Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works
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Bloodedge91
Posts: 13 |
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So? I dont see how Archer being an asshole makes him a bad character in any way. Rin is someone who is trying to prevent Archer from achieving his goal, as result she is an obstacle for him. Besides, like I said before there is nothing he could have done. Gilgamesh was there too when Shinji appeared. Fighting Gilgamesh when he has no master is suicidial. Archer is currently in a extremly weak state due to not having any way to replenish his mana. |
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HarriedHarriet
 Posts: 15 |
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Sorry it's taken so long to reply. First of all, to those who did respond to me directly, thank you for the kind responses. I honestly wasn't expecting such positive reception. This is the first time I've ever confronted a reviewer on their work directly, so writing that thing was nerve wracking. It's so difficult for me to speak out in general because I fear the consequences of expressing my opinions publically. I've seen so many other people with feminist views get harassed for talking about stuff that it makes it really difficult to say anything, even if it's not really related to feminism. Add my social anxiety on top of that, and well, you get the idea.
I would appreciate it, however, if I could get a response from JO or Miss Ekans. If it's because I was rude or insulting, please just tell me directly, and I apologize if that was the case. I'm not trying to troll, nor am I trying to hurt anyone. If I did something wrong, I'd rather be confronted on it that ignored, especially since I'm a feminist as well. I'm not your enemy. I want to talk this out, not just because it's bothering me on a personal level, but because it's important from both a feminist perspective and just in general to talk these things out. I will admit that I've been stressed by a lot of other things, and this was more or less just the straw that broke the camel's back. So many awful things have been happening over the past year or so, which bothers me a lot personally, and that builds up. That's why something minor like this bothers me so much. It's an accumulation of stress. I'm honestly crying right now I'm so frustrated with everything. I'd just go watch UBW to defuse, since I'm actually a few episodes behind (18 is next for me), but I'm so stressed over this whole stupid fandom war (yes, there's people on both sides that are being dumb) that I can't even click the play button because all I can think of is people still going at each other over all this. That's why I felt the need to write what I did in the first place when I would have normally kept silent as usual. I'm getting worn out by fandom (in general, not just the Fate fandom). I'm tired of people having these nasty arguments over anime and the like when there's so much worse in the world. I wish we could just discuss this stuff civilly without getting into big, stupid fandom wars over it, but it keeps getting nasty, and I hate that. I'm probably an idiot for caring about it, but it bothers me regardless. Can't we just discuss this crap without hating on each other? |
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jl07045
 Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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You're not an idiot, it seems you just haven't grown as thick a skin as many Fate fans and that's not a criticism. The fandom has been bickering among itself probably since Day 1. The reasons for that are numerous I think. One would be that the intricacy of the worldbuilding attracts a certain kind of fan that obsesses over such things and how everything glues together and feels like correcting everyone that overlooks some detail or has an interpretation that seems more unlikely to that fan. Reason two would obviously be online disinhibition effect, which shows up everywhere, not just in relation with TypeMoon. Thirdly, as I said, many Fate fans have grown accustomed to all this bickering, they don't give much thought about how they present their arguments, this is just normal for them. Nasu's style of storytelling is also a factor, it's long-winded, sometimes deceitful and ambiguous r dancing around the point, which comes of as pretentious or contradictory. That is not something anime fans are accustomed to and can create a lot of misconceptions no matter if you're a fan or not. Finally, obviously most of us are kind of nerdy here, with our issues and necessity to validate our opinions. For all the talk about interpretations and subjectivity of opinions, it's not that easy a concept to swallow when you're the one who's 'truth' is challenged by something. What makes it harder is that, as much as we would sometimes want otherwise, literary criticism is still subject to the rules of critical thinking so people have full rights to call out interpretations that miss evidence in the text or seem to not be very compatible with it since that would make such interpretations unlikely or at least less valuable than other ones. |
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dxthegreat
 Posts: 39 |
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It does seem as if ANN is picking reviewers who hate Fate/Stay Night on purpose, to incite heated discussion.
It also does feel like Fate/Stay Night hate (parallels in politics include christianity, feminism, patriotism, openness about homosexuality) is being used as a fashion statement. Someone on the internet did an in depth analysis of fate/stay night. found a shred of misogyny. Now the "professionals" jump on the hipster bus and this hate becomes a statement of "look how cool i am, i stand up for women", exacerbated even more by a gross exaggeration of how prevalent the theme is. What i read this review as is: "Oh man, Rin's boobs got touched. Sexual imagery. fudge you Nasu. Look how cool we (ANN) are. We are dissing Misogyny, the key theme in Fate/Stay Night. Anyone who disagrees? clearly you're just a woman-hater, not nearly as cool as us" Nevermind reviews on ecchi/fanservice shows where the reviewer simply ignores sexual objectification of women, like this one: animenewsnetwork.com/review/freezing-vibration/bd-dvd-the-complete-second-season-limited-edition/.88511 |
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jl07045
Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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Also to break away from this very serious world-changing discussion, I don't know why no one has posted this yet. Kudos to reddit I think.
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Caramichael
Posts: 114 |
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I completely understand what you felt HarriedHarriet, that's what i felt last week when i posted my first post ever.
I didn't read all the posts since its pretty much impossible for me now after finally reading this review. I just need to get out my opinion on this subject and I'm too angry to have the patience to read all these. First of all, Gabriella, I don't understand what you expected from UBW. You read the VN, you made us well too much aware of that through your reviews, so you know that this was made way before Zero. What do you expect from a source material that Urobushi LATER transcended? It's like saying The Hobbit is shit because everything is better made in Lord of the Rings! What is the point of an opinion like that? The Hobbit, just like UBW was made with a different point in mind, it was the stepping stone that another masterpiece in it's own right used to develop another masterpiece (Lord of the Ring for the first, Zero for the second). Of course it can't ever be in the same level! Of course it ain't feminist, not all authors are Urobushis! Did you expect that Ufotable would have gone back to ask Urobushi, could you remake UBW with a feminist touch? If you even watched Shirobako, you know that's not how it works, you should know after watching 50+ years of anime adaptation that none went as far to change the core material of their adaptation! So i ask you, what are you reviewing when you made us a lesson on feminism? When you brag like a fangirl putting a Fate/zero copy on our face? What transpires when you dare to say thing like "Look Fate/Zero sold more copies than a show that's not yet finished! That it's better? Thanks after 20 of your reviews we understood that. All I feel this review is a pure hate both of the source material and the anime that you feel fails to do anything to make you change your mind. Well, guess what, if you don't like red wine, it's not putting it in another container that will make it white wine! But the worst of that is that all that hate is making clouding your judgement. Sidenote: People, Hope, Gabriella and any others have the right to say what they want in their twitter, putting that out on the forum and saying like you caught them the hand in the jar is not a relevant point, it's their personal twitter, they say what they want on it. I agree however that it becomes problematic when it transpires in the work field. After that, it is my personal opinion, but I can understand the feelings of people when they feel that maybe Hope would not have authorized this review to be posted if she did not embrace its content. Oh and an editor would perhaps have watched for things like THE BIG HEAVEN'S FEELS SPOILER RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE. Or THE ONE ON THIS VERY SERIE ABOUT SHIROU AND GILGAMESH. Back on track, what disturbed me is that I have the feeling that Rebecca understood what the episodes try to do, but she dismisses them as "failures of the show". Example:
What you feel like a flaw of the plot, I feel like the point that the plot want to transmit us. "just because you're correct doesn't mean you're right" can seem to you like it isn't a good argument and that's right, it is not a statement to be answer to the problem. It is just the confirmation that Shirou heard him, he understand his point. But despite that he still will go forward. To take a Zero example like you love, it's like Kiritsugu dilema: You have a situation where you kill 200 to save 300. To save the many more the correct answer is to kill 200. The "right" (in the sense rightgeous) would be to try and save them all, even if that means having the strong possibility to fail. And that is what I felt this answer was, and how different it sets him from Kiritsugu. Kiritsugu set his feelings away to always choose the correct thing to do, like when he killed his teacher, but all that brought him was regret over the feeling that in the end, it wasn't right (And i think this point was discussed in the ANN Cast on Zero). Shirou on the contrary choose to embrace the right things to do if it means he won't regret. "Just because you're correct doesn't mean you're right" means that he is now aware of both path, and he voluntarily choose the right one, while Archer never had this chance, and just for that I feel that it isn't self-destructive stubborness. In the end, it is the triumph of emotion over cold reality, not forgetting that the whole situation is the result of this triumph of emotion. After all, the whole situation is due to Archers emotions toward his past self. Regret, but also pity on Shirou. That is how I felt. In general I have the feeling that Gabriella has her own feeling about how the anime is and does not even try to get a bit of hindsight about how it could be perceived by other viewers who did not read the VN like me. Last edited by Caramichael on Wed May 27, 2015 9:14 am; edited 2 times in total |
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jl07045
Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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Um, I think you've confused Gabriella Ekens with Rebecca Silverman.
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Caramichael
Posts: 114 |
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i don't know who it is just a mistake on my part =p Editing
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HaxDragon
Posts: 1 |
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Is the reviewer even aware of how unprofessionally biased she is?
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HughAlexander
Posts: 51 |
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Why would they though? Is having a male MC the issue? Is it that it's a VN so people look at it with bias? Besides Shirou the other main MC's in Fate/Hollow Ataraxia is Bazett, a female, does that automatically make it better? Witch On a Holy Night, is another VN by the author of Fate with 2 female main leads. Does the stigma of VN's still apply?
But it wasn't portrayed in a titillating way, the only things close to sexual violence towards women is to make you feel disgust for a certain character. Given how much Shinji is hated by everyone it is effective. No one is meant to look at those scenes and say "omg i'm getting turned on by this." They are meant to make you feel, "someone kill that bastard" or "fudge shinji." They also help characterize his inferiority complex.
This is the issue i'm having with what you've been saying. You have neither watched the show nor read the VN from what you've stated. So how can you make judgement on a character? As for "male insert character" i've never understood what that means. If you mean that it's a character I'd project myself upon, or i'd see myself as or something like that, how so? Besides having an ability like projection, there is nothing good about being Shirou. He's a tragic character. 1. He watched his entire family die in the fire 2. He watched his second father die when he was like 10, and also made the promise he'd be a superhero to him right before he died. 3. He knows future self failed and is trying to kill him. 4. He's borderline a high functioning sociopath and he has no sense of self. This is speaking about UBW alone, Heaven's Feel he's even more tragic than here. I don't get how Gabbie says he's healthier in that route given how much he overworks himself. Honestly I can't say much other than I don't like judgment made with superficial knowledge of the subject. I doubt you'd say the same things if you actually took the time to read the VN or even get through the show. To each there own though, l'm not here to change people's minds. |
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One-Eye
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Yes, Gabriella hates this show with a passion that's why she's been doing nothing but giving every episode an F. I mean just look at the scores: ep. 0-3, 5-7, 10, 15 = A- to A+ ep. 4, 8-9, 11-14, 16-18 = B to B+ ep. 19 = C ep. 20 = D See, only 2 episodes with a bad grade. Oh, wait you can't actually hate a show so much that you would give most of the episodes a bunch of A's and B's could you?
Yeah, we are all against censorship! Unless we disagree with someone, don't like what they are saying about our favorite franchise or they are feminists. Then we should just silence them. "Its a conspiracy!! ANN is purposefully enraging fans!!" Yeap, that must be what they are doing because I love nothing more than coming into a thread and seeing vitrol and personal attacks being lobbed at a reviewer to the point where I get fatigued and don't want to ever come back again. As far as the show goes its been a snore-fest for me more-so the second season. |
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Caramichael
Posts: 114 |
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The critic was not a problem when she aknowledged the other strong side of the production. The problem here is that the production didn't drop, it still is a very good example of fluid animation, maybe a bit slow in pacing sometime but all the critics she makes are only in regard of the plot and how another entire serie was better. If I wanted to hear praise on Fate/Zero I would go see a review of Fate/Zero. We start complaining because it has become to the point where half her review isn't a review anymore but encensing Zero and make a lesson on feminism. That's not what I want to read personnally.
Edit: And it's also precisely because we know she did good reviews before that we care. |
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Zupon
Posts: 26 |
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Don't compare Games of Thrones and 50 shades of Grey please. http://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/558447/50-Shades-Grey-sex-toys-condoms-handcuffs-cinema-workers-reveal-screening-secrets |
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Bloodedge91
Posts: 13 |
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The problem is not that she gave it a bad score. The problem is that her "criticisms" of the latest episode are ridiculous. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Placeholder.
Last edited by Zac on Wed May 27, 2015 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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I loved that pairing! But my point was a lot guys aren't down for yaoi, just not their thing just like the sexual stuff in FSN isn't my thing. Thanks for trying to keep the civility going too btw 
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