Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Psycho-Pass 2
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CoreSignal
 Posts: 727 Location: California, USA |
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Same impression here. Makishima was the cold and composed, mastermind but Kamui is coming off as a creepy, eccentric genius. |
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SailorTralfamadore
 Posts: 499 Location: Keep Austin Weeb |
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Man, I agree so much with Hope about Mika.
There's a way to write "I agree with the system", by-the-book characters. S1!Ginoza was how. Mika is not. She stretches this stuff so far that it's unbelievable, and all she comes off as is someone who is mean for no reason. There are a lot of things I want from this show, but her getting toned down or phased out entirely (because we don't really need a rehash of the growth Ginoza went through in S1, but with another character) is one of the biggest ones. |
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Flare-kun
 Posts: 92 |
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I pretty much agree with this assessment. I think she provides a valuable counter-point to Akane's open-mindedness and ability to color outside the lines despite the constraints of the system. I also think it's important for us to remember the sort of society that they live in. We know what Sibyl is; we understand the limitations and flaws of the system. But most people raised underneath Sibyl's purview are not free thinkers such as Akane and Kogami, nor do they have the bird's eye view that we have as viewers. In Season 1, we had Ginoza, but his strict morals were as much a product of his relationship with his father as they were of the system itself. I interpret Mika as a completely different character than Season 1 Ginoza; she's someone who clings to the system as a safety blanket, as a means of maintaining stability and control. I think they've already foreshadowed that as the season continues, her preconceptions of what it means to be productive member of not only the MWPSB, but of their society, will be challenged, and probably broken down. She lacks the will and self-assuredness of Akane, and the strong conviction of Ginoza. She's someone who's put her entire trust in the hands of a system that she refuses to accept is flawed, because if it did it means accepting that her entire worldview is a hollow lie she's fed herself. That's why she has to hold on to her shallow justifications so tightly; because if she didn't, letting go would cause her to lose all sense of self, and might lead to her destruction. Frankly, I think the writers have done an excellent job of characterizing her in this fashion, and I find her to be suitably complex and interesting, as well as a necessary foil for Akane, despite the fact that her bullheadedness and arrogance can be infuriating (which I feel is wholly intentional). Ultimately, however, I think this is simply an expression of her insecurity, hence her tendency to behave with such single-minded vehemence, shutting out any challenges to her strict worldview that might shake her. The thing to understand about her is that she is weak-minded, something I think she recognizes on a subconscious level. I'd venture that most people living in this society probably are more like her, and I actually think it's important and refreshing that for once we have a character who's likely more indicative of the population as a whole, than yet another wild card. I'm surprised to hear everyone poo-pooing the writing, as well. At this point in Season 1 very little had actually happened, and I wasn't completely sold on the show until the fifth or sixth episode. This time around, the stakes are high, mysteries are already being unraveled even as others are being woven, and Akane has evolved into a protagonist worth rooting for even without Kogami to guide her. While the season premiere was very much a mirror to show us how much Akane has changed since the first episode of Season 1, everything from the tag where we got our first glimpse of Kamui onward has kept me riveted. I can't say where it will stand as the season progresses, but right now, comparing episode to episode, I actually put Season 2 ahead of the first one. Am I the only one who feels this way? |
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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Flare-kun. First post? Nice job. Actually I think season 1 was better so far because it built a better sense of foreboding and mystery than we have seen so far in season 2. A lot of that is because we (and Akane) already know what the Sybil system is. Nonetheless I think season 2 is quite worthwhile and it has the potential to develop something better. Give it time. I see the writing of both seasons about the same. |
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CoreSignal
Posts: 727 Location: California, USA |
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I somewhat disagree. The first five-six episodes, while not much happening plot-wise, give you glimpses into each of the characters personalities, and what do they off the case. So far, we haven't really seen much downtime for the characters. Since this season is much shorter than the first, the writers probably have to get the main plot progressing faster than the first season and the result of that is more rushed characterization for some of the characters.
In terms of plot and pacing, yes, but everything else I would say is about the same or not as good yet.
Agree, I think the first couple episodes that everybody found boring were needed to set the atmosphere and explain how the society works. This season has advantage of not having to explain what are psycho passes, how inspectors/enforcers work, what is Sybil, etc.
Yep, I'd say both seasons are even so far in terms of writing. Season 2 has the advantage of skipping the world building stuff and we still have 8 episodes to go, so here's hoping that writers can pull off something great. |
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Flare-kun
Posts: 92 |
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Why thank you.
One thing that I think the first season benefited from was the flash forward to Kogami and Makishima and their fight, and I actually appreciate that they chose not to go that route with the second season. So in that respect, I do agree that there was a greater degree of mystery at the outset of season 1, but as to the foreboding, I actually get more of that with season 2. Just my personal response to the material, I suppose. To each their own. 
For my taste, the best writing is when characters are able to take actions and make decisions that illuminate their personalities and traits as they advance through a forward-moving plot. A meshing of both aspects, as it were, rather than most character development happening in moments that are removed from the action. I feel a good job has been done with this thus far for Akane, Mika, Kamui, and even Ginoza. That said, characterization for Kogane and Hinakawa has been decidedly lacking, and I've also been disappointed at the very small amount of interaction between Akane and the Chief/Sibyl. So as far as characterization goes, I do think there's been some positives, but I also agree with you that in other places it needs work. It's a mixed bag. I'm also disappointed to hear that this will be an abbreviated season. I hadn't realized that was the case. Thanks for the heads up. |
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CoreSignal
Posts: 727 Location: California, USA |
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Completely agree with you here. The best shows know how to do both character development and plot progression at the same time. I do think the first 3 episodes so far have been more interesting than the first 3 episodes of the first season.
Same here, I think the main cast is being fleshed out pretty well, but some of the other characters like Kogane and Hinakawa, haven't gotten much screen time so far. I'm also a little worried about the episode count as well. I'm hoping the writers are able to pull off something good in such a shorter amount of time. At least a (follow-up?) movie is also in the works. |
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Doodleboy
Posts: 296 |
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That... was the most unpleasant Psychopass episode I watched, I mean Psychopass S1 thrived on being disturbing but ugh.
Would it kill the writer to give Mika something sympathetic? Not just constantly make terrible decisions and have terrible opinions. That's not a fully-realized flawed human being, that's a cartoon character. If you're not planning on doing anything with her, don't have her take up so much screen-time. At this point it seems like Tow gave a lot of attention to Akane and a lot of attention to Kamui... and everyone else is just a cog to keep that story going. The dialogue is kind of a mess too. Also wonder if Amano's character models are just hard to keep consistent. The animation this season has alot of off-model shots. IG had that infamous episode also. Kamui is still an interesting enough villain for me to keep watching and I still want to see the results of the conflict between him, Sibyl and Akane but eh... |
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鏡
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Because you're not reading in-between the lines doesn't mean there's nothing to read there. The whole point of Mika's characterization is that she's the absolute paragon of an inspector, her behaviour is exactly what you would expect from someone who placed high on an aptitude test for the MWPSB. Despite this even Sibyl itself recognizes her incompetence. Both Gino in the last season and Akane in this season are exceptions, and Mika is supposed to be used as a foil to them to show that. Mika's character is also being used to emphasize the absurdity of the Sibyl system itself, as her judgments defer entirely to its judgments, compared with Akane who is basically holding Sibyl hostage/being held hostage by Sibyl and seems like a much more rational character. The calling in of Division 3 speaks to the fact that Sibyl is kind of tearing itself up at the seams.
Another point I think this review seriously missed was the intentional emptiness of the "tired philosophical monologues". spoiler[It's extremely likely Kamui was watching that entire hostage situation from inside the building, and that none of these monologues delivered by the bomber or this episode's murderer are even slightly reflective of Kamui's own goals and ideologies.] These terrorists are being used as props by Kamui to demonstrate the absurdity of Sibyl, and the inversion of inspectors' psycho passes is symbolic of that goal. All in all I think this episode was better than any in the first ten of season 1: I'm very interested in seeing what Kamui is going to do next and how division 1 is going to evolve. |
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Doodleboy
Posts: 296 |
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Looking at that episode I don't think much thought was placed into Mika's role. The writer wentspoiler[ "Ok, I have this bloody climax planned for Kamui's masterstroke. How do I get the MWSB to not do the sane action and break in when a officer stops responding and violence is clearly happening?".] spoiler[And that choice of using Mika to do so kind of hurt her character... alot... Now she's an incompetent coward who's arrogant but unwilling to take responsibility. And it hurts my faith in the writer that her character is going to go somewhere.] spoiler[Same with the other inspector, all that build-up, and she gets sacrificed for the Kamui-plotline.] As for the dialogue... yeah the review was right, lots of repetition. There are better ways to convey character then have them state their motivations over and over again. |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Whaaaaaaat? Naw man, people hate Mika primarily because they have no idea how she was ever approved for work as an Inspector, even by the system's standards, and this is further illustrated by Sibyl also seeing her as a low-ranking Inspector and dismissing her a lot. Most of her issues stem FROM "the chief," as in Sibyl, not seeing her as very valuable. She "believes in the system," in a sycophantic "yes let me please you master" way, but she has none of the qualities Sibyl places value on for that position. Let's look at Ginoza. Gino really was the "paragon of an inspector," as reinforced constantly by season one, and that's why Sibyl let him in on as much classified information as she did (while twisting it just enough to keep him on a leash.) He was staunchly objective, followed the rules without questioning them, but also thought on his own to apply those rules to specific situations with affirmative action. He rejected emotion and personal ties to the extent that he alienated both his best friend and his own father when they became Enforcers. That is an ideal Inspector, and he only fell from that position because, you know, he became a good human dude, so his "fall" was a redemption from a horrible position of emotionless rules-bound detachment. Now let's look at Mika. Sibyl does not like or trust her very much for good reason. She's extremely emotionally driven, petty to the point of twisting information about a case or situation to make someone she doesn't like look bad and waste everyone's time, and she "follows the rules" but to such a useless degree that she cannot apply them to relevant situations without direct orders. (Ginoza "understands the Bible," so to speak, Mika can only quote verses and then ask for a pat on the head.) She is a terrible Inspector. She is one of the most transparently emotional and irrational characters in the cast by a mile, and if there's two things that Sybil hates... Yeah, I don't buy that. People don't hate Mika because she's a good Inspector, and this episode proved that pretty firmly as she gets steamrolled by Section 3. They hate her because she's Scrappy Doo. |
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鏡
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She's not a "good" inspector if by good you mean "effective at catching criminals and making effective moral judgment calls". That's why I used the word paragon: she's an archetypal example of a Sibyl inspector, one who's only job is to carry out the judgments provided by her and her enforcers' dominators. Gino was an alright inspector, but most of his work and personal judgment calls were made out of fear of repeating the case that spiked Kogami's cc. Akane is a fantastic inspector, but everything she does is motivated by a personal desire to see justice done, not Sibyl's. Mika on the other hand has no desire other than to see society redeemed by Sibyl's judgments; paradoxically this results in her being an incredibly incompetent inspector. The point is that she's filling her role to the tee and is being portrayed as ridiculously incompetent despite this, meaning the role itself is absurd and emphasizing the fact that Sibyl's objective "judgments" are just as subjective as those of any of the actually effective inspectors. Gino's rejection of emotion was entirely superficial, and that's why he was able to make any calls of his own in the first place. Akane never even pretended to keep things impersonal, and has become an impressive inspector as a result. Mika though has placed absolute faith in the Sibyl system, and the result is an extremely incompetent, confused inspector. If we look at how Sibyl operates from a societal perspective, it becomes clear that the most competent, successful people should be those who have the most faith in Sibyl's judgments. These are the people who are supposed to thrive and enjoy a healthy hue. Mika is the ultimate contradiction to this premise, and seems to be working in deep thematic symbiosis with whatever Kamui's goals are. Now that I've said that I think I can speculate that Kamui's goal, broadly speaking, is to invalidate hue judgments altogether: to deconstruct whatever supposedly objective relationship is supposed to exist between the hue and a person's character. The whole show so far seems to be driving at the actual subjectivity of Sibyl vs its perception as objective by society as the central conflict. Personally that seems like the most compelling place you could possibly explore in the world of psycho pass. Don't get me wrong, I don't like Mika either. But calling her incompetent, wondering why someone would bother to write an incompetent character, and then leaving it at that seems to miss the point IMO. Last edited by 鏡 on Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:56 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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ChocoBar1
Posts: 49 |
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This season is just as dumb as the first season or are still in the delusion that the first season was a well-written cop drama that taught us the importance of reading and gave us HYPEROATS.
Except none of the inspectors act the way she does nor treat their enforcers the same way. I know people like to bring up Ginoza every time but his behavior in the first season had nothing to do with what he was taught as an Inspector but his own disappointment in his father and his strain relationship with Kougami who became an enforcer, even in the midst of this he still had some doubts about the system, Mika doesn't have much of anything provided that explains her behavior she just seems to be written as a foil and that's it, she's not a good Inspector and the Sybil system doesn't give a shit about her. Last edited by ChocoBar1 on Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:57 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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kanechin
Posts: 447 |
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I thought scrappy wasn't ever in What's New just the first hollywood movie.
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Kaioshin_Sama
Posts: 1215 |
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Well I always found Psycho Pass to be a pretty solid decent show as is this season. The problem really like with everything Gen Urobuchi is involved in at one point or another is expectations become as hyper inflated as the merits of the show become overstated just because this fascination with the guy remains a major factor in the community. His involvement with anything really does present a problem and really is becoming one of the most ridiculous x factors in the anime community because...well lets just say said involvement with shows tends to overshadow the shows themselves just because he was involved in a couple of really popular shows a few years back and thus basically as soon as he leaves a project (a new wrinkle to his career that has become almost an expectation rather than a circumstance) it becomes an impossible endeavor for the rest of the staff because then it becomes all about trying to live up not to some amazing standard that Urobuchi sets as a writer but rather the show people imagine they would be getting if he were still involved with something. It's just so ridiculous, I don't know, I never feel like I want to be seriously involved in the discussions for any series he's been involved in anymore because it just fucks with everyone else's expectations and reactions so bad. There's something really unfortunate about anime all but being reliant on ones guys name to get instantly popular and praised though. Like I feel like it tells me that a fairly large noticeable number of people these days really aren't all that interested in the shows themselves as much anymore so much as being able to engage in hype atmosphere and semi-relevant factors. I feel like this guy in the long run has hurt the industry and it's fanbase more than he has actually helped it (though unintentionally of course) by bringing artificial popularity to shows and essentially holding them hostage when it comes time for sequels by backing out of involvement and thus causing their popularity and interest level to drop off massively as a result. Like people won't even give the shows an honest chance anymore as soon as his names not in the credits. I don't know the guys had some interesting stories in the past but it's like people forget his background comes primarily from writing for eroge and having very strange and very cynical ideas on how to handle character writing and outcomes to the conflicts they. Then you have Hope Chapman who is a curious little reviewer if ever there was one. There's something to be said for when I almost feel like a reviewer exhibits less maturity and insight than I do just by watching and experiencing a show for myself. I still feel like Theron Martin is the only reviewer that consistently just tries to do their job and remembers that they're writing reviews for a cross section of audiences that visit a website and thus tries to put themselves in other peoples shoes and figure how they'd feel about something as much as they have their own personal reactions. Also the guys just less prone to hyperbole like the others. Last edited by Kaioshin_Sama on Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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