Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: CROSS ANGE Rondo of Angel and Dragon
|
Goto page Previous Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
SilverTalon01
Posts: 2402 |
|
|||
Nominally a mech show? Funny, they spend a lot of time in mechs for it to only nominally be a mech show. In fact, I bet you that they spend more time on mechs in the first 3 episodes of this than Turn-A Gundam did in its first 3 episodes. I guess that isn't really a mech show either. And obviously everyone who watches this and doesn't instantly hate it is a misogynist and loves to see / gets off on women get raped and suffering... I'm not even really sure how to respond to such ignorant, sensationalist drivel...
Murder you say? Absolutely no women were murdered in Cross Ange (so far). Do you even know what that means? There was even only 1 woman who was even killed by another person so far, and that bullet was fired by a police officer / guard in response to the drawing of and showing of intent to use a lethal weapon (a sword) which wouldn't qualify as murder pretty much anywhere. As for the pilots, you're just putting your sensationalist spin on things. Its women being brutally mutilated and killed because they're all women. If you think its dumb or sexist for only women to be present so they can milk it for fan service, I would still disagree but ok, fine. But the show clearly wants to use gory shock factor as an appeal... well now it has to be a woman they use for that because that is all there is to choose from. It isn't like there are men there but only the women are being brutally mutilated and killed. Nothing else to the suffering? Wait really? Stories centered on characters triumphing over suffering isn't something Cross Ange thought up. The 'anything else' you are looking for is everything else. In almost every the case of fiction, the entire point of suffering is to watch some one [at least try to] overcome it. You can be offended by the presentation of the suffering, think it is dumb and cliche, or whatever else you want to feel. However, there is something else too it. Though I will give you that the writing has some short comings that they basically just hand wave... |
||||
|
||||
|
Rextyn
Posts: 42 |
|
|||
Wow, so amazingly co-incidental that a show exists where there are only female characters to be degraded and torn apart. I mean it's so convenient that no degrading violence can be aimed at male characters since there aren't any. Funny that. |
||||
|
||||
|
mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
|
|||
Then should I be enraged by all those old ww2 teams where only males were killed by enemy bullets? How about AoT, should I call foul at the fact that ratio of males from the survey corps eaten or killed by titans is so high when compared to females? How about all those jail movies where only males are brutalized? |
||||
|
||||
|
SilverTalon01
Posts: 2402 |
|
|||
Well mangamuscle covered part of what I was going to say, so I'll just focus on one part, "degrading violence." What violent part that happened to the female pilots was degrading exactly? Yeah, women were brutally killed by dragons. I don't see how being shot through by a dragon's laser beam thing, having limbs torn off then eaten, or dying from having your mech swatted down like a fly is degrading. |
||||
|
||||
Izanagi009
 Posts: 464 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA |
|
|||
|
Hi, first post on this forum after some time looking around it
I have mixed opinions on this show. I completely hated the first two episodes and saw the framing of the two major scenes as horribly tasteless since I know that it's possible to frame those scenes without focusing on the ass and panties. I used this analogy on the Escapist when I talked about this show: if you were to show a scene in a movie where a woman is being strangled, what effect would the scene have if the shot was focused on the face, the breasts or the whole body? Typically, the face and body shots are used for more dramatic or emotional. Shots of breasts can work but typically the writing has to be pretty strong to avoid tonal dissonance. Sadly, the writting here is not good, at all. We have the contrivances of "I played a sport, so I know how to fly" or "I can't dress myself but I am above average in all combat areas" so I don't trust the writing here to be up to par. I also did not like Ange at all; I get that you are disbelieving of your situation but the less you complain and act all haughty, the less likely something bad will happen like with the second episode. The third episode did solve a good chunk of my issues. For starters, they actually made some connection to the scene in the second episode instead of it being a "big lipped alligator moment" like the first episode scene. The fight was well animated and dramatic. Ange actually grew a spine and started to comprehend her situation. Most importantly, they showed that, while still having a fanservice shot in a hospital bed, how not to make it seem overly dissonant. Yes, we got underboob, yes we got people kicking her but the scene was much shorter and while I dislike the fanservice shot, it did not detract as much from the fact that she got her shoulder kicked. I still have two problems. One is Vivian, the little lollipop licking girl of the cast. She reminds me of Q-vier from Valvrave and that means horrible stupid tone-deaf comments and pure annoyance. The second was the description of Zola. They say that she's a caring leader who looks after her team but what I and I presume the audience saw was a sex-crazed woman who was slightly abusive or at least liked to sexually harass her teammates. Bit of a conflict there I think. Regardless, I will continue watching but if they have another scene like in the first two episodes, I will be the first to damn this show to the bowels of hell. |
||||
|
||||
|
DRosencraft
Posts: 665 |
|
|||
|
I would suggest that everyone go and read up on child soldiers in Africa, or the many ethnic clashes and genocides in Africa or other regions.
I believe when Theron is saying that the abuse is being used for character building, Theron means as a mode of the story, not as an intent of the characters. The fact is in these real-life ethnic conflicts, where such trivial justifications are given for hating others, sexual assault, rape, is a tactic used to punish enemies as well as break in those abducted to be soldiers in the conflict. Remember, Ange didn't sign up to join this fight. She is entirely and completely conscripted into it. Her commanders/superiors are shown to think not of some bright future or that "one day" dream of peace or whatever. They are entirely convinced that fighting is all that their lives are for. As was said in ep. 2 and 3, it's kill or die for Norma. If this series wants to handle this subject matter with any seriousness more than the relatively blase manner prior series have, certain scenes have to be a bit graphic, so I see nothing wrong with those scenes that received the most controversy. I think it's a little harsh to be so critical of Ange's behavior. While her actions are extremely reprehensible, I do think there is room to have more sympathy for her. She has been raised from birth as a noble and to believe that not only are Norma evil, but not even human for 16 years. The main events of the first three episodes cover only a few days of her life. To expect that she would suddenly change or open up to the idea that she's a Norma too, or that she should accept her situation, is asking for a lot more than should be expected of a character in her situation, and frankly in my view a common error of other series in this genre. Look at it this way; if all she was going through was at the hands of a clearly pegged enemy and not a group of anti-heroes, her defiance to this point would be deemed an adulatory aspect, her finally breaking and being melded into the fold a sad or even depressing close to the chapter. For us on the outside looking in it may seem different, but if you are trying to relate to a character and see things through that character's eyes, there wasn't any real reason for her to change any earlier than she did, and arguably she could be justified in having remained aloof and obstinate even longer. We talk about how "real" people would act, but most people in a situation similar to hers would be dead already, not even making it this far. |
||||
|
||||
|
誤称
Posts: 549 |
|
|||
|
MOD EDIT: POST CONTENT RAZED FROM EXISTENCE FOR MONSTROUS AND INEXCUSABLE RACISM
|
||||
|
||||
|
JacobC
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
|
|||
|
Thanks to the content of the above post which was an absolutely disgusting racist personal attack on another member of the forums, I am keeping hawk's watch on this thread. (Sorry, you can't see what it originally said, it has been documented for moderation, but I'm not giving it any platform in this thread.) If I see anything that could remotely be construed as a personal attack or exclusionary language in this thread, and I mean anything, the thread will be locked immediately and punitive measures for harassers will be enforced.
Consider this discussion firmly babysat thanks to a few completely rotten apples in here. Sorry. If you can't act like adults, this is how it's going to be. I will be watching every single word you say and I better not see anything personally targeted about race, gender, or otherwise in here. I hope we're crystal clear. |
||||
|
||||
Engineering Nerd
 Posts: 898 Location: Southern California |
|
|||
|
I was shocked...I mean totally shocked to see this show is actually doing remarkably well on BD/DVD pre-orders. I mean…sure, consider this show features numerous famous seiyuus (that means considerable boost from Event Tickets inserted in early volumes) and production-values are pretty good (although I do believe sunrise could do better, but no complaints); I do think this controversial show suddenly becomes a solid contender for 10K+ seller is somewhat surprising.
Can't wait to see how people would react to this show's eventual commercial performance (I am honestly neutral on this). |
||||
|
||||
|
MidoriUma
Posts: 130 |
|
|||
Maybe you should take that anger out on the people who actually posted whatever you're so upset about, instead of venting it at the general readership? I would argue that an adult would be able to distinguish between offending parties and those participating respectfully. As for the show, I rather enjoy it. But then again, I'm kind of sick of those saccharine slice-of-life series that we always have too much of. And no, I have yet to see anything glorifying rape or other such things previously attributed to this show. I could go on about the thematic juxtaposition between Ange's old and new life, along with other thoughts on the plot setup, but I'll probably either get shouted down or simply banned for not toeing the editorial line here. Cross Ange is bad, 'mkay? |
||||
|
||||
Kitsunelaine
 Posts: 123 |
|
|||
Then why did you make your post? |
||||
|
||||
|
JacobC
ANN Contributor
Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
|
|||
That's exactly what I did, though. You are accusing me of something that literally only happened in your imagination. Look:
I didn't blame you, or "everyone," I blamed the responsible parties, only one by name, and a couple unnamed implicitly, because it was getting to be a problem. You just "feeling like I blamed everyone" is based in nothing and pretty irrelevant to the problem needing to be solved, isn't it? I ain't got no patience for the "NOT ALL" today. If you didn't start the fire and no one's saying you did, why try and deny that it was a problem that needed to be extinguished? Don't harass the firefighter, I'm literally just doing my job here. It's a waste of everyone's time to whine that it shouldn't be put out in this way or that way because you didn't start it. |
||||
|
||||
|
Raneth
Posts: 271 |
|
|||
|
Bringing the discussion back around to the actual review...
Theron's review puts forward the the idea that the content is justified by its narrative purpose in the story. And on one level, that's true--works can have objectionable content, like rape or murder, if they serve a narrative purpose. Rape can even be shown in some detail in order to be shocking or upsetting and to set a dark tone or mood. Shocking murder can do the same (think of the grisly deaths in Attack on Titan). But the presentation of that content as titillating material is not justified by the narrative. The camera in AOT does not linger on the survey corp's shapely asses or bouncing breasts as they are being munched by titans. The justification of pornographic material is inherently that viewers should get off on it. The treatment of the scene in episode 1 was not meant to be shocking or to create anger in the viewer on the behalf of Ange, it was meant to arouse. That is why it's objectionable, and, as Theron said, "trashy." My reaction to being expected to get off on a character's degradation was instant disgust and dismissal of the show. From the review, it sounds like the rest of the show is equally trashy. A C+ grade does not imply that the remaining content is worth wading through material I hate. It's softcore humiliation porn presented with a narrative--great for those people who like it, but pretending its anything else at this point is grasping at straws. Last edited by Raneth on Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
||||
|
||||
Rederoin
 Posts: 1427 Location: Europa |
|
|||
Its only controversial in the US. The OP already sold 40k in wk1(which is related more to Nana than the anime itself, just a sidenote). So it already has some form of success. Not to mention we'll probably won't get numbers on how much the merch will sell. |
||||
|
||||
|
jroa
Posts: 537 |
|
|||
I think both of you are actually making too many assumptions. Sales for the OP theme shouldn't be confused with sales for the show. That really doesn't indicate anything, one way or another, beyond the fact that the singer is famous and the single had various other songs on it. The only party who gets much of anything out of that result is the record company for the individual artist. I also think it's incredibly premature to assume that the series will sell over 10,000 copies when the pre-order points have not reached anywhere near that figure. It's far too soon to make uninformed projections of what its final standing will be, not to mention that it's very likely the first volume will be the odd one out and sell significantly more than the true average for the series, as happens with many different anime. The rest of the volumes will probably not match that number, whatever it turns out to be. In other words, I think you are jumping to conclusions. Nor does that mean there isn't any controversy. I've read posts and tweets in Japanese that are quite critical or mocking about the series. I won't speculate about why that is the case, but not everyone in Japan is as positive towards this show as you seem to imply. |
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group