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Shadowrun20XX wrote:

@ MrAdventure : Im an animator, I just don't go with the status quo of calling everything "Anime".

In what MrAdventure quoted you did not say that RWBY is not "anime." You said that it is not animation.

Touma wrote:

Shadowrun20XX wrote:

@ MrAdventure : Im an animator, I just don't go with the status quo of calling everything "Anime".

In what MrAdventure quoted you did not say that RWBY is not "anime." You said that it is not animation.

Indeed. And while you're credentials are very impressive throwing a good half of your industry compatriots under the bus doesn't strike me as boding well for you in the long term.

This whole thread is funny because it shows just how utterly demonized the word "cartoon" is in the US. Like anyone over the age of 6 that watches a cartoon has something horribly wrong with them, so they desperately try to label their cartoons anime to feel better about what they're watching.

They're all cartoons in the end, and that's nothing to be ashamed of.

Anime, as used in the English language, is a loanword meaning Japanese animation. There may be general stylistic tendencies, but it doesn't have definitive marks. It can evolve. Anime 50 years from now may look very different. Some current anime doesn't even look like anything else out there. That doesn't mean it isn't anime.

That, I think, is where my biggest complaint is; making something non-Japanese 'anime' means you are mimicking stylistic choices and calling it the same. Calling it anime confines Japanese animation to what you believe anime should look like, rather than just acknowledging what inspired you. Same thing with manga. I've seen manga that looks like an American superhero comic. That doesn't strip away its manga status. A person wouldn't argue that a DC/Marvel-produced comic is manga because it looks like something in Japan. Why limit what countries produce to these arbitrary standards?

The problem is also rooted in this perception of what cartoons/comics are, as noted above. Why do people want to escape those labels? Why can't something be an anime-inspired cartoon? Why does it have to be anime? Where is this mystic anime line drawn? If anything can be argued as anime or manga, what's the point in even calling it that?

I wish RWBY the best, even if I don't care for it. I doubt it will create waves or anything. But whatever; it's an American cartoon being called anime because everything over there--from Spongebob to The Simpsons--is anime. That's why its definition as a loanword differs from its original meaning.

Anime is simply animation from Japan. You can imitate it's style, but if it doesn't come from Japan it is not anime.

I have no problem watching anime from Japan, or animation from the U.S., France, or South Korea.

Then maybe it's time for some definite and exact rules, like Swiss watches. You can't be a Japanese timepiece company and design and build your watch in Japan and call it Swiss Made. I don't care even how pretentious or stupid that sounds, it prevents people labeling stuff however they please.

walw6pK4Alo wrote:

Then maybe it's time for some definite and exact rules, like Swiss watches. You can't be a Japanese timepiece company and design and build your watch in Japan and call it Swiss Made. I don't care even how pretentious or stupid that sounds, it prevents people labeling stuff however they please.

Exactly. There's no problem with informative label like that, as long as there's no loaded negative in the term. Which seems to be 'cartoon's biggest problem. People see it as a negative. Which is dumb. But then some folks see 'anime' as a dirty word too.

In short, Anime = Animation made for a Japanese audience first, international second.

Cartoon = Animation, often with a humorous slant. No real international boundary.

English animation doesn't really have a nice, neat, and short 'anime' equivalent that isn't clunky (Animated Movie/Animated Series). Maybe we need one?

Mr Adventure wrote:

English animation doesn't really have a nice, neat, and short 'anime' equivalent that isn't clunky (Animated Movie/Animated Series). Maybe we need one?

The most likely explanation is because English animation is not a big enough market for people to bother making one. Like it or not, anime is a subculture. A pretty big one in a lot of countries. Western cartoons didn't really create a subculture like anime does. There's no places like Akihabara dedicated towards cartoons, nor is there an equivalent to other otaku aspects like the doujinshi market, or premium figure market, or anything like that. Japan produces more shows in one season than all other countries do in a year after all. It's big enough to breed a subculture out of it, but it's hard to do that for our stuff.

Lavnovice9 wrote:

Western cartoons didn't really create a subculture like anime does. There's no places like Akihabara dedicated towards cartoons, nor is there an equivalent to other otaku aspects like the doujinshi market, or premium figure market, or anything like that.

Uh? Bronies?

Though I suppose that's a really unique case.

I have bad news for most of you people here. Google search: RWBY Japan.

Quote:

American anime

http://www.tubefilter.com/2014/08/18/rooster-teeth-rwby-japan/

That American Anime term is going to stick, guys. I hope you're prepared for it. I have been, for a long time. Cool

FYI, I have absolutely nothing to do with this "change". I'm just a mere powerless Internet user, like many of you. I just happen to be ahead of the curve on this topic.

Quote:

The Rooster Teeth-produced anime about four schoolgirls who happen to be monster slayers will be redubbed in Japanese to become the first American anime export.

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/articles/24423/20140820/rwby-japanese-dub-release-coming-rooster-teeth-date-anime-manga-volume-2.htm

Quote:

Rooster Teeth’s ‘RWBY’ Marks First US-Based Anime Going To Japan

http://www.thevideoink.com/news/rooster-teeths-rwby-marks-first-us-based-anime-going-japan/

Quote:

A YouTube anime has risen above the rest

http://www.diamondbackonline.com/blogs/article_123805f2-c716-11e3-bd94-0017a43b2370.html

Unlike OEL manga, this will be a harder force for the anime community to stop. I remember those days, where people's reactions to OEL manga was "false advertising" and the like. Since then, OEL manga is practically dead, especially when Tokyopop itself is dead.

This time, you have an animation; and it has a strong fan base. The market forces will keep this one going, especially as RoosterTeeth markets it as anime and in the similar fashion as Japanese studios and marketing approach their product. This is namely through merchandising. Yet if only, they'd allow RWBY dakimakuras.

However, if you guys want some hope, it would be this. The "American anime" term could die - IF - there is no follow up to RWBY. After all, just like the Simpsons, DBZ, or Bleach, you cannot perpetuate a market by milking the same cow over and over. Popularity itself has its way of drawing out, before people get bored in search of something else.

You're acting like RWBY was the first ever thing to ever ape the general post-Tezuka Japanese animation style. What about Avatar, Boondocks, Totally Spies, Code Lyoko, Teen Titans, Kappa Mikey, Megas XLR? This whole market was huge about a decade ago and has more or less faded out. It looks like the main difference here, despite being worse than all of those and made on a fraction of the budget, is that they desperately want the anime label and that RoosterTeeth already had a built-in YouTube audience.

Hell, I'll even quote Wikipedia for Kappa Mikey:

Quote:

Kappa Mikey was marketed as "the first anime to be produced entirely in the United States", according to press releases from MTV, Nicktoons Network, and various other sources, as the term anime in English is generally reserved for animation originally produced for the Japanese market.

So RWBY can't even claim that dubious title. Not to mention several of the above series have made it to Japanese TV, like the Boondocks, so it can't be the first of that either. So if we're going to call anything an American anime, I'll start with the Boondocks. What makes RWBY so entirely different from things that have come before that it alone deserves to be treated as something so special and new? Some kind of weird loyalty to Monty Oum?

Anyway, seeing as you're alone on this crusade, I feel like I'm arguing with special ed.

This is the silliest topic I've seen in a long time. I'm just going to put that out there.

Just to confirm: Totally Spies aired in Japan. So RWBY can't be the first western anime to be marketed in Japan. Someone should tell Rooster Teeth that so they can stop lying on their press-releases.

Personally I prefer the German theme. Fit's the show's 70s Disco theme a lot more. There was actually a short-lived Totally Spies band in Germany, believe it or not. Just a funny tidbit.

Mr Adventure wrote:

Uh? Bronies?

Though I suppose that's a really unique case.

Bronies obsess over one show. It'll eventually end, and while I'm sure some will still cling to it, it's a fad ultimately. I'm not sure if fads can be considered genuine subcultures. If nothing else it's a very restrictive one.

I can't really think of how a show like Outbreak Company or Oreimo would work for cartoons. You could do it for general geekdom, like Welcome to Eltingville did, but not cartoons exclusively. Cartoons are generally left out of geek-focused parodies, and they instead focus on comic books, role-playing games, and sci-fi movies and shows. I guess the "whole cartoons are for kids" stigma keeps them out of the general consciousness.

KyuuA4 wrote:

Unlike OEL manga, this will be a harder force for the anime community to stop.

The fact you think there's this major conspiracy by anime fandom to keep RWBY down like some rebel resistance is absurd. I really hope you're being fictitious with all this.

walw6pK4Alo wrote:

Anyway, seeing as you're alone on this crusade...

I quoted just this bit because that's the part that really confuses me about all this, the fact that he really does seem to be treating this as some sort of "crusade" (and has been for a while, it seems, going by his post history).

KyuuA4, why does it matter so much to you that the definition of anime change? Let's assume that your definition does at some point become "the" definition, what difference will it ultimately make, other than allowing American-made shows to be counted?

I just...don't really see the need to change the meaning of this word. You said earlier in the thread that it's "too rigid", but some definitions just are rigid, and that's okay.

(And more on the actual topic of the thread, I do really enjoy RWBY, and look forward to seeing who they pick to voice the characters. Very Happy

)

Jacquipuff,

Some people become attached to some cause and get emotionally invested in it. For some people, once that happens, rationality goes out the window and they don't even realize it.

RWBY isn't anime. Japan may call it anime, but that's how *the Japanese* use the word, not how we use it. Japanese people also use "otaku" differently than we do, even though we coined the word from them. In fact, the Japanese use otaku more broadly than we do, just as they use the word "anime" more broadly than we do.

Lavnovice9 wrote:

Mr Adventure wrote:

English animation doesn't really have a nice, neat, and short 'anime' equivalent that isn't clunky (Animated Movie/Animated Series). Maybe we need one?

The most likely explanation is because English animation is not a big enough market for people to bother making one. Like it or not, anime is a subculture. A pretty big one in a lot of countries. Western cartoons didn't really create a subculture like anime does. There's no places like Akihabara dedicated towards cartoons, nor is there an equivalent to other otaku aspects like the doujinshi market, or premium figure market, or anything like that. Japan produces more shows in one season than all other countries do in a year after all. It's big enough to breed a subculture out of it, but it's hard to do that for our stuff.

The US animation industry makes up 40%+ of the global market, while only producing about 20 or so animations per year. It's wrong to claim that the anime industry is anything close to more profitable. Oh and last time I checked, the Simpsons movie did better in France than any anime will ever dream of doing. That's France of all places. No anime is as popular as Simpsons in France, not even DBZ. Even if South Korea, American toons are more popular. Even in Japan, the American animation market is decent, contrary to what that Stuart guy says.

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