiler[As to what happened between Eps 7 and 8? Clearly Slaine crashed, but in a super high tech SPACESHIP, so the cabin could easily have 100% protected him both from damage and incoming water until rescue arrived. Note that the cabin was entirely intact when it hit the water, so it could only be breached by the impact, and I imagine Vers tech is tougher than that.

Why didn't the humans save him? What would they use? They have a battle ship, but did you see lifting cranes? Would they know how to operate them if they did? Their mechs couldn't life the plane, they can barely lift themselves. If Slaine was outside the ship maybe they could get them, but for all we know the ship submerged almost immediately with him inside it. The Vers could easily recover him though, and keep in mind that the waters he sunk in were likely very shallow, being within the artificial harbor created by meteor impact. Probably a couple hundred feet, if that. Vers Kats would have no trouble with that.]


It would have been nice if they'd made some of that more explicit, but I suppose they cut it for time.

Quote:

But I have another bone (well two actually) with this episode. One is the series of event which over rely on coincidence. The princess come down in a city in japan that by coincidence happen to be the same one that the only survivor of the last attack live in. She then, by coincidence avoid, getting killed and, by coincidence, find herself in the last ship to leave the city which, by coincidence, happen to have the last survivor of the previous attack and, by coincidence, also has the last survivor of the assassination plot. They then, by coincidence, get on the ship with the sister of the best friend of the lieutenant that died in the previous attack. Then they head to the last attack spot, which is by coincidence the closest base to them (are there no other bases in japan?). There they get attack by giant punch lady and they, by coincidence, deflect her punch into the side of the mountain, the perfect spot to open the secret base. And there they find that, by coincidence, there's a giant ship which they somehow already know how to fly and use it's weapon. I'm fine with a few coincidence, but when your plot is entirely directed by it...


I think you may have a problem with using the word "coincidence" too often.
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:48 am Reply with quote
Ohoni wrote:
I think you may have a problem with using the word "coincidence" too often.


I think the show has a problem with using coincidence too often.
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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:29 am Reply with quote
Ohoni wrote:

spoiler[

Why didn't the humans save him? What would they use? They have a battle ship, but did you see lifting cranes? Would they know how to operate them if they did? Their mechs couldn't life the plane, they can barely lift themselves. If Slaine was outside the ship maybe they could get them, but for all we know the ship submerged almost immediately with him inside it. The Vers could easily recover him though, and keep in mind that the waters he sunk in were likely very shallow, being within the artificial harbor created by meteor impact. Probably a couple hundred feet, if that. Vers Kats would have no trouble with that.]



Assuming that any of this is true, it just made Inaho's decision even more idiotic. Thank you again for proving my point. Inaho becomes stupid when the plot demands it for dramatic reasons, and when the plot wants him to be the greatest genius who has ever existed, then that's what he becomes.
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Ohoni



Joined: 10 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:11 am Reply with quote
Quote:

Assuming that any of this is true, it just made Inaho's decision even more idiotic. Thank you again for proving my point. Inaho becomes stupid when the plot demands it for dramatic reasons, and when the plot wants him to be the greatest genius who has ever existed, then that's what he becomes.


We don't know Inaho's motivations, and cannot fully judge his wisdom until it all plays out, but I can think of perfectly good reasons for his actions. Here are few points to keep in mind:
spoiler[
1. Taking Slaine captive was not a reasonable option. Inaho was riding Slaine's plane, and slaine had his guns aimed at him. Had Inaho made any move to try and force Slaine into complying, Slaine could have shot him, dumped him from altitude, any number of things. It may have been possible to take him in alive, but it would have been extremely risky, at least to himself.

2. Slaine Shot first. Do not forget or minimize this fact. Slaine was the one that pulled the trigger first, with zero overt provocation. Inaho did not threaten him in any way, he just implied that he may be willing to exploit the Princess in some way, and would not say any further. Inaho just responded in kind, and did a better job at it. Why did Slaine miss? Probably because those guns were never intended to be fired point blank and were not aligned properly for that task. Had Inaho not fired back, what could he have done other than just run away?

3. Inaho did not shoot to kill. He shot the right engine, not the crew cabin, which would have killed Slaine instantly. He could have killed Slaine outright, he chose to disable his vehicle instead. He had a reasonable expectation that they would find and rescue him.]


From all of this, I believe the following narrative makes sense: spoiler[He did not trust Slaine, because Slaine is always cagey, but he did not hate Slaine. Slaine was paranoid and tried to kill him, so Inaho disabled his vehicle, allowing himself to get away alive, and giving Slaine a chance at surviving as well, without remaining a threat. Why does this scenario not fit for you?]
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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:15 am Reply with quote
Ohoni wrote:


We don't know Inaho's motivations, and cannot fully judge his wisdom until it all plays out, but I can think of perfectly good reasons for his actions. Here are few points to keep in mind:
spoiler[
1. Taking Slaine captive was not a reasonable option. Inaho was riding Slaine's plane, and slaine had his guns aimed at him. Had Inaho made any move to try and force Slaine into complying, Slaine could have shot him, dumped him from altitude, any number of things. It may have been possible to take him in alive, but it would have been extremely risky, at least to himself.

2. Slaine Shot first. Do not forget or minimize this fact. Slaine was the one that pulled the trigger first, with zero overt provocation. Inaho did not threaten him in any way, he just implied that he may be willing to exploit the Princess in some way, and would not say any further. Inaho just responded in kind, and did a better job at it. Why did Slaine miss? Probably because those guns were never intended to be fired point blank and were not aligned properly for that task. Had Inaho not fired back, what could he have done other than just run away?

3. Inaho did not shoot to kill. He shot the right engine, not the crew cabin, which would have killed Slaine instantly. He could have killed Slaine outright, he chose to disable his vehicle instead. He had a reasonable expectation that they would find and rescue him.]


From all of this, I believe the following narrative makes sense: spoiler[He did not trust Slaine, because Slaine is always cagey, but he did not hate Slaine. Slaine was paranoid and tried to kill him, so Inaho disabled his vehicle, allowing himself to get away alive, and giving Slaine a chance at surviving as well, without remaining a threat. Why does this scenario not fit for you?]


We have already explained this about a million times.

1. spoiler[He didn't have to "force" Slaine to do anything. Slaine was already asking to see the princess, so that means he was already prepared to be taken aboard their shiny new flying battleship. Inaho should have said "Yes, you will see the princess. Land over there please, and we will put your plane on that battleship there, and I'll take you to her." Problem solved.]

2. spoiler[There were no threats required, and no one had to shoot anyone, if #1 had simply been done. Instead, Inaho chose to instigate a confrontation with Slaine, which produced nothing of value for his side.]

3. spoiler[Why in the world would it benefit Inaho for Slaine to be captured by the very people he just obviously betrayed by helping the terrans? He's likely to be executed, or at the very least tortured for information about the terrans (which is exactly what happened). That is insanely stupid for Inaho. You keep that asset for yourself, you don't give it back to the enemy so they can do something with it.]

The narrative still makes no sense. The only way that this possibly could have made sense is spoiler[if the terrans had captured Slaine and his jet after Inaho shot it down.] That is what all of the people on the other side of this argument were predicting would happen. That didn't happen. Now there's nothing left but to acknowledge that it was nothing but a dramatic stunt to torture Slaine some more, since that is one of the driving themes of this show.
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getchman
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:27 am Reply with quote
I don't think Inaho cares about anybody except himself and probably his sister. if we look at it that way, spoiler[abandoning Saine] is entirely reasonable
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:24 pm Reply with quote
^
That's what's known as a Straw Vulcan.

Sometimes to protect those you care for, the most logical thing to do is to help your enemies. Ultra-logical Inaho kind of got this idea when he helped Slaine fight Rocket Punch Girl. However Inaho then proceeded into Straw Vulcan territory where he - for no stated reason - abandoned someone who had a high probability of being useful to him.
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:59 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
for no stated reason

It was stated earlier in the same episode from Inaho's mouth that he thought the "bat" was still an enemy during the middle of the fight with the multi fisted mech, and with Slaine unable to spill out his real thoughts (which is an ongoing issue with Slaine) Slaine was unable to put up a convincing argument for why he should be treated as an ally and not an enemy.
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dtm42



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:11 pm Reply with quote
I just realised that straw vulcans are supposed to be examples used against logic, but Aldnoah.Zero is actually sanctioning Inaho's baffling logic. Not quite the same thing.

FenixFiesta wrote:
t was stated earlier in the same episode from Inaho's mouth that he thought the "bat" was still an enemy during the middle of the fight with the multi fisted mech, and with Slaine unable to spill out his real thoughts (which is an ongoing issue with Slaine) Slaine was unable to put up a convincing argument for why he should be treated as an ally and not an enemy.


Have you not been following the thread? Or the show?

spoiler[This week Inaho confirmed that he knows Slaine was on the side of the princess, which means that whole thing at the end of episode seven was a test. That Slaine passed. Then Inaho just left him there. Wow. Nice job Inaho. Heck, even if Slaine hadn't been loyal to the princess, a Vers prisoner would still be incredibly useful for intelligence purposes.]
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getchman
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:33 pm Reply with quote
which makes me believe he didn't care even if he knew the truth. maybe he's doing what Rayet wishes she could do, kill all martians. or perhaps it was for shits and giggles. I'm not saying it makes sense, it doesn't right now, but something weird is going on with him
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Key
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:33 pm Reply with quote
ChibiKangaroo wrote:
3. spoiler[Why in the world would it benefit Inaho for Slaine to be captured by the very people he just obviously betrayed by helping the terrans? He's likely to be executed, or at the very least tortured for information about the terrans (which is exactly what happened). That is insanely stupid for Inaho. You keep that asset for yourself, you don't give it back to the enemy so they can do something with it.]

And this is based on a huge, unsupported assumption by you and the people arguing this viewpoint: that Inaho would naturally assume that Slaine had betrayed the Vers just because he was fighting against another Vers. We've pointed out time and again that the Earth forces pilots were openly speculating earlier in the episode about whether or not there was infighting amongst the Vers. Hell, the Lieutenant even mentioned at least once (if not more than once) in earlier episodes that because of the nature of the Vers Empire, they might not be above conflicting with one another to get the prize of wiping out the most Earth forces.

And there's also the possibility - which people seem utterly unwilling to accept - that Inaho JUST FREAKIN' MADE A MISTAKE and the writing always intended it to look that way. (Tactical wonder or no, he's still both a teenager and a human and thus eminently fallible.) I had the impression that he was more or less admitting that to the princess in episode 8.
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leatherhead333



Joined: 15 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:15 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:

And there's also the possibility - which people seem utterly unwilling to accept - that Inaho JUST FREAKIN' MADE A MISTAKE and the writing always intended it to look that way. (Tactical wonder or no, he's still both a teenager and a human and thus eminently fallible.) I had the impression that he was more or less admitting that to the princess in episode 8.


It would be nice if people ACTUALLY gave him crap for some of his choices though. Every decision he has made so far absouletly no one disagrees with him or find anything wrong with how he thinks. That in itself makes it hard to accept that he's made any bad choices based on the fact no one faults him in any way for his mistakes (because most of the time his thinking is perfect). Yes they speculated in fighting between the two but that still doesn't mean taking a prisoner from the other side should be COMPLETELY out of the question. If someone had at least brought the situation up it would have been acceptable. The fact that Inaho brings it up to the princess while she merely brushes it off doesn't help to support the idea Inaho within his logic made a mistake.

I would actually like to see him team up with Marito since he has more actual experience than Inaho for some potential character growth but I'm not sure if Marito will be useable for a while with his PTSD acting up.
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