Forum - View topicANN Book Club -- Puella Magi Madoka Magica.
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RadarJay
 Posts: 51 |
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Hmmm... that ain't half a bad idea
 Imma newbie to the pretty guardian myself, and have been wanting to investigate the new dub and Crystal for some time now. I'd happily take part in something like that.
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thebeats42
Posts: 43 Location: Manila, Philippines |
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Whew. Just found this book club when akane mentioned this on another thread.
Since I don't know how this works I'll just start with answering last week's questions :3 *Do you think that the fact that Madoka falls into the witches labyrinth is... telling, or significant to what she's feeling right now? Why or why not? Yes, When she was in the labyrinth she kept on thinking that she deserves it. Well right from the start of the episode she has been blaming herself for the death of Mami so she easily succumbed to the witch's negativity. *Why do you think Sayaka is *really* scared at this point, and what drives her to accept Madoka's help when she was about to go hunting? I personally think that it's just a wee bit more complex then a simple life/ death thing. I dont think she's that scared of what could happen to her, after all she did say she doesnt regret her decision and was ready to accept her fate as a magical girl. but I think she was already emotionally unstable at that point which is why she asked for madoka to go with her. having a friend go with her will ensure that she will keep her goal in her sight(protecting the people from the witches) *What do you think are some of Sayaka's perspective changes after she meets Kyoko? before she became a magical girl she was idolizing Mami's way of doing things and the reason why she was doing it "For the sake of the people to not be in danger because of the witches" after she died Sayaka tried to copy her and be the so called hope for the people. after she settled with that kind of thinking someone comes with a different way of doing things that are making her more confused than ever. her first goal was to eliminate witches and now she wants to fight a magical girl in the same side which is straying far from her original motive. *At this point, Kyoko and Sayaka seem just as stubbornly intent about changing each others mind frames. This will be super broad, but give any sort of ideas you guys have on their relationship as foils at this point. I get why Kyoko do things selfishly from her flashback and seeing that sayaka is going the same path as her she just cant stand by and watch the events unfold, she wanted sayaka to have no regrets. but sayaka is now close minded and doesnt listen to their advice anymore, she wants to do things selflessly. at this point it seems that she is already broken. having the friend she saved and the person she like so much she abandoned her humanity for, end up together she thinks that everything she's doing was for those around her and nothing she did was for herself which fired up her motivation to act selflessly. *Hmmm... Madoka's mom said that sometimes the best thing that you can do is make a good mistake. Madoka certainly does this by throwing Sayaka's gem off the bridge. Now, at this moment, why do you think this little event would be so significant to certain girls in particular? they entered the contract not knowing that their souls will be separated from their bodies(well, they certainly did not ask). I think this will greatly affect her choice whether to become a magical girl or not. and right now I think the probability of her still wanting to be a magical girl is now 25% |
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RadarJay
Posts: 51 |
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Welcome to the party, fresh beautiful breeze
so... what's the consensus with y'all? Should I try to continue resuscitating this thing?
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Akane the Catgirl
Posts: 1091 Location: LA, Baby! |
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Absolutely! We've got at least two other members here. Besides, there's more I want to talk about in regards to Madoka.
Have you noticed the egg motif? I discussed this in the main series thread, but eggs tend to pop up pretty frequently. For example... * The teacher's rant on eggs in the first episode *Kyubey having an egg symbol on his back *The shape of Soul Gems and Grief Seeds *spoiler[Incubator] That's all I could think of right now. Anyone else? Eggs, eggs, eggs... |
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RadarJay
Posts: 51 |
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Hmmmmmmm..... "If it cannot break out of its shell, the chick will die without ever being born"... lolol I kid I kid
But really, I agree that it's a general image motif and symbol, but I'm not quite sure how far you can take that rant and it's relation to Kyubeys motifs. "And remember, don't you associate yourself with guys that complain about how well their eggs are cooked..." I mean, I doubt Kyubey would care about how the girls eggs are fried, so to speak, just as long as he gets em'.And if you wanna see it as a joke it's just kinda... mean spirited. Besides, throughout the show, there was never really this duality or comparison between sex and relationships and the magical girl contracts. If there WAS, the idea would be expanded on 10 fold and there would be an entire character devoted to the idea, knowing Boochi (and no, Sayaka doesn't count). |
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thebeats42
Posts: 43 Location: Manila, Philippines |
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I really didn't pay any attention regarding that. I was a little bored for almost half of the series and weren't really focusing on it. I'm gonna be on the look out for "eggs" when I re-watch this.
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lifepawn
Posts: 2 |
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For the eggs, spoiler[the teacher and male student both agree that it doesn't matter if the eggs are sunny side up or down. Using the eggs as a metaphor for the soul gems, the magical girls definitely prefer them sunny side up (hopeful). It matters to the MGs how the eggs are prepared once they realize the truth of things. It also matters to Kyubey as he prefers them down (despaired) because that's when their energy is released. He'll claim to not have a preference, but as an incubator his only agenda is for the eggs to hatch into grief seeds. The teacher and student aren't a part of the MG side of the world so they don't care which side the eggs are on as for them the hope/despair meter swings both ways not just one then the other. At least that's my take on the whole egg thing.]
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Akane the Catgirl
Posts: 1091 Location: LA, Baby! |
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^ Welcome to the forum! We have cookies, so keep up with us!
By the way, I'd like to expand on my answer in regards to the ending of Episode Six. From the events prior to the "don't throw souls" thing, we see Kyoko as a haughty, aggressive, violent individual. She views herself as above us weak and puny humans. Humanity exists to be fodder for Familiars and Witches, and magical girls in return prey upon the aforementioned. With the reveal, Kyoko discovers the horrifying truth; magical girls are the ones on the bottom of the food chain. The hunter had been the hunted all along. And yes, that last sentence is really important for the ending of Episode Eight. Hint, hint. 
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RadarJay
Posts: 51 |
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How I imagine Akane right about know http://a.dilcdn.com/bl/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2013/05/GastonEggs.gif
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Akane the Catgirl
Posts: 1091 Location: LA, Baby! |
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Before we move on to the next set of questions, what is your saddest moment of Madoka so far?
Mine was the mourning scene between Madoka and Sayaka in Episode Four. The ending of the previous episode involved both girls witnessing Mami's horrific decapitation. They can't tell the police, they can't tell their families, and they can't tell anyone at school. Just knowing about the system has isolated them from others, simply because Kyubey has ensured that nobody else can find out. They are the only ones aside of Homura who know about this horrible tragedy. The one thing the girls can do is be Mami's only mourners. Just seeing them so helpless and lost brought me to tears. 
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thebeats42
Posts: 43 Location: Manila, Philippines |
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For me its the part when Mami died. They were idolizing her too much and just moments before she died Madoka promised Mami that they will be together from then on. Seeing her die in that gruesome way right after saying that they're friends is really sad. Madoka started blaming herself for Mami's death saying if only she can make her mind and made her wish sooner or something along those lines.
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Akane the Catgirl
Posts: 1091 Location: LA, Baby! |
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Okay, it's been over two weeks since RadarJay posted the questions for Episodes 4-6. I'm sick and tired of this. I'M going to provide the questions for Episodes 7-9. And they're all about Sayaka! Yay~!
* Ah, the tale of Sayaka is indeed tragic. We open up in Episode Seven with her cradling her soul gem, having realized she just handed over her humanity for a single wish. What do you think her expectations were going into this? *Hitomi, Hitomi, Hitomi. The fanbase hates her because they don't have perspective. Tell the story of Madoka from her point of view. Do you think she's doing the right thing in regards to her and Sayaka's feelings? *"I can't feel the pain anymore!" There's a double meaning to this. (Hint: Go read Allie Brosh's "Depression" comic essay. It's very helpful in regards to the themes of the story.) *Remember how eager Sayaka was to have Madoka come be her cheerleader? Why do you think she's rejecting her help now? *"I was stupid...so stupid..." You can interpret a lot of things from Sayaka's final words. Add in your own opinion. *The barrier of Oktavia von Seckendorff has lots of references to Hans Christian Andersen's The Little Mermaid. With that in mind, go read that. You'll find a lot of parallels between that and the Sayaka plot. Also, for maximum tearjerking, when you finish Episode Eight, try and find "Ningyo Hime" from Chobits. Prepare to cry. |
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RadarJay
Posts: 51 |
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*cracks knuckles*
Ehhe.... Sorry guys. I should be annoyed at myself more then anything ^^;. I took up this whole little undertaking just before moving and starting a particularly weird semester at school, starting a job, and a bunch of other stuff that made these few weeks go by way to quickly. But enough of that ninnyness! I've gotten my schedule figured out. And I DO appreciate Akane for kinda taking up the helm for the week. SO! I have something else to add to the discussion before I delve into episodes 7 and 8 (I'll talk about 9 after a day to allow for some more discourse... for realz) *We know Mami is representative of the system in a particularly insidious way. What do you learn about her story in ep 7 that makes things particularly heart wrenching? Episode 7 Yerp. We're getting into THAT arc. Why does that Boochi love his damn karmic beat downs so damn much :< *All she wanted was to ease the burden of an unjust world. The events with violin boy and witches only helped to facilitate that. Not to mention that right now, her biggest enemies are "bad" magical girls who use humanity for their own survival (see ep 6). Unfortunately.... hehe... as she soon finds out, things ain't QUITE that simple. Hamoura, in a conversation with Madoka explains that miracles are transcendent in nature. Hope has a price, and that price is sacrifice. She alllsooo gives a pretty pertinent little speech on how she's "not human any more". Yeahhh... Just keep that to the back of your mind. Another scene in this episode I really wanna talk about: Kyoko and her apples. We see Kyoko come to Sayaka in a deeply confused and torn state. She explains that the life of a magical girl is one of complete choice and independence, so in that sense, you're only living for yourself and your own choices. She offers Sayaka a stolen apple, (which is deeply representative of her own *take for yourself* attitude that she has for the entire world) as a peace offering. Of course, Sayaka is repulsed and really damn insulted at this (partially because she sees that Kyoko sees them on equal footing... which she don't like). *Hitomi. Oh man. Here Sayaka is, she just reaffirmed her entire belief system with Kyoko, and here she is seeing the "love of her life" taken in front of her eyes. Oh... wait... the question. Right. WELL, Hitiomi don't know diddly about what Sayaka is currently going through, but still sees their deep connection and tries to respect their relationship. Sayaka, on the other hand, is having a whole lil' internal Normandy, with all these conflicted and contradictory feeling on just what she wanted out of her wish and just who she is now that she lost her humanity:< and can't tell anyone. I think this may just be one of the saddest moments up to this point. Episode 8 *Well, I haven't read Depression yet (maybe I'll come back and give my thoughts on the parallels a bit later on). But from what I can tell, Sayaka is simply cutting herself off from any and all desires and motives. She doesn't wanna love, nor does she care about humanity... etc,ect. All she wants to do is fight until she dies, and that's part of the reason why she won't accept the witch's eggs. *She lashes out at Madoka because of her total and complete feeling of inadequacy right now. She is totally lost on her original purpose, because she doesn't feel like she can be a hero at all to anyone. On top of that, she's kinda in the shitter because of her mistake. *"I was stupid. So stupid*... Sayaka made a mistake of the heart due to her own selfish idealisms, and even hurt Madoka on the way. For all of the good she tried to do, her actions only hit her back 10 fold. But you know what they say 'bout hindsight. And ahhhh!!! Geez, isn't Kyubey's line at the end such a great send off to the episode, in the dramatic scheme of things? Last edited by RadarJay on Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:15 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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RadarJay
Posts: 51 |
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Welp, it's episode 9 folks. We're given one incredibly dense episode as the show reaches it's first climax and we're brought the dramatic, elegant send off of two of our heroins that come from opposite sides of the color palette. NOW! I wanna keep these questions running until I post up the next set Wednesday, so before I talk about the episode in length, I'll offer a couple of questions for you guys to muddle though (And... well... I'm kinda tired about talking through all of these episodes in a little hotbox only between me and a few other people over a three-day period). Without further hobknockery, I leave you with a couple of things to chew on.
AND DON'T FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE TO ANSWER EVERYTHING UP HERE PEOPLE D8 good lord, there are like 9 questions by now. Besides, one person answering everything is no fun for everyone else. *Kyube talks about the nature of magical girls and what the ultimate end game is for the incubators. In addition, he reveals that while he's the greatest asset to humanity, he is simultaneously the greatest enemy of the magical girls. How does this relate to that big ol' word "hope" that this show revolves around? *What's the dramatic significance of Kyoko and Sayaka's little death dance? Think back to their relationship as foils, and you'll get it. Last edited by RadarJay on Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Akane the Catgirl
Posts: 1091 Location: LA, Baby! |
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I'm going to answer our questions for Episode Nine separately. Let's tackle Episodes Seven and Eight!
Let's start off with your question! 1. Poor Mami had always been a pawn for the institution she supported. She was kept ignorant to the nastier consequences of the magical girl system. Throughout her career, Mami never once questioned or forcibly discovered that she and her fellow magical girls were liches incubating into the very monsters they fight. And now for my opinions! 1. I imagine that Sayaka contracted with Kyubey thinking that she was the main heroine. Yeah, there's some death, but this show is supposed to be exactly like Sailor Moon, right? Sayaka's not going to end up like Mami did! She's going to be the hero! Well...she is a hero. A tragic hero. 2. Hitomi Shizuki was a relatively normal girl living a relatively normal life. She's got her best friends by her side, and probably a loving family too. Only problem is that she and one of her best friends have a crush on the same guy. (There's also Episode Four, but that's not important.) So, Hitomi decides that the best solution is to give Sayaka the first shot at confessing. However, due to Kyubey being a manipulative sociopath, Sayaka can't confront Kyousuke or Hitomi with her feelings because of what's happened to her. 3. In Allie Brosh's "Depression", the author talks about losing her ability to have any emotion other than apathy while she was battling depression. She describes it as "...[a] detached, meaningless fog where you can't feel anything about anything- even the things you love, even fun things- and you're horribly bored and lonely...". If you look at the magical girl system as a metaphor for depression and suicide, this makes a lot of sense when you see Sayaka's breakdown at the end of Episode Seven. 4. In Episode Eight, when Sayaka abandons Madoka at the bus station, she claims that Madoka can't understand the pain she's going through. What is unsaid here is "You don't know what it's like to be me right now. You don't get it. You can never understand. Nobody can." 5. There are many interpretations of Sayaka's dying words you can make. For example, she was stupid for using her wish to heal Kyosuke. She was stupid for expecting everything to turn out well. Or even, she was stupid for thinking that the world was worth saving. Additional Notes: When Kyoko and Sayaka meet at the remains of the Sakura Church, the former gives the latter a stolen apple. We have a shot where Sayaka looks at her reflection through the apple, then throws it away. I don't think she likes what she sees. After Sayaka meets up with Madoka after her talk with Hitomi, it's clear her feelings are started to get jumbled and mixed up. Sayaka berates herself for feeling envy towards Hitomi, then disgust as she says she can't be with Kyosuke because of what happened to her soul. Not only is it depressing, but if you listen to it out of context, it sounds like a rape victim talking about how she's "damaged goods" and can never be good enough for anyone. The Witch at the end of Episode Seven is named Elsa Maria. She is the Shadow Witch with a self-righteous nature. I heard that in Jungian Psychology, the shadow is representative of the dark aspects of yourself. Oh, Sayaka... Also, Kyubey is a sociopath. A huge sociopath. |
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