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Gasero
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Posts: 939
Location: USA
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:11 pm
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All this time Five was just a diversion from the interesting part of the plot? I can't think of what she actually contributed to the end game. What did she do? Now there is only one episode remaining to conclude the interesting part of this story.
Very disappointing.
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Angel'sArcanum
Joined: 02 Sep 2010
Posts: 303
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:52 pm
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Perhaps it's just me, but I was surprised to find things started to shape up a little more partly in episode 5 and then more overtly in episode 6 and 7 (granted, that's where I stopped for now). I think prior to that point the series came off as a bit too self-conscious at times and the narrative was a little scattershot with bits and pieces of characterization, world-building and drama thrown around without too much ground to properly settle on anything, but with Five's maniacal plan, things got a bit more focused and we see Nine and Twelve start to stress their emphasis on being well-intentioned extremists more here, actually going out of their way to prevent people from dying (and also saving their skins in themselves by not tainting them with people's lives lost to them). My take on it is that it is a way of flipping the table on (excessive) nihilism in youths and a persisting sense of self-importance and rigid, narrow-minded moral righteousness. They gradually go from masquerading on the stream and having sort of delusions of grandeur with their playful and initially sadistic-seeming streams and callously playing with bombs in their schemes to send a message, only for things to go truly awry and have them recognize the weight of their actions. I will say there are some logic gaps here and there with how things kind of play out a little too smoothly, in some cases, but I guess Watanabe is more for prioritizing message here, and that is further rectified in Lisa being more of a plot device (really hope they actually GIVE/GAVE her a backstory rather than just that small bit with her mom) but at least she serves to unveil some weaknesses and also leeway in our protagonists as opposed to Death Note where I find Misa and that other girl are pretty much just Light's tools. I'll be frank though, I still prefer this far more than Death Note because the supernatural element didn't completely validate it all for me, and the ability to have thousands of bugs planted in a young adult's room sounds a little too fantastical to be a realistic contrast to Light's special book; I can tolerate Five's weird chess shenanigans more. Not to mention again that Death Note is MORE misogynistic, more shallow in its misanthropy given the direction and has poorer moral ambiguity and leniency than what I've taken from Terror in Resonance, and surely there were still hints that they weren't looking to kill anyone in the early parts (even though it ends up being rather "miracles" of sorts).
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HaruhiToy
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 4118
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Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:39 am
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Gasero wrote: | All this time Five was just a diversion from the interesting part of the plot? I can't think of what she actually contributed to the end game. What did she do? |
She forced Sphinx out into the open. Prior to her arrival 12 was calling all the shots and setting all the terms.
Personally I am not sorry to see her go. We don't have to look at that haircut anymore.
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Gasero
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Posts: 939
Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:08 pm
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I think the police could have forced Spinx into the open well enough. The writers tried to hard to make police look incompetent.
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Lann
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 268
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:46 am
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I want a Shibazaki mini series. Wait this was a mini series. I want a Shibazaki series.
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Gina Szanboti
Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11346
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:50 am
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Quote: | They manage to stop the atomic bomb unleashed at the end of last week ... they just almost accidentally blew up Tokyo |
Did you have to leave the room while this was running? The bomb did go off (making quite a beautiful spectacle for a full minute of screen time), and there was no accidentally about it. That was their plan - if no one would let them speak, they were going to blow it up over Tokyo. Did you think Nine just happened to have a giant weather balloon lying about in his hideout that he thought might be useful for something?
I also think we got very different take-away messages from this on the political front, which is yet another reason I didn't like this series (mostly because Lisa, but gaping plot holes and miracles too). I hope the Japanese see in it what you did, rather than what I did.
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Gabbomatic
Joined: 21 Aug 2014
Posts: 74
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:57 am
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I interpreted it as accidental because Nine didn't intend to use that bomb according to how the plan was going. He was on the way to his press conference (where he presumably would've revealed on this stuff without relying on more force) before Five went crazy and drove him off of the road, setting it off on automatic. So yeah, it was a backup plan accidentally launched.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter
Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23769
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:02 am
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I am pretty much in the same spot as Gabriella: very cognizant of TiR's flaws, but generally like the show, regardless.
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RestLessone
Joined: 02 Aug 2009
Posts: 1426
Location: New York
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:17 am
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The OST, art, animation, general idea...I liked them. The introduction of Five spun things off course. It didn't fit the mood they had going, and the Oedipus stuff was completely dropped. I forgot about it until it was mentioned again.
I can't really sympathize with Nine and Twelve. Or, I can to the extent that they are deeply troubled after their childhood. But they caused so much damage. They can act like no one was killed or grievously injured, but this isn't accurate. Just because the bomb didn't kill anyone doesn't mean people were fine. I mentioned this in the other thread, but many people in hospitals rely on electricity. In the panic to escape, people may have been involved in automobile accidents. People may have killed themselves to avoid the atomic bomb. The show wanted two terrorist characters who were good through and through. That caused damage but did not harm people. It's just not believable.
I didn't care about these characters. We barely saw Nine and Twelve interact as friends or brothers, in present time or through flashback. We are just told over and over that they are close and have always been together. How about some clips of them learning to survive on their own? Lisa didn't do much of anything. Five was a distraction. Shibazaki's 'I know everything'/'I am the true detective' character annoyed me after a bit. That the US chose not to take down Nine first was the icing on the cake. Nine is holding a detonator. You'd have thought that killing his companion would just up the chances of him using it. But no, the show wanted a 'meaningful' ending, so had Nine die of his disease.
It wasn't terrible or the even that bad, but the potential--and there was so much potential!--was wasted. To me, that's worse than a show that starts poorly and ends poorly.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:24 am
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I walked away from it pretty unsatisfied, myself.
If you're going to create a show where the two lead characters are terrorists, I think you have a general responsibility to say something compelling about terrorism. The show didn't give us characters to care about - it felt like we got maybe 15 minutes of character development total, even when the show was repeating itself over and over in the first half - so it needed to say something, anything at all that was a little ballsy or at least interesting about this shocking and controversial topic it's decided to put front and center.
Instead what we got was "nations that become military superpowers through force and intervention - so America, basically - create environments and circumstances where terrorists are produced, and the violence visited on that society as a result is the product of its own hand." This refrain is true, but it's been commonly accepted truth since roughly forever. I was concerned in the early going that that was the only thing the show really had to say about terrorism; turns out it also did the "the victims of injustice on a global scale wind up using violence to speak loud enough so the world is forced to pay attention and make change" thing, Which also isn't a particularly controversial thing to say nor is it even a very sophisticated rumination on why terrorists act (although the show does feature the spectacularly stupid line "these guys aren't like regular terrorists, they have something they need us to hear!" so I'm not even sure they understood the motivations behind terrorism that well). I suppose the idea that America's short leash on Japan created an environment that produced terrorists could be considered controversial but they don't explore the idea very much beyond the initial statement.
It was explained to me that all of this is fairly controversial in Japan - I suppose because the conversations about terrorism there don't mirror our own in the west, but I can't and don't pretend I'm a Japanese person when I'm watching anime, so the show felt very weak thematically to me. If there had been characters to care about, the show didn't repeat itself to the point of absurdity in the early going, and they hadn't made the terrible mistake of turning Lisa into a prop roughly 3 episodes in and totally botching Five's storyline altogether then not having much to say about terrorism maybe wouldn't have bothered me so much. But that isn't the show we got.
It didn't even feel like a particularly potent commentary on domestic terrorism from a Japanese perspective - Penguindrum touched on this subject in a much more complicated and personal way, and felt like it was reaching into the psychological effect that domestic terrorism has had on Japan as a society. Here we get warmed-over, obvious ruminations on large-scale terror. I was really let down.
Good score though.
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princess passa passa
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:55 am
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Lann wrote: | I want a Shibazaki mini series. Wait this was a mini series. I want a Shibazaki series. |
This would be very welcomed.
The Anime Disappointments that hurt the most, are the ones like this. All the trappings (well known team, great OST, top notch animation) but clumsy story execution and lack of consistent character development.
*sigh* Very unsatisfying.
Episodes 1-5 (though not perfect) will be cherished.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter
Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23769
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:01 pm
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I am pretty much in the same spot as Gabriella: very cognizant of TiR's flaws, but generally like the show, regardless.
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Dop.L
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 714
Location: London
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:22 pm
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I thought it was pretty obvious that Nine was bluffing about the other bombs, a last act of desperation as he wanted them to have their day in court rather than be assassinated to prevent them bearing witness.
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Gabbomatic
Joined: 21 Aug 2014
Posts: 74
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:41 pm
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Ragga Ragga wrote: |
Episodes 1-5 (though not perfect) will be cherished. |
I agree. I think that what I'll eventually come to value from this series are those episodes as well as scattered scenes from later on in the series.
TiR is an interesting show with threads of genuine warmth, but it lost sight of its ultimate goals in terms of characterization and theme. At least it'll start up discussion about how it could've been done better.
Purely technically I think the attempt at capturing "animated realism" was pretty masterful, so this'll always have that going for it too. Solidifies Watanabe as a master of the breadth of animation.
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Monocle_Grizzly
Joined: 21 Aug 2014
Posts: 4
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:43 pm
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I'm still gathering my thoughts and don't have much time, so this may sound like a ramble
I guess one reason I liked the show so much was that I did connect with the characters, especially 9. I found most of them to be quite sympathetic and their struggles relatable. I guess I'm with Gabriella in that my worldview also mirrors the protags. The character writing is there, but it's very understated.
I do agree that it doesn't say anything particularly new about terrorism and systemic oppression. I think this show just reached me at the right time.
I love the show and I liked the ending, but it could have been smoother.
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