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The tone of the series hasn't changed one bit since the first episode.
Ange is dare I say Ange. Her bitchiness/independence is all there. A little bit more rounded but it's there alright. You will never ever see Ange as a white immaculate princess in distress again (as in the first 2 minutes of the first episode). It's not who she is and it's not who she will become. As for the sex jokes, people chill out. They're played for laughs. The only shocking scene was in the first episode, 2 seconds of all. That's it. The rest is comedy gold material and tragedy. A serious series this is not. Dramatic yes, serious no.

Cptn_Taylor wrote:

The tone of the series hasn't changed one bit since the first episode.
Ange is dare I say Ange. Her bitchiness/independence is all there. A little bit more rounded but it's there alright. You will never ever see Ange as a white immaculate princess in distress again (as in the first 2 minutes of the first episode). It's not who she is and it's not who she will become. As for the sex jokes, people chill out. They're played for laughs. The only shocking scene was in the first episode, 2 seconds of all. That's it. The rest is comedy gold material and tragedy. A serious series this is not. Dramatic yes, serious no.

so your show has comedy scenes in between an attack by dimension ripping mechs that destroy half your base and the destruction of the rest of it by the normal world. You punctuate the big reveals about the lies told about your system and the world you know with a sex comedy scene that seems ripped out of any harem show about a guy in a previously all female environment instead of deep and somber contemplation.

You can give me a sex comedy or you can give me a show involving dimension jumping and repressed human populations but if you are going to have both, you damn well pull it off well and this doesn't.

Compare that to the big scene in "When Supernatural Battles become Commonplace" where spoiler[Hatako's tension with Ando is slowly shown as he hangs out with Tomoyo more and more until she snaps with the best monologue of the last year and all while still framing the majority of the interactions in consistently comedic terms.]

One does it's job well and transitions us slowly into the shift and the other involves lesbians and dragon women.

Izanagi009 wrote:

You can give me a sex comedy or you can give me a show involving dimension jumping and repressed human populations but if you are going to have both, you damn well pull it off well and this doesn't.[/spoiler]

In your opinion. I see this sort of comment all the time. Anime quite regularly juxtaposes serious content without outright goofiness. Some people just aren't down with that and that's cool. Personally, it's one of the things I love about anime. Very few entertainment forms do this sort of thing as regularly as anime does.

The tone of Cross Ange has been consistent from the beginning. If you are not tuned into that sensibility, then you're not going to like it at any stage of the show's run. That doesn't mean it's being done badly - it just means you don't like that sort of thing.

I'm not quite sure why somebody would seek "deep and somber contemplation" from a show that involves people evolving into pollution eating dragons and a villain named Embryo-sama, but that's a whole other discussion.

Blood- wrote:

Izanagi009 wrote:

You can give me a sex comedy or you can give me a show involving dimension jumping and repressed human populations but if you are going to have both, you damn well pull it off well and this doesn't.[/spoiler]

In your opinion. I see this sort of comment all the time. Anime quite regularly juxtaposes serious content without outright goofiness. Some people just aren't down with that and that's cool. Personally, it's one of the things I love about anime. Very few entertainment forms do this sort of thing as regularly as anime does.

The tone of Cross Ange has been consistent from the beginning. If you are not tuned into that sensibility, then you're not going to like it at any stage of the show's run. That doesn't mean it's being done badly - it just means you don't like that sort of thing.

I'm not quite sure why somebody would seek "deep and somber contemplation" from a show that involves people evolving into pollution eating dragons and a villain named Embryo-sama, but that's a whole other discussion.

1. Fine, I suppose I would like it to be better contrasted than just shoved in my face and I admit that if a show is very over the top like Kill la Kill or Panty and Stocking, I can accept that juxtaposition.

2. if a scene is delivered with any sort of actual investment by the characters and their world and if the show is not the type to lampoon itself frequently, I expect characters to take a situation seriously when it calls for it and I think being stuck in an alternate world and being told that your world's system is founded on the theft of another is serious enough to warrant the characters not diving into antics so early.

@ Izanagi009 - I absolutely understand where you are coming from and you are very far from being alone. In fact, in a Western context, I'm sure more people would be in your camp than mine since Western entertainment doesn't "train" us to accept serious stuff juxtaposed with very juvenile silliness.

It actually took me a while to get used to this anime habit, myself. I remember one of the shows I watched when still a new fan was Corpse Princess which had really heavy stuff about death cheek by jowl with goofy antics from Keisei, a Bhuddist monk. It's jarring when you are not used to it and I can easily imagine viewers who never cotton onto that style.

I've seen it so often that I've gone from not quite sure what to make of it to actively liking it.

It's definitely done way better in some series than others, though; the way the Hellsing series - especially Ultimate - did it always irritated me, as did a lot of the time that it popped up in the Battle Angel Alita/Last Order manga, but I have found it more tolerable elsewhere. Here it doesn't bother me, perhaps because they don't bounce to quite such dippy extremes of silliness or use SD insertions, and I don't find it at all disruptive in Yatterman Nights, either. (As for AgK, well, that was a series you could rarely take entirely seriously even when it was trying to be serious.)

Still, I understand completely now what you're talking about, Inazagi009, but as Blood- has alluded to, that's more a style point than just doesn't set well with some viewers than an actual flaw.

(I would also add that something akin to this has been done in American movies. It was a distinct trend in later '80s/90s action movies, especially those starring Arnie.)

Mecha Odyssey wrote:

If you re-read my post, I wasn't truly upset at the show, more so the community.

It starts with "What annoys me the most, I was reading the comments attached to the video....."

If you re-read your earlier post, then you will realize you spent at least as much space talking about your opinion as you did talking about disgust at the comments of others. It isn't that I missed that part. It is that I didn't see a point at the time in putting a whole lot into discussing the opinions of people not even present.

Mecha Odyssey wrote:

People were accusing people that liked this show many of rude things that I won't repeat. Now, the same, one can argue, worse experience happens to a male..... and it's all good, comedy central, have a laugh.

That crap has been happening on the internet so much recently that I'm sadly now use to seeing it. Just read those comments and realize that those people are incapable of anything but a knee jerk emotional reaction and know that you should just dismiss their opinions completely in the future.

As for why there isn't an outrage here, there are probably people outraged at this, but it just isn't the same incredibly vocal group that creates a storm when something is done to a woman. The current cool thing is to jump up and shout misogyny. Drawing attention to the fact that men get portrayed the same or that there are cases where the woman ended up better off isn't in line with the agenda. Honestly, I think a lot of those outraged at the start of this series probably wouldn't be happy with this scene if you went and directly asked them individually. It is just that there isn't going to be some massive rally against it.

Mecha Odyssey wrote:

The key difference in the two events though, this scene serves no purpose. Tusk's character (nor Ange) doesn't seem to be affected by the experience and it seems like things will "reset" next episode (I'm hoping things don't reset and they do bring it back up).

Not really. The scene where Ange was actually sexually assaulted in ep 2 had no purpose. The other girl dies and absolutely nothing comes from the sexual assault scene. The only thing that mattered was that it was Ange's fault she died.

Mecha Odyssey wrote:

Ange at the end of the episode:
"My boyfriend just got violated by a group of sexually curious females and IT'S TOTALLY HIS FAULT FOR LETTING IT HAPPEN!, He's a jerk!"

Sounds like victim blaming to me. Plus the fact that the community at large seems to be accepting and fine with it, just makes me sad at this point.

Except that I don't see Ange actually blaming him at alll. If she was seriously blaming him and angry with him, then that would be different.

Key wrote:

It's definitely done way better in some series than others, though; the way the Hellsing series - especially Ultimate - did it always irritated me, as did a lot of the time that it popped up in the Battle Angel Alita/Last Order manga, but I have found it more tolerable elsewhere. Here it doesn't bother me, perhaps because they don't bounce to quite such dippy extremes of silliness or use SD insertions, and I don't find it at all disruptive in Yatterman Nights, either. (As for AgK, well, that was a series you could rarely take entirely seriously even when it was trying to be serious.)

Still, I understand completely now what you're talking about, Inazagi009, but as Blood- has alluded to, that's more a style point than just doesn't set well with some viewers than an actual flaw.

(I would also add that something akin to this has been done in American movies. It was a distinct trend in later '80s/90s action movies, especially those starring Arnie.)

I suppose that it is a style choice and I admit that I didn't mind it in Kill la Kill, Panty and Stocking or to use American media, Kill Bill. I suppose it's a matter of preference since to me, the previously mentioned media had already indicated their clear departure from reality so a tonal shift seems less jarring to me.

Something about Cross Ange doesn't indicate that clear departure to me so I can't accept that shift and combined with the sexual context and the precedent on how it was executed in the past, I'm just tired of it.

Other than the relationship squabble after the opening I really enjoyed this episode.

spoiler[
This was an interesting way to turn this into a "school sports festival" episode. Salamandinay must have been really bored to have restored so much and to have so much ready sports appropriate clothing for each sport change. I can understand her having custom wear for herself already, but I find it funny to think she got her people to make custom Ange wear (some items had their names on it) beforehand. The insert of the HARO bowling balls, the toys of Lacus, Kira and Athrun when they were playing the claw game, and the Zaku/Char's Gelgoog/Gouf/Dom twister games were nice treats. I like how this played into how they have been friends/rivals/lovers though the ages. Which proves they haven't forgotten it about and looks like might still get explained.

A couple things caught my attention, which could just be an issue with translation, not totally sure.

1) The council referred to Aura as "mother Aura" when previously Sala referenced Aura as male. Did Sala lie earlier about Aura? At the end of that scene she looked to be in deep though about their words and the call to arms.

2) At the bowling alley Sala said they were going to recapture Aura. From what was said in the last episode, shouldn't she have said "recsue"? Unless Aura was not originally a free being on the true Earth.

Finally, Vilkiss is now a kin to Gurren Lagann. Willpower alone can now repair damage. I hope this gets explained later though.]

SilverTalon01 wrote:

Mecha Odyssey wrote:

The key difference in the two events though, this scene serves no purpose. Tusk's character (nor Ange) doesn't seem to be affected by the experience and it seems like things will "reset" next episode (I'm hoping things don't reset and they do bring it back up).

Not really. The scene where Ange was actually sexually assaulted in ep 2 had no purpose. The other girl dies and absolutely nothing comes from the sexual assault scene. The only thing that mattered was that it was Ange's fault she died.

I disagree. The Ange we have now is the sum of all the bad experiences from when she was removed as princess. So yes, all the assaults, the teasing by the girls (her uniform being chopped up etc...) and the eventual reconciliation with them leads to her being stronger now.

SilverTalon01 wrote:

Mecha Odyssey wrote:

Ange at the end of the episode:
"My boyfriend just got violated by a group of sexually curious females and IT'S TOTALLY HIS FAULT FOR LETTING IT HAPPEN!, He's a jerk!"

Sounds like victim blaming to me. Plus the fact that the community at large seems to be accepting and fine with it, just makes me sad at this point.

Except that I don't see Ange actually blaming him at alll. If she was seriously blaming him and angry with him, then that would be different.

The times she blamed him:
1) In the medical room, she took up the instruments and proceeded to "punish" him.
2) At the festival when Tusk walked up beside her and she, initially, gave him the death stare.
3) In this episode, she tied him up under the basis of not trusting him because of what happened.

Blame doesn't have to be actual words coming out of a person's mouth. Body language and action say just as much, maybe more.

Noticed the ff. cameos:
1. In the auto racing competition, the scenes are reminiscent Hayato Kazami and Naoki Shinjyo battling each other in Future GPX Cyber Formula. (down to the cars and racing helmets) It's no coincidence that Fukuda directed that series as well.

2. Athrun Zala and a Zaku (?) can be seen as a price in the UFO catcher game.

3. In the Twister game, Zaku heads can be seen.

Well, My reaction to the episode was a resounding WTF?!?!

Seriously, why did we have to have a sport competition in our mech show involving alternate dimensions and a literal god. Code Geass can get away with it since our characters, when not in battle, are actual students. I know you need some levity after what was learned in the last episode but this feels like an ass pull for comedy.

As for the Gundam Seed references, I don't even care anymore. I could work anger up for the opening and Tusk but now it's just a constant barrage that makes me even more nitpicky about why Cross Ange makes me bash my head.

As for some other things that make me red:
-So we now are dealing with some level of sentience and regeneration with the Vilkiss. Why am I not surprised by this magical regenerating mech.
-Oh good, more pratfalls with Tusk. I admit that Sala's reaction to the scene is interesting but it plays more like a straight man to a groan-worthy trope.
-Wait so the tail is a slight erogenous zone. Most of the time, bitting an erogenous zone would lead to pain and not moans. Does Sala have a bitting fetish or was this just contrived fanservice.

Edit: a small question that is not anger based has come up; why are there so many mecha with singing or idols. Macross codified it, Gundam has it's share of singers, and now we have two songs tied to the mechs in this show.

Izanagi009 wrote:

Well, My reaction to the episode was a resounding WTF?!?!

Seriously, why did we have to have a sport competition in our mech show involving alternate dimensions and a literal god. Code Geass can get away with it since our characters, when not in battle, are actual students. I know you need some levity after what was learned in the last episode but this feels like an ass pull for comedy.

Yeah I know, how dare those writers treat us viewers as stupid. Comedy in a tragic series. More so comedy of the self referential type. Oh the crime. What were they thinking ? Confused

Quote:

As for the Gundam Seed references, I don't even care anymore. I could work anger up for the opening and Tusk but now it's just a constant barrage that makes me even more nitpicky about why Cross Ange makes me bash my head.

The same old Fukuda, always trying to promote the anime he worked on. So bad. I'll write him a letter of condemnation. Anime is serious stuff. No kidding around.

Quote:

As for some other things that make me red:
-So we now are dealing with some level of sentience and regeneration with the Vilkiss. Why am I not surprised by this magical regenerating mech.
-Oh good, more pratfalls with Tusk. I admit that Sala's reaction to the scene is interesting but it plays more like a straight man to a groan-worthy trope.
-Wait so the tail is a slight erogenous zone. Most of the time, bitting an erogenous zone would lead to pain and not moans. Does Sala have a bitting fetish or was this just contrived fanservice.

You nailed it. So much fanservice, and the worst type of. Not mecha fanservice, but lowly ecchi immoral stuff. Bleaaaaaah. Oh god, who watches such a depraved series anyway ?

Quote:

Edit: a small question that is not anger based has come up; why are there so many mecha with singing or idols. Macross codified it, Gundam has it's share of singers, and now we have two songs tied to the mechs in this show.

A plot to sells CDs. You know Japan one of the few countries where physical music CDs still rule the roost.

Cptn_Taylor wrote:

Izanagi009 wrote:

Well, My reaction to the episode was a resounding WTF?!?!

Seriously, why did we have to have a sport competition in our mech show involving alternate dimensions and a literal god. Code Geass can get away with it since our characters, when not in battle, are actual students. I know you need some levity after what was learned in the last episode but this feels like an ass pull for comedy.

Yeah I know, how dare those writers treat us viewers as stupid. Comedy in a tragic series. More so comedy of the self referential type. Oh the crime. What were they thinking ? Confused

the presence of comedy itself is not the issue, it's the execution. You can have your comedic moments, just don't make it feel like it's a stapled on addition

Quote:

As for the Gundam Seed references, I don't even care anymore. I could work anger up for the opening and Tusk but now it's just a constant barrage that makes me even more nitpicky about why Cross Ange makes me bash my head.

The same old Fukuda, always trying to promote the anime he worked on. So bad. I'll write him a letter of condemnation. Anime is serious stuff. No kidding around.

It's more an issue of immersion. I am expected to believe that somehow, this world has had the Gundam franchise around and that Seed is the most well-known. It's as world breaking as having the arrow to the knee gag in Final Fantasy.

Quote:

As for some other things that make me red:
-So we now are dealing with some level of sentience and regeneration with the Vilkiss. Why am I not surprised by this magical regenerating mech.
-Oh good, more pratfalls with Tusk. I admit that Sala's reaction to the scene is interesting but it plays more like a straight man to a groan-worthy trope.
-Wait so the tail is a slight erogenous zone. Most of the time, bitting an erogenous zone would lead to pain and not moans. Does Sala have a bitting fetish or was this just contrived fanservice.

You nailed it. So much fanservice, and the worst type of. Not mecha fanservice, but lowly ecchi immoral stuff. Bleaaaaaah. Oh god, who watches such a depraved series anyway ?

The fanservice is just stupid. The trope of pratfalls or barely clad women playing twister is so overplayed that I can tick the time. As for the whole thing with the tail, it felt like a stretch more in place of Monster Musume than Cross Ange; And Monster Musume is so comedic and not serious that I can accept something like that. Having it in this, not so much. It would be like sticking Marida Cruz in a playboy bunny outfit; completely tone deaf.

Quote:

Edit: a small question that is not anger based has come up; why are there so many mecha with singing or idols. Macross codified it, Gundam has it's share of singers, and now we have two songs tied to the mechs in this show.

A plot to sells CDs. You know Japan one of the few countries where physical music CDs still rule the roost.

You know having the openings and endings sung by idols or famous people is good enough given Nana Mizuki's popularity. You don't have to literally cram two duets into your show.

As for an overall comment, please try to be a bit more serious. I can take a joke or two but this set of comments makes me think you don't take this or any show with any gravitas.

Izanagi009 wrote:

Edit: a small question that is not anger based has come up; why are there so many mecha with singing or idols. Macross codified it, Gundam has it's share of singers, and now we have two songs tied to the mechs in this show.

Macross is exactly why. It established the precedent (and a very popular one at that!) for mixing music and idol singers with mecha, one that has been periodically drawn from ever since. Besides, the idea of music being used to trigger magical and/or supernatural effects is, at the very least, centuries old and probably extends back into antiquity, so it being specifically applied to triggering a mecha's special abilities is only a natural progression.

Quote:

As for an overall comment, please try to be a bit more serious. I can take a joke or two but this set of comments makes me think you don't take this or any show with any gravitas.

Why would one want to take this series with a lot of gravitas? Most of the series is pretty ridiculous, so taking it too seriously will only frustrate you.

Key wrote:

Izanagi009 wrote:

Edit: a small question that is not anger based has come up; why are there so many mecha with singing or idols. Macross codified it, Gundam has it's share of singers, and now we have two songs tied to the mechs in this show.

Macross is exactly why. It established the precedent (and a very popular one at that!) for mixing music and idol singers with mecha, one that has been periodically drawn from ever since. Besides, the idea of music being used to trigger magical and/or supernatural effects is, at the very least, centuries old and probably extends back into antiquity, so it being specifically applied to triggering a mecha's special abilities is only a natural progression.

Good point, that actually makes a lot of sense

Quote:

As for an overall comment, please try to be a bit more serious. I can take a joke or two but this set of comments makes me think you don't take this or any show with any gravitas.

Why would one want to take this series with a lot of gravitas? Most of the series is pretty ridiculous, so taking it too seriously will only frustrate you.

Even the most ridiculous shows have some stakes or investment involved; given the situation we are in, i'm pretty sure we are not supposed to just go along for the ride.

Hell, Kill la Kill was crazier than this and I was still invested in the events going on.

Also, I'm a man who will admit to having a stick up his a** so this is a long running problem

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