Forum - View topic"Searching for that 5% of anime that is WOW!"
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6523 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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I know this is something of a perennial chestnut but on page 4 of the recent Shelf Life thread - you know, the one about Flowers of Evil - I undertook to Blood-, and was encouraged by Hiroki not Takuya, to respond to the former's charge that I think anime was "better in the day". Now, it requires a certain amount of ego to start a thread based upon one's own opinions so please forgive my brazen attitude and read on.
Also, I think it's more appropriate to have a new thread, rather than take a, thankfully, quiet thread off on a tangent. First, here's the dialogue from that thread. Blood-: I am also very familiar with your "virtually all anime is garbage these days" view so I'm a little suspicious that your interpretation dovetails so nicely with your basic outlook. Yours truly: Really? I feel so misrepresented here. It should read, "virtually all anime is garbage since forever".  I'm always searching for that 5% of anime that is WOW!
Blood-:  I stand corrected. But 'fess up, there is a little bit of the "anime was better back in the day" quality to you, is there not?
Yours truly: I'm gonna be late for work if I keep posting so I'll respond to this later in the day. There's a threat..... And, as if anyone is actually interested. 
Blood-: I am. We Old(fan)Boys gotta stick together. 
Hiroki not Takuya: I am too. So, on to it. I keep it hidden, but I classify all titles in "My Anime" by the year they were first shown, or, in the case of a series, the year the first episode was shown. This means I can easily pull up any year to check what I have seen and the scores I have given. It's then a simple matter to input that information into a spreadsheet and convert it to graphical data. Here's the data showing the average rating I've given to anime titles each year from 1986 to 2013. Prior to 1986 I've seen too few shows to be happy about extrapolating from them. Since 1986 there are also some years with low numbers that should be treated cautiously (1989, 1990, 1991, 1994 and 1996). I haven't included 2014 as it is incomplete and, in any case, I prefer not to watch shows as they air. 
Until 2000 no year had an average score higher than 6.5 (midway between decent and good). With one notable exception (2005) from 2001 no year had an average score lower than 6.5. The trend has been steadily upward. The following years had average scores of 7.0 or higher (good or better): 2003, 2004, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011 and 2012. My highest rated year, with a score of 7.21, is 2008 followed by 2011 with 7.12. You'll see what makes them special shortly. It could be argued, however, that a year should be judged not by its mean but by its exceptional titles. I've rated about 5% of the anime I've seen as masterpiece (19 out of 388, counting the ONA and movie versions of Time of Eve only once). Here is a year by year count of those titles I've rated as masterpieces. Prior to 1998 - 0 (7 titles rated as excellent) 1998 1 Serial Experiments Lain 1999 0 (3 titles rated as excellent) 2000 1 Comedy 2001 2 Millennium Actress, Noir 2002 2 Haibane Renmei, Princess Tutu 2003 1 Gunslinger Girl 2004 1 Koi Kaze 2005 1 Mushi-Shi 2006 1 Paprika 2007 1 Moribito - Guardian of the Spirit 2008 3 Aria the Origination, Spice and Wolf Season 1, Time of Eve 2009 1 Spice and Wolf Season 2 2010 1 House of Five Leaves 2011 3 Bunny Drop, Hyouge Mono, Puella Magi Madoka Magica 2012 0 (6 titles rated as very good) 2013 0 (1 title rated as excellent) 2014 0 (1 title rated as excellent) Viewed this way, I might say that, while 2012 and 2013 were above average years, they haven't yet provided me with any of those special 5 percenters. Going by the graph and the table I suppose my "back in day" would be the years from 2006 to 2011. My criticism of the last two years (and, yes, I know all generalisations are dangerous) is that they lack titles containing both adult characters and serious content, which is highly ironic given that 2011 contains the most determinedly adult anime ever made, Hyouge Mono (not simply because of its content but for its sophisticated wit and intricate themes). Here's another dangerous generalisation: the moe era is giving way to the era of farce. There is so little anime I can take seriously these days, even if I do enjoy them. Farce can never have that WOW! factor, unless, like Hyouge Mono, it manages to encapsulate much, much more under its veneer. Conclusion. If Blood- is correct in his accusation that I think anime was superior "back in the day" then it was a pretty recent "back in the day". Two so-so years do not a winter of discontent make. To other people I ask - at the risk of encouraging lists - what year contains your greatest number of masterpieces? When was your "back in the day"? What say you, Blood-? Hiroki not Takuya? Last edited by Errinundra on Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:15 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Crisha
Moderator
 Posts: 4290 |
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Oh man, I'm gonna have fun with this when I get home. Like you, I have an Excel spreadsheet where I keep track of all of the scores and averages for all of the anime I've completed. On one sheet I've organized them by year (on the date it was first released, same as you), and on another sheet I do them by the animation company (which is harder to determine for several titles). The year one is mostly up-to-date, but the company one still needs some work.
Also, I use the Tags feature on my MAL list to keep track of all of the dates and animation companies for each title. Here's the list of completed series. Series I've more recently completed have not yet been filled in. My trends tend to be the same as yours, errinundra, where a majority of my masterpieces and excellents are from the 2000s, with Rose of Versailles (1979), Kiki's Delivery Service (1989), Whisper of the Heart (1995), and Revolutionary Girl Utena (1997) being the masterpiece exceptions. I think 2007 is one of my strongest years. A majority of the 2000s are in the 7.0-8.0 range, and the 90s tend to be lower. Of course, I haven't seen as many titles from the 90s, and even fewer from the 80s. The basic take-away message is that my averages have the same trends as yours. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23761 |
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Well done, errinundra - I'd say that you have more than adequately refuted my implication that you are an irascible, grey-haired grump sitting on his porch waving his cane as he yells at kids to get off his lawn while bemoaning the precipitous drop in anime quality compared with days of yore.
I am even more stingy with the Masterpiece rating than you are. I like to list anime I have watched by TV, OVA and movie/special. Unfortunately, to do that at ANN I had to create new folders for OVAs and movies/specials and when you do that, you cannot use ANN's built-in rating system the way you can with the default "Seen All" folder (where I store all the TV titles I've watched to completion). Because of this, I have only "officially" rated my TV titles. I've seen OVAs and movies I consider Masterpieces, but I haven't officially rated them such. So out of the 420 TV titles I have seen to completion, six have been bequeathed the coveted "Masterpiece" status: Azumanga Daioh Bakemonogatari* Gunslinger Girl JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: (Phantom Blood & Battle Tendency)* Paranoia Agent Welcome to the NHK Full disclosure forces me to admit that in a moment of weakness I designated Valvrave the Liberator I a Masterpiece before regaining sanity and reducing it to a more appropriate Very Good rating. You'll note that two of the titles above have an asterisks beside them. For Bakemonogatari that means that while I rated it a masterpiece after watching it, I have grown less enchanted wth the Monogatari world as subsequent titles came down the turnpike. I have not rewatched Bake, but I don't expect its rating will survive the experience. Jojo's Bizarre Adventure (Phantom Blood & Battle Tendency) are Masterpieces of Manly Entertainment in my book, but that is somewhat qualified compared with the stand-alone Masterpiece rating. As for the other four: AD, GSG, PA and NHK - those ratings are unshakeable and I wouldn't alter them with a gun to my head. Did you ever watch The Eccentric Family? I gave it an Excellent that was a shade under Masterpiece. I'm not suggesting you'd find it a Masterpiece, but I sense you would enjoy it. Last edited by Blood- on Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 9836 Location: Virginia |
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I'm not going to be able to participate in this, but I think it may help to explain why.
I've never understood this need to precisely rate every anime show I've seen. I do realize that a lot of people here have a great deal of fun (and a lot of arguments) with such ratings. I guess that leaves me as odd man out, which seems to be my natural state in any case. To begin with, I'm not sure what criteria you could possibly be using to rate shows as diverse as Aria, Black Lagoon, Cardcaptor Sakura, Baccano and Initial D. They are all so different as to defy objective comparison except in specific elements. If you don't have specific criteria for these evaluations, I suggest that you are being over precise. Also I'm not sure the significance of linking your evaluations to the year produced. Unless you are trying to show a general trend of improvement or decay (which I don't think exists) I don't see the point. I do evaluate shows as I watch them. Though I never sat down and made a list of such evaluations. However my categories are a lot looser than any I've seen. My top category probably equates to your Excellent and above. It is titled "I really liked that". All the titles listed above fall into that category, though I can't say that any of them is better than the other. My next category contains the bulk of the anime I've seen. It is called "I enjoyed that". Basically the bulge in a bell curve. Next is an unfortunately large category called "That was fun as far as I watched, but I haven't finished it yet". I used to blind buy a lot and still do with non Crunchyroll shows. I sample such shows when they come in but for a variety of reasons don't always finish. I usually intend to. A subset of the above is shows that "Didn't thrill me but people keep claiming are good" this includes Madoka Magica. I probably should try again. The bottom category is "get rid of this" Not a large category but hard to remember as I no longer have the DVDs. This includes Panty and Stocking, Popotan and Irresponsible Captain Tyler. There is of course a large group of shows that, having read enough to know what they are about, I have no intention of watching. Most people have a category like this without giving it much thought. In my case it includes such titles as Battle Royal, any incarnation of Dragonball and most of what reviews call masterpieces. I learned very early that my taste in entertainment seldom matched the people around me. I find it rather funny when people here get upset when someone doesn't like what they do. |
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walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
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Rating by year alone is hard when some of things you like are OVAs or shows that can run into or out of a specific year. The Dirty Pair OVA starts in late 87 but most episodes come out in 88. Gunbuster, Patlabor, and Legend of the Galactic Heroes all start in 88 but don't solely belong to that year either. Though I'm not overly concerned with just masterpieces since I still consider very good or excellent anime to have been both worth my time and worth remembering. Clearly 1988 is a big year for those mentioned titles on top of Dominion Tank Police, AKIRA, Char's Counterattack, VOTOMS: Roots of Ambition, and others. Funny how it's no TV anime, but it's not like I place any higher value on an anime just because it has 13, 26, or 52 episodes. Other years that stick out are 1984 for Nausicca, Beautiful Dreamer, Macross: Do You Remember Love?, and even Star of Cottonland and Birth more for being memorable than necessarily good. But all of this is really in a larger clump of years of anime I enjoy that runs from about 78 to 91. MalGraph puts my highest rated year on 1978 with 8 titles, but that's likely due to overrating the GE999 movie. Otherwise, 1984 it is with two tens, a nine, and two sevens.
That really means nothing to other people if they don't enjoy that older aesthetic, and things can also be skewed if you're only cherrypicking some of the good things you want to see, which is much easier to do when old shows worth seeing were very few per year back then. But also with the more anime you simply watch, the more you're going to find things that tickle your fancy and anyone who says they've "seen everything already" is completely full of shit. Watching or enjoying only masterpieces isn't my goal, it's to see things that are generally entertaining if they're not perfect. Either way, placing criteria on the year over just word of mouth or happenstance won't get you to where you want to be. |
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13224 |
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I'm pretty lenient on most shows, so it might come as a surprise that I have a grand total of one masterpiece rated title on my list (well, two, but only one is an anime). That is, of course, Gunbuster. It stands alone at the top because there has yet to be anything to stand on par with it. A near impossible task to be sure, so if a show doesn't reach that level I won't hold that against it.
I don't have a "back in the day" in the sense you're speaking of. I thoroughly enjoy the anime offered today just like I've done for the past 15+ years. You don't need to search for the 'wow,' just keep watching and it'll find you. |
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12skippy21
 Posts: 785 Location: York, England |
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I always wished I could be this passionate about something, can I hire you to update my list. Haven't touched it in five or so years and it is hopelessly out of date.
I have never really watched any old anime, I got into it around 2007 and think I have seen only 3-4 shows before Evangelion took place (really just the Gainax and Ghibli stuff). However I also never rate a series as a Masterpiece as to me it represents perfection, which does not exist in any format. The show that comes closest, really because I could not think of one disagreeable fault, was Baccano. So I rated it as Excellent because I reckoned that it would be too confusing or violent for others. I also think compared to other mediums anime gets off lightly in the nostalgia department as its coverage is far less (thinking about some reviews for TMNT I have seen). For me the 'better in the old days' corresponds a lot more strongly to the death of British comedy (seriously, American comedy over the last few years has been better than what Britian has produced, on what screwed up plane of reality are we looking at here). So to me, despite my lack of pre-90s knowledge, anime comes across the same as always, mostly rubbish with a few gooduns spread about. Also seriously, I will buy booze for whoever cleans up my list. 
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Akane the Catgirl
Posts: 1091 Location: LA, Baby! |
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^ Of course nothing's perfect. It'd be unrealistic to expect absolute perfection out of anything. That's the reason why nobody likes Mary Sues, after all.
To me my definition of a masterpiece is that the flaws that are there are so tiny and insignificant that calling them out would be akin to nitpicking. So far, I only have three animes on my list that I have rated as "masterpiece": Cowboy Bebop; Princess Tutu; and Puella Magi Madoka Magica. All of them succeeded in what they set out to do, had unique and wonderfully developed characters, and even got me to think through clever storytelling and well-written themes. |
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shamisen the great
 Posts: 658 Location: Oregon, USA |
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Looks like I have a little over 20 anime out of 606 that I've rated as Masterpiece. Only a few are before the nineties (Patlabor 2, Urusei Yatsura Beautiful Dreamer and some Miyazaki movies.) I became an anime fan in the mid nineties, but I still like a lot of modern anime. I consider Star Driver, Madoka Magica,Toradora, and Shiki to be relatively recent masterpieces. I haven't particularly felt like one period has had better anime than others. The popular genres and tropes certainly have changed, but I don't have the "things were better in my day" feeling yet.
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vanfanel
 Posts: 1242 |
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Man, I haven't rated anything in years, but I dug up my list to see what was there. I rated 163 "seen all" anime before getting bored, and of those I only rated four masterpieces:
Castle in the Sky (movie) From the Apennines to the Andes (TV) Lupin III: The Castle of Cagliostro (movie) Once Upon a Time (movie aka Windaria) So yeah, get off my lawn, ya little rugrats! *waves cane around vacantly* I had 17 Excellents, though, and those are more evenly spaced out. The earliest is Future Boy Conan, and the most recent is Evangelion 3.0. There are a lot of 90's shows in there (Escaflowne, Bebop, Aqua Age), as well as a few from the 80's (Macross, Votoms, Be Forever Yamato) and 00's (The Place Promised in Our Early Days, Cross Game). If I was still rating stuff, I'd definitely add "Giant Robo" and "Madoka Magica" (minus the Rebellion movie) as masterpieces. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
Posts: 6523 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Here's a weird thing. I started this thread yesterday with no expectation of adding to my list of 5 percenters. I knew I was going to see The Tale of Princess Kaguya today as part of the Melbourne International Film Festival but, not being a fan of Isao Takahata, I didn't expect much. It's magnificent - IMO easily the best thing he has ever done, including Grave of the Fireflies and Only Yesterday. I now have a 2013 masterpiece. I haven't experienced so much joy and wonder in anime since seeing Paprika the first as part of MIFF in 2007.
Here's another weird thing. I watched anime on TV as a kid in the sixties but it was seeing Paprika that awakened my passion in the art form. Now MIFF is a big event with 12 different venues that change from year and, for sure, it takes place around the same time every year but I saw both films on 9 Aug (2007 and 2014) at the same theatre (the exquisite Capitol Theatre, which was designed by Walter Burley Griffin). They must put something in the air conditioning there. |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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I tried to do this for my own anime list, but unfortunately it didn't work out so well because I pretty much only rank anime that I found to be Good at least, with a few exceptions (and most of them movies). I also hadn't ranked enough for many years to be adequately represented.
But if we're going to go with the years of Masterpiece rankings, that is easier since I only have three: Wolf's Rain OVA (2003), Gunslinger Girl (2003), and Madoka Magica (2011). So apparently 2003 was the pinacle year for me so far. I did also notice that I had a lot of high ranked anime from 2006. |
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vanfanel
Posts: 1242 |
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I've long been a huge Takahata fan, and "Princess Kaguya" is indeed glorious. Can't wait to see it again on Blu-Ray. If this ends up being his last film, it's a fine exit. At the same time, it hardly feels like a product of 2013. There are a few creators out there with long careers who seem to just represent themselves much more than whatever year they're working in. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
Posts: 6523 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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@ Willag. I'm still waiting. When you go bananas on something, as you hinted you may, you're always a great read.
@ Blood-. From what I've read from people I'm sure Eccentric Family would be right up my alley. I've also gotta get around to watching Azumangah Daioh. I've seen the first episode and I like it. Puella Magi Madoka Magica seems to be on just about everyone's list. And three of us mentioned Gunslinger Girl. |
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Akaname
 Posts: 141 Location: MA |
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I'll be the fourth to bring up Gunslinger Girl, at least the first season. Although I initially watched it when anime was new to me(when everything was "wow"), it most definitely has held it's masterpiece status through multiple viewings. The same with Azumanga Daioh and Haibane Renmei.
Although I don't really have a "back in the day" era, I was easily impressed by a lot of things when I first discovered anime. Not much holds up through multiple viewings. Those three will always be classics in my mind, because of their staying power. |
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