Forum - View topicCross Ange: Rondo of Angels and Dragons (TV).
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23770 |
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Was that a spoiler[panty that Hilda stuck in Ange's exhaust intake?] Classy.
 Fun eppie. I look forward to Ange finally spoiler[accepting Lollipop girl and her busty, pink haired friend.] I was wondering when that spoiler[dude in the OP was going to be introduced.]
Best line of the eppie: spoiler["Do you get embarrassed when a bug sees you naked?"]  Burn Princess, indeed.
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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Actually I am sort of impressed that the writer chose not to make Ange in any way accommodating to any of her peers and in fact doesn't see them as peers. She is stubborn and that is what they want to highlight. It was a bit abrupt, if not expected, to having her go from terrified helplessness to total battlefield dominance in less than 90 seconds of screen time counting last episode and this one. I would have thought that Selia would have confronted Ange at least somewhat about her lack of discipline. She is clearly a loose cannon in battle and I would think someone who wanted to do a good job in their new command would want to clamp down on that. Hilda likes the girls and the girls like Hilda. And they all liked Zola. I am sure all the prior posters impressed by their own moral perspective will check in on this. From the preview the next episode looks like a lot of fun. Too bad everyone was so freaked out by Episode 1 that they aren't around to watch it anymore. Their loss. |
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Crusher X303
 Posts: 122 Location: Glendora, California |
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It might be just me.... but I can't wait to see something bad happen to Hilda. (Edit) I was really hoping that when spoiler[ she messed around with Ange's mech, when the engine backfired because of the panties(?) that it would have made her lose control and bump into one of Hilda's lesbian buddies causing her to crash and die.]
This has been a really enjoyable show so far. Love the mech-jets they ride. |
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Cptn_Taylor
Posts: 925 |
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It's not so much about love as it is about "buying power". The episode makes clear in two occasions that with enough money you can buy your sexual partners. Once it is said to Ange when she goes shopping for her new dress, and the second time it's Hilda that tells Rosalie and her friend she has just bought Zola's love nest and everything in it including the two girls.
Exactly their loss. Cross Ange is the greatest trashiest anime right now. A throwback in certain respects to 80-90 superviolent OVAs. Man how I miss them. I love to hate Ange. She's just such a bitch. Great warrior but a lousy person. |
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leatherhead333
 Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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Yes the leftover harem or "The Three Stooges" are totally worth noting. Episode 4 Probably the funniest thing about this episode was how abrupt Ange's change in behavior is now. She now has the reflexes of a spider man, the skills to take on most the enemy herself and cares not of how she looks in front of people. Did that ring come bundled with a "I'm a super loner badass for no reason now"? The "comical bullying" made the leftover harem girls look even more pathetic. Grrrrrr we are mad about Ange killing our boss even though sending an unready soldier into the field was completely and totally her own fault. She even killed the two other recruits even though she totally didn't!Let us get our vengeance by giving her diarrhea water, ripped clothes and throwing a perfectly good lunch at her. This will surely accomplish our revenge! Let us not forget that she totally did not save us from being brutally dragon murdered in the last episode when she awakened that deus ex ring. That part didn't happen! I really don't get what the writers want me to feel from this whole subplot. Are we supposed to feel bad for them and hate Ange or the opposite? Because right now I just hate them all for how damn annoying they are. Ange's behavior would be fine if she wasn't a bitch to the people trying to actually HELP her too. I don't think the lollipop girl, pinky or captain blue believe "yes we totally don't care about the incident with Zola" but they have the tact to at least try to move beyond it since Ange has proven herself in battle even if she isn't cooperative. But I guess you can't underestimate the power of the harem stooges!
So THAT'S why Ange and the new guy were naked in the opening. That's how they first MET! They forgot the rope though :<. |
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Cptn_Taylor
Posts: 925 |
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Is a woman considered naked if she is just topless ? Yes, no ?
Because people still don't understand the spirit of this anime. Ange in the preview is not naked, she's topless. And while her pilot dress is shown next to the bed we don't see her slip so 99,99% probability she's still wearing it. |
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leatherhead333
Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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Well she wasn't wearing anything on her legs and feet either. What else are we supposed to assume? Since the series does have "convenient censoring" a whole blanket going over her body doesn't exactly say "oh she's still got some stuff on under there!". Not buying it. She might have panties on that's it.
That reminds me of the protest a while back that had people fighting over how women should have the right to walk around topless if men can. Ah if only such a thing passed right? Equality! 
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Crusher X303
Posts: 122 Location: Glendora, California |
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I know a few others have... but that did pass in New York, so its a start at least....
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13227 |
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I don't think it's that abrupt. It was established already that she's above average in most things, which I'd attest to her royal education. She's hardened her heart for the sake of her resolve to live but she still hasn't dropped her prejudices against normas. In fact I'd say it's gotten worse. |
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Mecha Hunter
Posts: 5 |
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New sign in, first time poster here.
Got to say, this series is certainly a guilty pleasure for me. For the record, I do NOT like the way Princess Angelise aka Ange is being treated at all. Considering the fusion of the worst possible military and prison stereotypes, I can't say it's unexpected. It's like the show is mixing the worst elements of Freezing and Valvrave, yet neglecting their redeeming qualities. At least for now. A lot of people seem to like calling the princess a "bitch" and "completely unlikeable." I disagree. Aside from the In Medias Res opening, the first scene she's in, she chooses to lose a game by prioritizing the safety of her classmate who could well have died from her fall if Ange did not neglect the ball to catch her. This shows that she's inherently a good person. Second, the scene with the woman and her baby... Really, if Ange alone, as princess, held those views, she would be a monster, but the look of horror on those officers as the baby tore through the barrier shows her whole society thinks that way. Imagine this, baby Bengal Tigers are cute, right? Would you want your neighbor keeping one as a pet? OF COURSE NOT! Bengal Tigers are inherently VERY dangerous. One of them could maul you or someone you care about to death easily without intending to do so. No matter how much your neighbor might adore his/her "baby," you'd want the authorities to take that beast away, by any means necessary. She, along with the rest of her society was brought up to believe that Norma are inherently irrational and violent without exception, and it's only a matter of time before they rampage indiscriminately which leads to point three. Further, Angelise never intended to EXTERMINATE the Norma. She wanted to investigate why they had that defect and prevent others from suffering it in the future. That's a very compassionate goal. Too bad she did not get to see that goal accomplished. Third. The brutal beatdown and technical rape she received form Commander Jill, and rape attempt from Captain Zola only served to REINFORCE her mindset. "Jill and Zola are irrational, violent and rampaging. They admit to being Norma. I, Princess Angelise, of 'M' kingdom don't behave that way, therefore I am not Norma. There must be some other reason why Mana is not working for me." (She comes up with "Mana just can't reach here" when she meets Coco.) Fourth. Her desertion attempt. No civilized court on Earth would consider fully pressing charges on desertion when facing her extenuating circumstances, ie the constant threat of rape. In fact, a close eye to Jill's reaction at the end of episode three and listening closely to Jill's conversation with the quartermaster leads me to believe that Jill WANTED Ange to attempt desertion and would have let Zola keep raping her until she tried, just so she could place the blame for the death of her squadmates on her head and have her fight the Dragons purely out of survivor's guilt! Fifth. Why did Jill put the royal ring on Ange's finger and give her the super-mecha? Turns out Ange CAN use Mana after all! The ring burst out mana and pimped out her mecha the moment Ange's blood touched it, which is apparently why no one else could fly it properly. Sixth. I find it difficult to see Zola as a good leader, and aside from Stockholm syndrome, I fail to understand how any one of her subordinates would love her. Trade sex for certain favors, perhaps, but love? Further marks against her being a good leader is prioritizing raping her new recruit(s) over actually teaching them how to fight the dragons properly. There's also the fact that her final orders were "just try to stay alive." Not "return to base." Or anything tactically sound. As far as I'm concerned, the deaths of those three people, including Zola herself, was entirely her fault and Jill's. Seventh. Bullies will be bullies. Most of the time, they don't have any logical reason for going after you. Heck, maybe they even know it, they just don't care. Those three girls in Zola's harem twisted logic into a pretzel just so they could interpret anything Ange said or did as a personal insult, and it only got worse after Zola's death. It's typical "blame the victim" stuff. Heck, they even tried to take Ange out with "friendly fire" near the beginning of episode 4, that's the reason Ange pushed the twin-tail aside. Payback for being shot at. Eighth. Ange's aloof "bitchiness" in episode 4 is what's known as a "Jerkass facade." She doesn't want anyone to get close to her because she doesn't want to lose anyone close to her again. She's ALREADY lost her mother, her father, her younger sister, Coco, and Miriam. Ersha even lampshades it from the kitchen. (In a sympathetic tone) "Ange." Ange's also very wise to deposit the vast majority of her cash, so that the bully trio doesn't go after it. |
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Crusher X303
Posts: 122 Location: Glendora, California |
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I don't know... I interpreted those parts a bit differently. The sales lady talking to Ange gave me the vibe of "You can throw money at your problems, everyone wants something". You had one other squad mate there drooling over some weapons. Then a few scenes later another (or was it the same one?) going over a wish list of things she wants to buy eventually. So that just gave me the impression that she could, with enough money, buy off the people messing with her. Then with Hilda, that seems to be more of their declaration of love. Its obvious they all deeply cared for each other. The way they have been acting after Zola's death, then in the room the board with all the pictures and memories (all of which had every single one of the smiling and happy), then Hilda going out of her way to buy all of Zola's physical possessions. All of that, to me, gave me the impression that Hilda was just trying to piece everything back together, as well as get everything back to normal for the other 2 girls. It never seemed like she literally bought them, sounded more like she was telling them she will take care of them now like Zola did for them originally. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15462 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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They are frustrated and they don't have any way to direct their frustration other than at Ange. Zola provided them with affection, they are really all missing normal relationships of mothers, siblings (sisters), or prospective straight relationships, as gross as it might sound with what I just mentioned, it is no surprise that they end up in that kind of relationship. That they have a mix up of feelings that are not necessarily Stockholm syndrome. The thing I like about this show is that you really can put a lot of the way they act down to the lives they have lived. You can't entirely blame Ange for the way she thinks about Norma, but at the same time you can see that she is still resisting, she still does not want to admit she is one. By now she should see that they are just people, yet her own pride that is probably hurt from apparently losing everything (her old kingdom is gone too) has her treating people like bugs. As soon as she accepts that they are people she accepts that her core beliefs are wrong, plus she really does not know how to actually act by herself. I don't think it is that she does not want to get hurt again. We did start to see a little, I think she apparently bought their graves already, something that they see as a kind gesture. |
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Mecha Hunter
Posts: 5 |
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The trio are the very definition of Stockholm syndrome. "Identifying with captors or oppressors and sympathizing with them after extended periods of captivity." Heck, Ms. Twintails KNEW from the beginning that Zola would sexually target and FORCE herself on Ange simply from hearing the announcement that Ange was arriving and now blames Zola's death on her because "Ange seduced her." As for treating people like bugs, she never did that BEFORE Coco's and Miriam's deaths. She's being harsh to keep people from getting close because people who get close have bad things happen to them, and she doesn't want that. Jill's little speech at the cemetery in episode 3 obviously hammered that particular pattern home. Again, the bully trio were bullies BEFORE Zola's death, for no logical reason, and now they're worse bullies for even less. |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15462 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Because she was treating the like they were roaches, acting like she is better than them when she has managed to live a good life and they have had to fight for their lives. No evidence points that Zola held people captive, she was pretty much a product of their lives as the other girls were. We know that she did force herself onto other girls, but that does not mean that relationships that might have come from it later are not worth anything. You might see it as not healthy, but their entire lives really is not healthy. And Ange unnecessarily crashed into Zola because she was scared, that is why she is blamed with Zola's death, I don't think anyone in the show said Ange seduced her. You seemed to have excused Ange from what she has done based on how we have seen her past and why she would act that way, but not afforded the same thought to other characters. This does not mean I am saying you should see Zola as a great person who was the pinnacle of a good leader, but that everyone is flawed. |
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Mecha Hunter
Posts: 5 |
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She did NOT treat them like roaches when she met them. You seem to have confused her current Jerkass facade with the traumatized shell-shocked behavior she showed at her arrival at the prison/military base. Further, the bully trio has shown NO hidden depths to their personalities. From the beginning, they've gone out of their way to antagonize Ange (not the other way around), twisting logic into a pretzel to justify doing so. Prime example: They see Ange in the cafeteria, eating alone at a table, take all her food from her tray while pretending to care about her well being, and when she asks (quite innocently) how they can stomach the taste, Hilda nearly blows her lid as if she's insulting them personally. In addition, Ange was shown treating Coco and Miriam kindly because they did not try to antagonize her. (Fat lot of good it did them, considering their Captain Zola thought it more important to both rape Ange and gloryhound than actually look after their well being.) Furthermore, Hilda (the red-head twin tail) explicitly stated Ange plying sexual favors to gain the approval of her superiors in episode four. "She must be REALLY GOOD IN BED, that whore." Don't even get me started at the treatment Hilda got from Zola the last time we saw the two together. "Domestic abuse" doesn't even begin to cover it. Somehow I fail to see how that makes anyone a "fine leader" as the bully trio, or several other members of the cast claim. As to why Silvia, the new Captain (who was clearly NOT prepared for the role) isn't clamping down on Ange yet? It's for one of two reasons. 1.) She's still getting used to her new role. (Which is why she allowed the bully trio to prank Ange so badly without consequence until they started to harass all the other pilots in the process.) 2.) Ange is getting the job done, and done well with a minimum of fuss to the rest of the squad. (Jill is quite pleased with Ange in this.) Silvia is wisely just staying out of the way. 3.) The discipline on the base, like in Freezing, is basically non-existent outside of brute force (case and point Hilda drew a gun on Silvia, a superior officer, and didn't even receive a reprimand), and Silvia does not want to damage "her" paramail that Ange is currently "borrowing." The moment those three start showing some aspect to their character aside from "bully the newcomer," or "I can do what I want because Zola's my lover." I'll comment on it, but for now, that's all they've shown us. This show does raise some interesting questions though. Ange already tried to investigate two of them. Why are some people born "norma" and why are they all women?" And Why do the dragons who can jump dimensions at will always show up at Arzenal? Why not over a major city somewhere? It's not like there's a giant metal Torus, or other clearly visible, nigh indestructible artifact there. They just keep coming through at a point of the highest resistance. I really hope they answer this one in the story soon enough. Last edited by Mecha Hunter on Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:55 am; edited 2 times in total |
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