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INTEREST: Toshio Okada Rips Apart Gundam Reconguista


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AsherFischell



Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 327
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:43 pm Reply with quote
ChocoBar1 wrote:

Eh, Reccoa said it herself, she's a thrill chaser. She had no beliefs or philosophy like you're stating so how is it out of character, people who say she abandons AEUG for plot convenience were not paying attention to her actions throughout the show but I guess the fact that a character is written to be abominable makes him/her a bad character anyways.


She had no beliefs or philosophy? Who's the one who doesn't pay attention to the series that they watch? Let me be clear. Reccoa is repeatedly demonstrated to be a kind, decent person before her random betrayal. Her being a thrill seeker doesn't change that, nor would it change where her allegiance lies, as being a thrill seeker is just one aspect of her character.

Tomino didn't write her to be abominable. In fact, he attempts to humanize her by having her show concern about the fates of her former comrades, and that's even after she aids in that attack to kill all those people. I'm sorry, but repeatedly accusing people of not paying attention in order to distract from your refusal to back up your statements doesn't make for a persuasive argument.


Last edited by AsherFischell on Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 2402
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:46 pm Reply with quote
ChocoBar1 wrote:
YumeHunter wrote:
In my opinion Build Fighters is a lot better than G-Reco.

A pandering crapfest is much better than an actual product of labor? This is the current anime fandom folks and you people wonder why they keep making fanservice and harem anime sense they appeal to the lowest common denominator


I don't think its fair to judge G-Reco on the limited amount that has aired, especially since Tomino's last gundam took a while to get started but ended up being good.

But Build Fighters was better than AGE. Trying something new doesn't always mean the result will be higher quality than pandering.

I'm not sure BF is truly pandering either. Their efforts to appeal to the older fans who already liked gundam is clearly pandering. However, I think them turning gundam into a kids show with a plot and characters that kids can easily follow is definitely a product of labor.

Cptn_Taylor wrote:
Character design looks like E7 because the character designer is the same in both shows.


No **** Sherlock. I know why they look how they do. That doesn't make them look anymore like old school gundam designs though does it? What I don't get is why they went with new designs + retro animation instead of retro designs + retro animation if they wanted that old school gundam feel. It isn't like some one had a gun to Tomino's head and told him he had to use a certain character designer.
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ryanvamp



Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 416
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:10 pm Reply with quote
CoreSignal wrote:

ryanvamp wrote:
I am enjoying Reconguista....
I agree it can be quite confusing and SOME of the dialogue is clunky; the story is also presented in a very unfriendly (for the viewer) manner

I find it hilarious that you say this about the show,yet you think Eva 3.33 is terrible, oh, the irony.



Because the way I see it, everything is flawed and I just weight the pros and cons after watching something to reach some sort of subjective score. G-Reco definitely has issues, but I find several traits that make me enjoy the show.
Eva 3.33 was absolute trash imo because I literally couldn't find anything to enjoy about it with the exception of decent production values (which I didn't even enjoy cause of the horrid pacing and the annoying characters. Btw I did like the first two movies, so I wasn't expecting 3.33 to be THAT awful).
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CoreSignal



Joined: 04 Sep 2014
Posts: 727
Location: California, USA
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:18 pm Reply with quote
Fronzel wrote:
Remember the episode the main cast spent making sure fighting didn't break out between them and the Zeons, and the next episode immediately had them fighting without explanation? Or how they suddenly feel an intense need to kill Scirocco even though he never actually did anything for the whole series? Or when Char got the opportunity to tell the world about how the Titans were fascists and he instead said some hippie thing about how nobody should live on the Earth? Or when Camille opened his space suit while in space?

That show is bananas.

This is why I said strangely bad, there are so many bizarre parts of Zeta gundam that I can't decide if the show is actually bad or just something beyond my comprehension. Then again, I thought the original Mobile suit gundam was good, so I have no idea if Tomino is a bad writer or a mad genius.

AsherFischell wrote:
ChocoBar1 wrote:

Do you people never pay attention to the series you watch?

Reccoa made it clear - she talked about how she's lived on whole life on the battlefield and now she only feels alive when she's risking her life. She's a thrill junky. spoiler[That's why she took the mission to sneak onto Scirocco's ship. By the time that happened, she was already thinking of leaving the AEUG because she didn't feel like she was doing enough.]


Do you always have to be as condescending as possible when you respond to someone? She's a thrill junkie, so she wanted to risk her life because she felt she wasn't doing enough? She was already risking her life in the first place and being with Scirocco wasn't any more dangerous than being with the AEUG. Don't pretend like her leaving wasn't mostly about Char rejecting her and also don't pretend that her magically falling in love with Scirocco at first sight had nothing to do with it.

I don't know ChocoBar1, it's been awhile since I've rewatched the show, but I agree with AsherFischell here. Sure, Reccoa was a thrill seeker but love at first sight with Scirocco? Apparently, Scriocco just screams bad boy. And then you have what Cptn_Taylor said about her and Char.

ryanvamp wrote:
Because the way I see it, everything is flawed and I just weight the pros and cons after watching something to reach some sort of subjective score. G-Reco definitely has issues, but I find several traits that make me enjoy the show.
Eva 3.33 was absolute trash imo because I literally couldn't find anything to enjoy about it with the exception of decent production values (which I didn't even enjoy cause of the horrid pacing and the annoying characters. Btw I did like the first two movies, so I wasn't expecting 3.33 to be THAT awful).

Ok, thats fine, I was just saying that Eva 3.33 also has confusing dialogue and unfriendly storytelling as well. But it sounds like you hated everything else in the movie anyway.
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ChocoBar1



Joined: 09 Nov 2011
Posts: 49
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:05 pm Reply with quote
AsherFischell wrote:
ChocoBar1 wrote:

Eh, Reccoa said it herself, she's a thrill chaser. She had no beliefs or philosophy like you're stating so how is it out of character, people who say she abandons AEUG for plot convenience were not paying attention to her actions throughout the show but I guess the fact that a character is written to be abominable makes him/her a bad character anyways.


She had no beliefs or philosophy? Who's the one who doesn't pay attention to the series that they watch? Let me be clear. Reccoa is repeatedly demonstrated to be a kind, decent person before her random betrayal. Her being a thrill seeker doesn't change that, nor would it change where her allegiance lies, as being a thrill seeker is just one aspect of her character.


You? Because apparently you didn't even know she was a thrill seeker and only joined the AEUG as a means to excite herself not because she believed in the cause or what she said. Nothing in Zeta Gundam suggests that she is a "decent" person or else you're foolish enough to think that Jerid was a decent person just because he had a few moments in the limelight to flesh him out. It's not "random" if you actually pay attention to her mannerisms, the fact that she's always the first to rush into danger or how she tries to cling to Char, she's a superficial human being.

Quote:
Tomino didn't write her to be abominable. In fact, he attempts to humanize her by having her show concern about the fates of her former comrades, and that's even after she aids in that attack to kill all those people.

It's like you pretty much want to ignore what she said after her betrayal but considering you didn't even know about the other side of her this is not to be surprising.

Quote:

I'm sorry, but repeatedly accusing people of not paying attention in order to distract from your refusal to back up your statements doesn't make for a persuasive argument.

Says the person that has not back up a single statement and is just going off a random tangent
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SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 2402
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:07 pm Reply with quote
CoreSignal wrote:
I don't know ChocoBar1, it's been awhile since I've rewatched the show, but I agree with AsherFischell here. Sure, Reccoa was a thrill seeker but love at first sight with Scirocco? Apparently, Scriocco just screams bad boy. And then you have what Cptn_Taylor said about her and Char.


I think what Choco said does support why she wasn't super loyal to AEUG, but I agree the actual specific reason she switched sides was because she fell for Scirocco and where as Char refused to see her as a woman, Scirocco did.
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AsherFischell



Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 327
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:30 pm Reply with quote
ChocoBar1 wrote:

You? Because apparently you didn't even know she was a thrill seeker and only joined the AEUG as a means to excite herself not because she believed in the cause or what she said. Nothing in Zeta Gundam suggests that she is a "decent" person or else you're foolish enough to think that Jerid was a decent person just because he had a few moments in the limelight to flesh him out. It's not "random" if you actually pay attention to her mannerisms, the fact that she's always the first to rush into danger or how she tries to cling to Char, she's a superficial human being.

It's like you pretty much want to ignore what she said after her betrayal but considering you didn't even know about the other side of her this is not to be surprising.


I'm not about to comb the episodes in order to take screencaps, so I'll just post her bio from the Gundam wiki:

"A warm and generous woman, she is also very tough and independent, serving as a mentor to AEUG newcomers and a valued adviser to its core leadership. Reccoa does however have a streak of restlessness that causes her to seek out dangerous missions, such as acting as a scout for the planned full-scale assault on the Earth Federation's Jaburo base.

As the war rages on, Reccoa's female identity begins to clash with her identity as a soldier. She begins to seek comfort from fellow pilot Lt. Quattro Bajeena, although he proves unable to provide her with the affection she seeks. The war eventually introduces her to Paptimus Scirocco of the Titans, causing her to be drawn in by his charisma and ideology. Following her defection to the Titans, Reccoa is forced to abandon her morals for the sake of staying close to Scirocco, causing her to lead a mission to gas an entire colony and killing all its inhabitants. But despite committing such atrocities, she still shows some care about her former comrades, for she was shocked seeing Apolly Bay die in action, and even expressing shock when learning about the deaths of Katz Kobayashi and Henken. Eventually Reccoa comes to believe that all men only use women to fulfill their own ambitions, dying angry and bitter in a battle against Emma Sheen. "

Once again, you're putting way too much stock in her being a thrill seeker. Her being a thrill seeker is a single attribute that is independent of her other attributes. Just because someone is a thrill seeker doesn't mean that they're a superficial person and neither do her feelings in regards to Char. She was physically and emotionally attracted to Char and I'm pretty sure simply being attracted to someone doesn't make her superficial.

Quote:
Says the person that has not back up a single statement and is just going off a random tangent


What random tangent would that be? You mean when I'm mentioning specific parts of the show or trying to delve into the character?
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8459
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:40 pm Reply with quote
When, exactly, did this become a debate on the merits of Zeta Gundam? (Which is brilliant, by the way.)
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Cptn_Taylor



Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 925
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:44 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
When, exactly, did this become a debate on the merits of Zeta Gundam? (Which is brilliant, by the way.)


Don't take it too personally penguintruth. After all anime ja nai. Laughing
Now lets get back to the regular programming.
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CoreSignal



Joined: 04 Sep 2014
Posts: 727
Location: California, USA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:29 am Reply with quote
SilverTalon01 wrote:
I think what Choco said does support why she wasn't super loyal to AEUG, but I agree the actual specific reason she switched sides was because she fell for Scirocco and where as Char refused to see her as a woman, Scirocco did.

That's an interesting way to look at it.

penguintruth wrote:
When, exactly, did this become a debate on the merits of Zeta Gundam? (Which is brilliant, by the way.)

penguintruth, I would say something about that, but Zeta Gundam has already derailed this thread enough'Smile'
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Brutannica



Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 256
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:57 pm Reply with quote
Kaioshin_Sama wrote:
lol we're printing blatant hate articles now and trying to direct opinion in a certain direction. Keep on keeping on with that rather obvious bias ANN. You're no different from the general blogosphere.


I have no personal opinion about or agenda regarding this series; I'm just translating what Okada said.
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Tony K.
Subscriber
Moderator


Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 11293
Location: Frisco, TX
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:49 pm Reply with quote
Please stop derailing this thread into a Zeta discussion. You can argue about that all you want in the Anime forum in its own thread. Keep this focused on Reconguista.

That's your only warning. Any more non-Reconguista posts will be deleted from here on out.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6253
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:06 pm Reply with quote
@Tony K: Thank you, the off topic banter about Zeta Gundam started to get annoying and unnecessary.
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DRosencraft



Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 665
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:32 am Reply with quote
I hadn't seen this series yet, but now I'm interested. I think I will appreciate what Tomino is doing with the story, because so few series nowadays do it anymore. By that I mean taking time to unfold a story rather than throw one at the screen.

What Okada seems to be advocating is the modern viewing habits where people aren't really interested in the story as much as in seeing something happen. Where it used to be that a story could take its time unfolding, everyone is rushing about wanting action, even though structurally on average series are still the same length as they ever were.

If Okada represents that newer view, Tomino seems to reflect that older one. I'm sure a lot of people like Okada's view. I personally think I'll approve of Tomino's direction more than Okada's.
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