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Aldnoah.Zero (TV) (both seasons).


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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:34 pm Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:


It's all a matter of the circumstances. That's why trials have juries. Here we have a young girl who is emotionally unstable, acting on the spur of the moment, and is quite horrified by her actions. Obviously a simple "sorry" won't cut it but there are many things she can do to redeem herself.


The jury is generally there to rule on whether the person actually did it or not. Whether the person was emotionally unstable or not is not a big issue as far as their culpability. If it could be proved that they were completely insane, then they might serve their lengthy prison sentence in a hospital under constant watch, or some center for the criminally insane. But I don't think that's what we're looking at here. spoiler[She would be looking at the equivalent of Second Degree Murder (i.e. intentionally killing someone without premeditation, but with malice aforethought). That would almost certainly give her a life sentence.]

Quote:

Women whom they can't actually do anything with. Pretty hellish.


Who says they can't do anything with their harems? There's usually a competition between the members of the harem for the guy's love, and one of them will pretty much always win. Sometimes more than one of them win, and even after the lucky lad chooses his hot, huge breasted wife or wives, the other members of the harem generally hang about to continue serving him. That's hell?

EmbraceMe wrote:
ChibiKangaroo wrote:

Unfortunately, people who commit "kill on that moment" murder are not redeemable individuals. It doesn't matter if they are sane or not. They go to prison for life sentences or are executed.


I don't know where you reside but the system works differently here in America -- murder is measure on the intent of the individual (mens rea). The punishment also depends on the severity of the crime and intents of the persecuted.


I live in the U.S. Please read my explanation above about Second Degree Murder.
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Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 13227
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:27 pm Reply with quote
You're still assuming 1.) they'll figure out she did it, and 2.) spoiler[that Asseylum won't forgive her once she recovers.]

In the end, whether Rayet's actions ruined her character or not is entirely your own decision, not the show's.
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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:49 pm Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:
You're still assuming 1.) they'll figure out she did it, and 2.) spoiler[that Asseylum won't forgive her once she recovers.]

In the end, whether Rayet's actions ruined her character or not is entirely your own decision, not the show's.


Well yes, how her actions affected her as a character IS our decision. That's kind of the whole point of discussing it in these forums. Simply stating that "maybe they won't catch her" doesn't change the fact that we know what she did. We, the audience, are impacted by that. What you are saying is kind of like if we took the approach that Light Yagami's character wouldn't be evil as long as the police never caught him. That's just not an effective argument. spoiler[Rayet is now either an attempted murderer or a murderer. Nothing that happens from here on out will change that, and only an ass-pull will be able to undo what she did.]
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leatherhead333



Joined: 15 Aug 2013
Posts: 1187
Location: Kansas
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:05 pm Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:
You're still assuming 1.) they'll figure out she did it, and 2.) spoiler[that Asseylum won't forgive her once she recovers.]

In the end, whether Rayet's actions ruined her character or not is entirely your own decision, not the show's.


1. How would they NOT find out about it? Inaho and the princess's servant are on their way back to the shower. With the ship losing power they are obviously going to immediately rush there. Rayet is the ONLY person in there. And they are going to notice the spoiler[markings of the necklace on her neck to conclude she was strangled with it.] Honestly it wouldn't take a 10th graders basic knowledge to figure this out. She spoiler[can't simply say she fainted or anything to that effect. She's the culprit no matter how you slice it and if she manages to get away with it here I'm calling BS.]

2. I have no doubts that spoiler[when the Princess wakes up she will likely forgive her but the road to that forgiveness] better be a bumpy one instead of spoiler["Ah well you were jealous of me and hate me because of something I had absouletly no control over. It's fine that you tried to kill me] Laughing.


Cptn_Taylor wrote:


Exactly, the most often cause for murder is "kill on that moment" no premeditation, no planning nothing. It's a raptus, a moment of folly. Sane people can and do murder on the spot if the conditions are just right. There is nothing abnormal about it.
spoiler[Rayet while not liking the princess from the first moment just broke because of a series of moments in the episode and finally gave way to her impulse.]


Emotionally deranged or not that never excuses unprovoked spoiler[attempted murder.] I suppose spoiler[husbands acting on emotion and killing their wifes because they made them mad should be excused because it's a basic normal human thing to do right?] Sorry but I'm pretty sure that NEVER flies anywhere. A person who calls themselves spoiler[sane yet kills an innocent person unprovoked knows full well what they are doing and the "heat of the moment" excuse never works.]

I actually would have minded this development had it not been so jarring and out of nowhere. If she has to have that whole "I hate all Martians" mentality whatever. But spoiler[doing their job for them isn't exactly going to help.] Whatever line of reasoning she was using is in no way justified nor understandable forspoiler[ a cause of murder at this point.
]
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2581
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:21 pm Reply with quote
I will table flip out back handspring on this series spoiler[if Asseyleum magnanimously forgives Rayet. ]
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 3442
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:13 pm Reply with quote
FenixFiesta wrote:
I will table flip out back handspring on this series spoiler[if Asseyleum magnanimously forgives Rayet. ]


You must be new to anime. Cool

In all seriousness I'd be extremely surprised if she didn't, she'll probably even do it by blaming herself for it happening. spoiler[Cause we all know that pandered princess always turned out to be saint.]

spoiler[On the legality side, even if the victim forgive the aggressor, law still apply. See people put on trial for killing there suffering loved one even after they specifically asked for it.]
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Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:02 pm Reply with quote
ChibiKangaroo wrote:
Simply stating that "maybe they won't catch her" doesn't change the fact that we know what she did.


Right, but that was more directed at your "She should be tried and executed for it" comment. spoiler[They didn't seem to notice her when they entered the shower, so it's possible she could hide herself or escape, which then would lead to a "Who attacked the princess" hunt through the ship.]

leatherhead333 wrote:
Emotionally deranged or not that never excuses unprovoked spoiler[attempted murder.] I suppose spoiler[husbands acting on emotion and killing their wifes because they made them mad should be excused because it's a basic normal human thing to do right?]


No one's saying anything about excusing anyone. However since it was done in a moment of weakness and if she's sorry for what she did and seeks to make up for it, then they're hardly irredeemable.
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getchman
Space Cowboy



Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 9120
Location: Bedford, NH
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:59 pm Reply with quote
so what exactly is the problem people are having here? that an spoiler[emotionally unstable teenage girl gave into an impulse and probably murdered another character]? I don't see a problem with this
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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:05 pm Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:
ChibiKangaroo wrote:
Simply stating that "maybe they won't catch her" doesn't change the fact that we know what she did.


Right, but that was more directed at your "She should be tried and executed for it" comment. spoiler[They didn't seem to notice her when they entered the shower, so it's possible she could hide herself or escape, which then would lead to a "Who attacked the princess" hunt through the ship.]


Why must you misquote me? I was saying that that's what happens to murderers. They don't simply get to say spoiler["Ohh, sorry I had a little lapse in judgment that time when I strangled some innocent person to death.] It's okay though, I learned my lesson and it won't happen again! Let's hug it out." No, society demands that they pay for their crime. Whether they get caught is an entirely different matter, but not getting caught doesn't somehow redeem them... Confused Confused
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2581
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:07 pm Reply with quote
getchman wrote:
so what exactly is the problem people are having here? that an spoiler[emotionally unstable teenage girl gave into an impulse and probably murdered another character]? I don't see a problem with this

It is the part that is that "it was very convenient that the person I despise shows up, and her personal assistant who normally is NEVER away had to leave at that moment"
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Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 13227
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:14 pm Reply with quote
ChibiKangaroo wrote:
Why must you misquote me? I was saying that that's what happens to murderers. They don't simply get to say spoiler["Ohh, sorry I had a little lapse in judgment that time when I strangled some innocent person to death.] It's okay though, I learned my lesson and it won't happen again! Let's hug it out." No, society demands that they pay for their crime. Whether they get caught is an entirely different matter, but not getting caught doesn't somehow redeem them... Confused Confused


Who's misquoting whom? I didn't say that would redeem her. A few of you already have it in your heads that next episode she isn't going to be punished the way you think she should be and it'll be an 'asspull.' I'm just suggesting it could be because she doesn't get caught in the first place.

I find it most disheartening that so many people have this "they did something bad so they can never forgiven, screw the circumstances!" attitude. Maybe it's my Catholic upbringing, but anyone who shows remorse isn't irredeemable.

FenixFiesta wrote:

It is the part that is that "it was very convenient that the person I despise shows up, and her personal assistant who normally is NEVER away had to leave at that moment"


Because such coincidences never happen in real life, right? I think you're looking at it backwards. Situation X didn't happen so Event Y could occur, Event Y occurred because the situation was X.
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2581
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:29 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Because such coincidences never happen in real life, right? I think you're looking at it backwards. Situation X didn't happen so Event Y could occur, Event Y occurred because the situation was X.

Franz Ferdinand's assassin was actually planning to kill him in the first place,spoiler[ this would be different if say Rayet's thoughts for killing the princess were much more concrete prior to having a PTSD episode in place of vaguely saying "I want to kill all martians" several times over, hell I would have bought the scene if while choking Asseyleum out the lines "if it weren't for you, I could still be with my father!" (specifically for dramatical purposes)
To reiterate again, my beef with the situation is that Rayet is my fan fave and the narrative took what I feel to be a strange turn with a character that is much more privy to the goings on than most of the filler cast.
The manner in which the attack occurs makes it imply the reason why Rayet is trying to kill the princess is because "I am super jealous everyone likes you!" and less about redirecting pent up rage.]
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getchman
Space Cowboy



Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 9120
Location: Bedford, NH
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:50 pm Reply with quote
the shower room is probably the best place for that to happen. Who expects to bespoiler[ choked] while bathing? it gives Eldu-something a perfectly valid reason to be out of the room as well. Rayet was taking a rather long time so some company showing up was likely to happen
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Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 13227
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:57 pm Reply with quote
FenixFiesta wrote:
spoiler[hell I would have bought the scene if while choking Asseyleum out the lines "if it weren't for you, I could still be with my father!" (specifically for dramatical purposes)]


I think that would have made things much worse since it would show that she was fully aware of her actions.
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2581
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:03 pm Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:


I think that would have made things much worse since it would show that she was fully aware of her actions.

spoiler[I would rather Rayet be a "villain" instead of being a momentary idiot for plot convenience.]
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