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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 6141
Location: Penguinopolis

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:58 pm Reply with quote
"In Japan, this was not a children's show." BZZZ. WRONG. Sailor Moon was absolutely a children's show. It's just that the Japanese trust their children not to be complete sociopaths. Well, used to.

Excuses, excuses. If the translation was rough, they should have hired a bilingual translator. If you have to change the story so much, you shouldn't have taken on the project to begin with.

And the voice acting, what horrible work that was. Horrendous voice acting, even for the time. And Hawkes had a problem with the word "lady"? You should have told her to do the job or walk.

Really, the VA who played "Molly" made people cry? I cried, too, having to hear that terrible accent she put on. Canadian inflections were the least of the damn problem.

I love this guy comparing himself to James Cagney. That's like when Carl Macek was on and referred to himself as "a storyteller".

You'd think this guy produced the Cowboy Bebop dub the way he talks up the quality. You don't hear the Ronin Warriors folks bragging like this, and they had a much better English dub than SM's. Seriously, Maya the Bee and The Noozles had better voice acting. And were probably more accurate.

Also... "Pokeyman". Rolling Eyes
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mrakai



Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:28 pm Reply with quote
The reason the "Sailor Says" Segments were because the american channels it aired on have a FCC requirement for a certain amount of "Educational" television.

So, much like the GI Joe "Knowing is half the battle" they stuck these on the end to qualify a certain % of the show as educational.
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ChibiGoku



Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:30 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
"In Japan, this was not a children's show." BZZZ. WRONG. Sailor Moon was absolutely a children's show. It's just that the Japanese trust their children not to be complete sociopaths. Well, used to.


I haven't gotten around to listening to the podcast, but he really said this wasn't a children's show?

...Well then. Rolling Eyes
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invalidname



Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 614
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:49 pm Reply with quote
Nice guy, good episode. Zac's question at the end about modern-day anime voices sounding all alike is interesting in context, because Roland's experience is from a time when anime wasn't its own little self-contained thing, like it is today with Greg Ayres and Brittney Karbowski as the Voices Of Everything, and instead you'd bring in people with different backgrounds in TV/radio/theatre/music/advertising and little to no awareness of anime. Maybe that's why the old dub of Sailor Moon was accessible to a broader range of the audience of the time than what we see from what we see from seemingly "mainstream" anime today.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 6141
Location: Penguinopolis

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:02 pm Reply with quote
invalidname wrote:
Nice guy, good episode. Zac's question at the end about modern-day anime voices sounding all alike is interesting in context, because Roland's experience is from a time when anime wasn't its own little self-contained thing, like it is today with Greg Ayres and Brittney Karbowski as the Voices Of Everything, and instead you'd bring in people with different backgrounds in TV/radio/theatre/music/advertising and little to no awareness of anime. Maybe that's why the old dub of Sailor Moon was accessible to a broader range of the audience of the time than what we see from what we see from seemingly "mainstream" anime today.


Yeah, too bad a lot of the people they used to bring in were horrible, judging by SM and other early dubs.

I'd rather dubs "sound alike" then have terrible voice acting the likes of which shake the earth in their magnitude of horribleness.

But I guess the trade off is not getting the rare truly amazing dub you used to get.
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CCtheImmortal



Joined: 14 Aug 2014
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:05 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
"In Japan, this was not a children's show." BZZZ. WRONG. Sailor Moon was absolutely a children's show. It's just that the Japanese trust their children not to be complete sociopaths. Well, used to.


If they trusted their children so much the anime wouldn't have aired at prime-time, that time is reserved for teenagers and young adult shows. This is what he was talking about, it was going from a prime-time anime show that was targeted to at least a TV-14 crowd to an anime targeted to a TV-Y7 crowd.

All depends on how you define children, but young adults and teenagers I don't really considered children, they are teens. Hence the show went from a more teen-oriented feel to a more kid-oriented show.
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TokyoGetter



Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 413
Location: CA. You can tell by the low moral standards.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:06 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
"In Japan, this was not a children's show." BZZZ. WRONG.

Man you just SCREAM "joie de vivre." I just want to follow you around all day and bathe in the good vibes you must pump out 24/7.

Good episode. I enjoyed the stories and he seemed like a good interview.
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Divineking



Joined: 03 Jul 2010
Posts: 1085

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:22 pm Reply with quote
CCtheImmortal wrote:
penguintruth wrote:
"In Japan, this was not a children's show." BZZZ. WRONG. Sailor Moon was absolutely a children's show. It's just that the Japanese trust their children not to be complete sociopaths. Well, used to.


If they trusted their children so much the anime wouldn't have aired at prime-time, that time is reserved for teenagers and young adult shows. This is what he was talking about, it was going from a prime-time anime show that was targeted to at least a TV-14 crowd to an anime targeted to a TV-Y7 crowd.

All depends on how you define children, but young adults and teenagers I don't really considered children, they are teens. Hence the show went from a more teen-oriented feel to a more kid-oriented show.


I'm just gonna leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/​watch?​v=​5o_EdztQsJw&​list=​UUMJmzj3TJ9APP-​Sq9V-​E53Q

Yeeeeaaaahhh...I don't really think there should be any argument what age group it was targeted at in Japan... Rolling Eyes
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CCtheImmortal



Joined: 14 Aug 2014
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:12 pm Reply with quote
Oi...

Let's run through what he said....

"Now keep in mind, in Japan, this was not a children's show, this is primetime, there was a lot more, nudity and violence, but they had to tone the whole thing down, for the conservative North American market."

Now, what I'm talking about is his opinion on the matter, primetime anime was specifically for teenagers and younger adults, shows were put on their because they targeted and appealed to both teenagers and younger adults, we're talking about a show that was taken over from Japan and tone down to fit a more children oriented crowd. You could throw out those commercials to prove a point, but I could make a well enough point by stating that that very same merchandise is being marketed to an older crowd and is still selling. Heck, Sailor Moon just had a clothing line advertised to younger woman.

I could even bring up the point that, even though the US is a lot more lax than it used to be in the 90's, having to tone the series down to a TV-Y7 format, the Sailor Moon series as a whole is still being listed under a TV-14 rating and sold under that rating completely uncut.

It's easy to market a series off to kids, you could throw in DBZ that was included in that very ad, that uncut had basically a script of "fudge", "Shit" and more blood than a Freddy Krueger movie, and market it to kids. That's much easier to do in the US when you tone things down, but even that holds a TV-14 rating over here.

It's not really an argument, I mean, this argument is coming from a time where the US is much more lax, but yet the series is still being marketed to younger woman and teenagers, both the original and Crystal. I wonder why? Razz
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Divineking



Joined: 03 Jul 2010
Posts: 1085

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:52 pm Reply with quote
The fact that it aired on primetime means very little in regards to who the actual target audience of the show was. Like 90% of anything made by Toei it was designed to sell toys to 8 year olds. Yes being on primetime meant that more than just little kids were watching it but that doesn't negate the fact that it was a children's show. By your logic, stuff that aired in primetime in the 90's in the US wasn't intended for kids either and while those shows have a lot more risque humor than most care to remember, people generally aren't in denial as to who the actual market for the show is. Viz's rating for the uncut release in no way negates that. As Penguintruth pointed out above, Japan has different standards than we do in terms of what's considered acceptable in children's shows. Yes the show had to be toned down to meet American TV standards but as far as the target age range goes it was generally the same for both countries.

As for Crystal and it's current marketing that's a whole other thing entirely. Toei's banking on nostalgia for it given they already have Precure as their big magical girl series for kids, and so their trying to target the people who grew up with the series as opposed to a newer audience. It's also why the show is currently online only there and while it has the laughably bad budget it currently does.
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CCtheImmortal



Joined: 14 Aug 2014
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:27 pm Reply with quote
You can throw around the idea about an 'actual' target, but you don't put a show that you want to target to little kids on a primetime slot. That would be like trying to put My Little Pony in the current incarnation of Toonami matched up with shows that are generally in the TV-14 range, what would be the logic behind doing that exactly? And if you want it to appeal to children you don't put it on during the primetime, you put it on during the daytime slot.

I'll give you example, Toonami in the US appealed to a younger demographic in the 90's to mid-2000's, they were targeting a TV-Y7 audience, that's who you want to target if you want your show to get out there and start selling merchandise, putting a show on primetime isn't hitting the 'actual' audience, so why is it on primetime then? If you want a show to succeed in a certain timeslot, you have them put into that timeslot, you want a Y7 audience? You put it on daytime television. You want a TV-14 audience? You go for primetime. You want shows that target to adults, then you put them on at night. In this example of Toonami, it was easy to see Toonami was their marketing tool, it was on during the daytime because that was the demographic they wanted to target, kids, this is why when the ratings came out they focused on that demographic, the Toonami in it's current incarnation is targeting to an adult demographic. Notice the difference here?

Your argument is basically this "You want to sell toys to little girls, put it on at primetime, a slot that is reserved for more teenage and young adult viewers, rather than the more logical idea of putting it on during the daytime, so that they could market it to a much more suited demographic." Does that make sense at all? Where is the logic in taking a show that is targeted to one demographic and trying to sell it off to another completely different demographic?

The argument about the US in the 90's is an interesting one, but won't cut it in this case. You could definitely state that things were much more risque in cartoons during primetime, but channels like CN and Nick did not appeal to another demographic outside of that during those times, they do now though, with such things like Adult Swim, Toonami, Nick@Nite, but that wasn't the case during the 90's. In this case, anime aired late at night was done for two reasons, one was to market this anime to teenagers and younger adults, nowadays it used to heavily promote merchandise and releases, but it's used for the same reasons, to target a teenage and young adult demographic. CN and Nick do this, though Nick it's more using TeenNick as a means to put there teen-oriented shows their while still being able to hit their target demographic, CN does this with Adult Swim and Toonami now, and as mentioned Nick@Nite covers the adult demographic. In this case though, primetime anime is used to target specifically to teenagers and younger adults, they were used to promote those series.

Again the question comes up, why try to appeal a series for a younger demographic to a television block that was used as a means to attract teenagers and younger adults? That makes no sense at all and pretty much voids the argument you're trying to push here. And you could hardly use CN as an example anyway, since it was already pretty much shown that could hardly ever step outside of a Y7 demographic (nowadays it can sort of slide by TV-PG), same thing with Nick, sure there have been occasions of skirting the lines, but even then majority of what they air and aired was for a kids. Adult Swim and Toonami (now) are used as a means to appeal to the adults, this is why the argument from you doesn't work.

The fact that it aired on primetime means a lot more than the idea of it's "actual" demographic, while you tried to prove using those advertisements... doesn't really work here, there is a reason why things are separated by demographic, there is a reason why there are different demographics and a reason why timeslots are used to target to specific demographics. If this series was targeted to "8-year old girls" it wouldn't be in a primetime slot, it wouldn't make any sense.

As for Viz's rating of the series, it's not a means to negate it, it's just the simple fact of how the series is rated in the US, which again, means a lot, rating a series as TV-14 is different than a series rated to a TV-Y7 crowd, any anime aired on Toonami in the 90's is proof of that fact, and any anime that is now rated under TV-14 is an example of that fact.
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Ojamajo LimePie



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 582

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:37 pm Reply with quote
What's so "Canadian" about those pronunciations? That's how we pronounce those words here in Washington State.

And, yes, Sailor Moon is a children's show. Japan TV programming isn't the same as American. Early prime time shows like Sailor Moon target kids 7-14, with families as a periphery demographic.
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Divineking



Joined: 03 Jul 2010
Posts: 1085

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:55 pm Reply with quote
@CCtheImmortal

Your logic is flawed. TV-Y7 shows have been in primetime for ages. In the 90's and early 00's pretty much everything that aired during primetime hours on Cartoon Network was rated TV-Y7. Obviously that's no longer the case these days but times have changed as Japan has been gradually scaling down what's considered acceptable in children's entertainment while the US has been stretching it a bit more. Regardless primetime =/= older audience, especially since different networks are wired to different demographics in general. Primetime simply refers to the time when people are most likely to be watching television, that's all.

Sailor Moon wasn't intended for an older demographic anymore than Precure is despite that having a pretty heavy otaku following in Japan. The fact that it happened to get one was just a lucky convenience if anything since it makes it easier for Toei to sell tons of merchandise.
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merr



Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 161

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:56 pm Reply with quote
CCtheImmortal wrote:
You can throw around the idea about an 'actual' target, but you don't put a show that you want to target to little kids on a primetime slot. That would be like trying to put My Little Pony in the current incarnation of Toonami matched up with shows that are generally in the TV-14 range, what would be the logic behind doing that exactly? And if you want it to appeal to children you don't put it on during the primetime, you put it on during the daytime slot.

Japan doesn't always treat prime time the same way networks do in America. It's not unheard of for kids shows to air in the evening. Just look at Inazuma Eleven.

And yes, Sailor Moon was a kids show in Japan. There has never been any question about that. It's intended demographic was children and pre-teen girls. The manga ran in a magazine targeted solely at that audience, the anime was a giant toy commercial, and almost every piece of merchandise created during its initial run was aimed at people under the age of 15. The fact that it ran in prime time doesn't negate that or magically transform the series into one meant only for older teens and adults.
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Kosaka
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Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:36 pm Reply with quote
Interesting that Mary Long and Terri Hawkes directed some episodes; I wonder which ones.

According to
Sailor Moon FAQ (part 4/5):
http://www.rahul.net/​arromdee/​sm.​faq.​4

------------------------------------
Serena/Sailor Moon:
Tracey Moore (eps. 1-11, 13, 21, 41)
Terri Hawkes (all others)
------------------------------------

For ep. 41, (Japanese ep. 47), I think Serena/Sailor Moon and Darien/Tuxedo Mask were redubbed.

The FAQ isn't guaranteed to be 100% accurate, but I think it's most likely that Tracey Moore directed around 14 episodes, and Roland Parliament directed around 51 episodes and part of another, and not 65 episodes. A 65 episode block was dubbed in 1995, and Roland Parliament replaced Tracey Moore as director, and Tracey Moore played Sailor Moon in the episodes she directed, so I doubt he directed all 65 episodes. Episodes 1-65 were dubbed in English in 1995, so he might not remember first-hand if he directed 52 or 65.
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