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RIGHT TURN ONLY!! - Love the One You're With


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rizuchan



Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 336
Location: Kansas

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:27 am Reply with quote
I think the important thing to remember with Shoujo manga and the sometimes "icky" or inappropriate relationships is that they're written for teenage (or younger) girls, who often idealize these kinds of relationships. I remember reading Papillon and being pleasantly surprised when Ageha got together with Kyu instead of Ryuusei, because it was "wrong", but exciting for my teenage self.

But I'll admit it becomes harder and harder to accept this as I get older (And wiser to healthy relationships). I couldn't stand the My Little Monster anime because all I could think about is how Haru is an abusive boyfriend waiting to happen. But then again, the consensus in these parts seem to be that even teenagers didn't enjoy the relationship choice in Bunny Drop.
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maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 202

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:52 pm Reply with quote
well, we know what kind of persons would enjoy the relationship in bunny drop.
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Ali07



Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 950
Location: Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:54 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
When you come right down to it, it looks an awful lot like she's simply afraid of what will happen if she allows herself to change.

That is what annoyed me most about the My Little Monster anime. It felt like, by the end of it, Mizutani's character didn't develop, while some of the others did.

Quote:
Not that it isn't a little frustrating to see the romance stutter along...but it is less of an annoyance than it often is.

While I know how annoying that is, and I've yet to read volume 3 myself, I'd have to say it'd be surprising if the romance wasn't stuttering at this point in a series. So much romance is played on the "will they, won't they" angle.

rizuchan wrote:
I couldn't stand the My Little Monster anime because all I could think about is how Haru is an abusive boyfriend waiting to happen.

Out of interest, what was it that lead to this interpretation of the character?

And, I kind of wish people would stop mentioning Bunny Drop...Laughing
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Utsuro no Hako



Joined: 18 May 2012
Posts: 368

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:56 am Reply with quote
Ali07 wrote:

Out of interest, what was it that lead to this interpretation of the character?


The part where he grabs Mizutani, drags her into an alley and threatens to rape her if she screams.
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Graceful Nanami



Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Posts: 214
Location: Virginia, USA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:27 am Reply with quote
Romance of an Ancient Dreaming City gives me a Red River vibe... am I on the right track, Rebecca? Er, if you've read Red River, of course. I'll probably check this out, though!
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Princess_Irene



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 854
Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:05 am Reply with quote
Hmm, I hadn't thought about Romance of an Ancient Dreaming City in terms of Red River, but there is a bit of a similar vibe. Olga's not as strong as Yuri and it's far more fantasy than historical fiction, but the sort of unreal feeling is definitely the same.

@rizuchan

I see Haru as being more on the Autism spectrum than potentially abusive, or at least suffering from a severely bad childhood, which could lead to him becoming an abuser...but I feel like it's more that he has never learned how to interact with people properly. I find him much less of a warning sign than Kyu, who ostensibly has training in psychology and knows about power imbalances in relationships.

You're right that shoujo (and many YA romances) play on the "forbidden" angle with romance. For me, the breaking point is when that leads to an unequal relationship (with a teacher or parent), but everyone's got a different line that they won't cross, even in fiction. (I didn't even like student/teacher romances as a teenager, possibly because my mother is a teacher.)

Also, I agree with Ali07 - let's put Bunny Drop to rest for a while.
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rizuchan



Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 336
Location: Kansas

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:51 am Reply with quote
Haha sorry about bringing up The-Shoujo-Romance-Which-Must-Not-Be-Named, I really wasn't trying to open that can of worms again, honest!

ali07 wrote:

rizuchan wrote:
I couldn't stand the My Little Monster anime because all I could think about is how Haru is an abusive boyfriend waiting to happen.


Out of interest, what was it that lead to this interpretation of the character?


Utsuro no Hako wrote:
The part where he grabs Mizutani, drags her into an alley and threatens to rape her if she screams.

This was one of the serious breaking points for me, but also just his explosive personality in general. The show acts like Mizutani is the one person he would never hurt, but the realist in me says it's only a matter of time before he'd hurt her too. Never on purpose, but that guy needs some serious anger management.

Which is really too bad, because I loved Mizutani as a shoujo heroine.
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Ali07



Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 950
Location: Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:09 am Reply with quote
Ah yes, I see. Personally, I never "bought into" that scene. I'm with Princess_Irene on Haru, the character is set up as one that is socially awkward...maybe not really in the Autism spectrum for me. Being socially awkward is the starting point for the character.

If Haru were real, I too think that the possibility of him being an abusive partner were likely. Personally, I prefer to compartmentalize what I look at as entertainment and how things would actually play out in reality. Merely because I think that, if I didn't, I'd probably ruin many stories from many different genres and entertainment mediums for myself. Laughing

I also never felt like Mizutani was the only person he would never hurt, as I always found that he'd never hurt his friends, in general. At least, when they did depict violence, they did shine the light of "standing up to bullies", rather than that he was always dealing with his troubles with violence.

I buy into the social awkwardness, not only through his interactions with others, but how he also decided to "deal" with his brother appearing. He runs away from his problems. Firstly by running away from home, and then later running away when his brother comes to get him. If he had tried to physically intimidate his brother in some way, then I probably would think differently of the character.
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invalidname



Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 615
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:25 am Reply with quote
Quote:
If you've never read one, it's a totally different experience than reading a manga romance, but boy are they a lot of fun.

So, about manga romances, actually… In anime, there's a clear difference in the style of shoujo/josei romance stories versus shounen/seinen romance stories. The latter are often based on visual novels: Clannad, ef, Rumbling Hearts, that kind of thing. In manga, while I've read a fair amount of shoujo and josei romance (Kare Kano, Lovely Complex, Sand Chronicles), I don't think I've ever seen a romance manga in English that I would classify as shounen or seinen. Do these exist? Do they just not get licensed in the West because men don't read romance (but somehow they do buy DVDs)? Help me understand this.
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Utsuro no Hako



Joined: 18 May 2012
Posts: 368

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:46 am Reply with quote
invalidname wrote:
I don't think I've ever seen a romance manga in English that I would classify as shounen or seinen. Do these exist? Do they just not get licensed in the West because men don't read romance (but somehow they do buy DVDs)? Help me understand this.


Toradora and the upcoming Evergreen, both by Yuyuko Takemiya, are shonen, as are Inu x Boku SS and Sankarea, along with tons of stuff on Crunchyroll like A Town Where You Live, Mysterious Girlfriend X, Fuuka, Wagatsuma-san, etc.. And that's not even getting into harem series -- Haganai, Nisekoi, Monster Musume, Love Hina, etc., etc.
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invalidname



Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 615
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:53 am Reply with quote
Utsuro no Hako wrote:
Toradora and the upcoming Evergreen, both by Yuyuko Takemiya, are shonen, as are Inu x Boku SS and Sankarea, along with tons of stuff on Crunchyroll like A Town Where You Live, Mysterious Girlfriend X, Fuuka, Wagatsuma-san, etc.. And that's not even getting into harem series -- Haganai, Nisekoi, Monster Musume, Love Hina, etc., etc.

Oh, how could I forget Toradora, that's a great example. I'll check some of the others out (I'm a couple chapters into Wagatsuma-san, but I didn't realize it would fit in the romance genre). Thanks.
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katscradle



Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Posts: 155

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:07 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Hoshino's story is really fascinating, the Digital Manga Guild's translation very smooth, and the artwork beautiful. Dark fantasy fans shouldn't miss this.

Just wanted to say I appreciate the review. Especially noting how the quality of the eBook is. I've had to pretty much try out most DMG titles I was interested in without the guidance of any kind of reviews. Normally I wouldn't mind taking a chance but, unfortunately I've found quality issues more often than not with titles under DMG. Romance Of An Ancient Dreaming City was one I was interested in. However, by the review I now know it's not for me. (I try to avoid titles with sexual assault. Which is a difficult task because it's so darn popular apparently. Sad )



invalidname wrote:

So, about manga romances, actually… In anime, there's a clear difference in the style of shoujo/josei romance stories versus shounen/seinen romance stories. The latter are often based on visual novels: Clannad, ef, Rumbling Hearts, that kind of thing. In manga, while I've read a fair amount of shoujo and josei romance (Kare Kano, Lovely Complex, Sand Chronicles), I don't think I've ever seen a romance manga in English that I would classify as shounen or seinen. Do these exist? Do they just not get licensed in the West because men don't read romance (but somehow they do buy DVDs)? Help me understand this.


I'm going to date myself with examples but, romance manga aimed at boys and men actually has a long history. (Though I suppose some of the reaction to the My Love Story!! and crossover being previewed in Viz's Shonen Jump does bring up questions of how North American audiences feel about romance in general today.) The visual novel connection to titles I think has become more common but, there are a lot of romantic comedies from the past which have heavily influenced younger artists and still stand as some of the best. The work of Rumiko Takahashi (Maison Ikkoku is one of the best seinen romances ever and sadly OOP), Masakazu Katsura (I"s, this was censored some by Viz), and Kimagure Orange Road by Izumi Matsumoto (anime OOP but, Digital Manga is releasing the manga digitally) are a few. So shounen and seinen romance manga have been available for a long time in North America.
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Agent355



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 2188
Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready...

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:59 pm Reply with quote
Isn't Ah, My Goddess! one of Dark Horse's top selling graphic novels? It's a classic shonen romance.

What was the reaction to My Love Story!!, katscradle? I thought the preview was really cute, and I haven't noticed any particular reaction to it, positive or negative.

My Little Monster-Haru gave me an impression of being both potentially autistic and abusive in the anime, but his overall story was so intriguing--what was his messed up young childhood like?--that I really wanted to continue the story regardless of his inappropriateness as a romantic interest. I'm waiting for the manga to reach the point the anime ended (anyone know around what volume that happens?) Unless I see info that the early volumes of the manga contain details the anime left out.
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vashfanatic



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 3373
Location: Back stateside

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:15 pm Reply with quote
My understand from reading it in fan translation over a year ago is that Romance of an Ancient Dreaming City went on hiatus, and that's why there's only one volume out right now. Does anyone know if it's started again in Japan?
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nargun



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:41 pm Reply with quote
Agent355 wrote:
Isn't Ah, My Goddess! one of Dark Horse's top selling graphic novels? It's a classic shonen romance.


Runs in Afternoon, see. Seinen.

[reflected in content, too: if the demographics consumed the same works there'd be no distinctions made, after all. But analysing the content differences between seinen and shounen so that they can be set out neatly is kind of a pain.]

EDIT: come to that, Nazo no Kanojo X does too.
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