Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2006-10-27]
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kolibri
 Posts: 712 Location: Vancouver |
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Hear, hear. I never liked Ed in the dub, and I tried for quite a few episodes - just like you say I think he lacks the soul and intensity. I will check out the last episode dubs after that recommendation though, but two episodes out of 51 won't actually make it a stellar performance  I think actually that the whole FMA dub was fairly average - not bad or offensive but just fairly bland (I actually really liked Aaron Dismuke as Alfonse though - great idea to actually use a child for this). No offence meant, just my personal opinion of course.
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hanachan01
 Posts: 504 |
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I totally agree with Kouji said on yaoi fanfic. Took the words right outta my mouth.
I emailed Vic and asked him about the accusations brought against him about slash fic. I uploaded it as an image here, but I'll put it here as well.
I hope that clears some things up about what he said 
And I loved his Ed, but his performance in Full Metal Panic as Kurz Weber is my absolute favorite of his. And I love Romi The only dub performance in FMA tha tactually went above the Japanese was Caitlin Glass as Winry, simplay because her voice wasn't squeaky like Megumi Toyoguchi's. I think the dub and Japanese performances can't really be compared though, since every actor interprets a character in a different way, including Vic and Romi, Aaron and Rie, Travis and Ohkawa, etc.
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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I thought Vic did a terrific job in the dub of FMA. I don't think anyone who could say he had no remorse or heart in the series bothered watching the dub, or at least watching it with an open mind. He is in pain from his past mistakes, that's obvious, but he's also motivated by it to resolve those past mistakes and Vic portrayed that balance perfectly. I'm sorry he wasn't some whiney, sniveling crybaby but it wouldn't have fit the character.
Of course, some people just dislike dubs, won't give the dub a chance even though they pretend they do or convince themselves they are. This time though popular opinion is on the dub fans side for once as FMA is widely regarded as one of the better dubs in recent years. |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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MeggieMay
 Posts: 607 |
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Ok, I had to go back and re-read this article because I couldn't figure out why it was discussing yaoi fanfiction and Vic Mignogna. I have to admit I was surprised to find out Vic was actually on topic for the discussion while yaoi fanfiction wasn't exactly
 .
Now I wasn't surprised by Vic having problems with slash, seeing I've read his "day job" is as a Christian music producer. I'm actually more surprised to find out he's fairly tollerent on the subject - he just doesn't want it shoved in his face, which I've always thought was a reasonable and fair thing for a actor to ask fans not to do if there is some aspect of fandom they don't like and do not wish to know/hear about. That said, I've seen actors in the past tear a fandom to pieces over this subject and it wasn't even on moral or reilgous grounds (they just didn't like slash and wouldn't tolarate fans being involved with it  ). So what Vic is asking for on this subject really isn't wrong and I'm glad he's as cool as he is with it.
As for Vic thinking slash fanfiction is a "perversion" - well as he said it's his opinion. Plus I've heard others have that issue in the past with ALL fanfiction, be it sexual or asexual. IIRC, the late Marion Zimmer Bradley forbade any fanfiction based on her works that wasn't OKed directly by her. She believe the things she created were hers and hers alone and she would even take legal actions to stop fanfiction based on things she wrote if she caught people writing it. This author and other fiction creators are like this as well - some authors/creators just don't believe in allowing others to use their creations. The laws back them up on this but most creators/authors just don't care about the issue or don't have the time or money to purse fanfiction writes, as long as they aren't losing money (and some see it as free publicity, as well ).
Anyway, I looked up the word perversion and after being redirected to "pervert" I think Vic is using the word more in the "5. to turn to an improper use; misapply" definition over the "2. to lead astray morally" sense. However, because most fans who know anything about Vic's background know he's religious, and the fact the word tends to be used a lot in U.S. English as a regious/moral term, most jump to the conclusion he's casting a moral disparage on the subject when he may just be saying he doesn't feel this sort of fanfiction is in keeping with the true meaning of what the author(s) created. Anyway, seeing someone emailed Vic about this and has posted his reply, I think this thread might need to get back to the topic that was actually covered in the article. Which was, why do fans worship voice actors. Well, I've found that phenomionon going on in all fandoms I've been over the years, be it a actor, creator, or writer. I really don't think there is a simple answer to the question but I do know that people have written text books on the phenomionon. IMO I think it's a quirk of human nature to start "worshiping," or almost worshiping, the people who create the things they love. I think the phenomionon has been around since time immortal but with the advent of mass media and the internet it has become a lot more noticiable that people do it. So that's my thought on this subject .
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ArielTsuki
Posts: 178 |
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But many series don't has any sexual anything in general, other than crushes. I don't think some authors even pay attention to that sorta of thing that much. I mean if that's the case, then even any pairing in fanfiction and fanart, fanon and canon, is a desecreation to the artist's work. I think that many people fail the whole point of fanfiction anyway. It is to show your favorite characters in a series in situations that you DON'T see in the anime/manga for pure fun. Granted I seen some atrocities in fanfiction, but there ARE slash fanfiction that have the characters IN character as there are many non-slash ones (even the canon pairings) that are OOC. And people, sexual orientation =/= personality trait. I seen this use the whole "it's out of character" bit in argument for so long that it just pisses me off to no end. Sexuality does not influence personality unless you let it influence it. I think it's the part of the gay community that is most prolific in media make their orientation into their identity that people think this. Plus, there are authors who actually *shock* appreciate the fanmade stuff. Like someone on this thread said, imitation is the highest form of flattery. Geez, even Masahi Kishomoto makes winks at his fans who like SasuNaru at times. It's all in good fun. (and BTW, no one even argue against SasuSaku and NaruHina pairings where they're also FANON pairings [although I've seen alot of Naruto fans treat them as CANON pairings]. Naruto, as of yet, have no official pairings. However, the closest of becoming official is ShikaTemari and NaruSaku.) And seriously, there is nothing wrong of liking characters together for they look good together, het, yaoi or yuri. Not my cup of tea, but there isn't. And the ones who like any couple for how they look together is a minority in all fandoms. I think most of the yaoi fangirls who say " MALE No. 1x MALE No. 2 R SO HOTTTT!!!" usually think they're hot for more than their looks and how they look good together. And I'm so DAMN tired of the bullcrap that yaoi/BL slash fandom don't love the series and characters as they are. A vast majority of us do, that's why we're fans in the first place. When I do write fanfiction, I try to put myself in the character's shoes, using how their canon personality, how they think and react to things that was shown in the manga/anime series. There has been scientific studies that show a very small number of people are completely straight or gay, it all it takes it's a certain person and situation that can make you think otherwise. We can choose to ignore it or not. Why not apply to fanfiction? I don't like OOC stuff unless it's for a parody fic. However, it's only the BL/yaoi fandom gets the fall for this. No one ever blames the yuri or the het fandom (and if they do, it's RARELY). I mean I won't prolly get a peep if I said I love Seeshomaru x Kagome as if I said I love Miroku x InuYasha (which both pairings don't make sense IMO). So the whole descreation of the artist's work because I happen to like a certain pairing because it's yaoi is a slap to my face and full of ignorant garbage that I'm tired of. Please. I want those people to admit it's makes them uncomfortable to see that some people prefer to see a couple of characters in a homosexual context. And that to stop acting like they know what the manga-ka feels. And that, as with the yaoi fangirls, aren't entitled to the series. We're fans because we love something that isn't entitled to do anything in return. I guess how we're living in an age of sel-entitlement, that meaning gets lost. I don't think the Japanese fandom is like this like the fandom outside of Japan (especially in the Western countries). I would've appreciated if Vic didn't sign the thing because it's a porno doujinshi than it being a yaoi one. Anyway, although I greatly prefer Romi Park's performance, Vic's performance was one of the few that was actually good on the show. I expected the English dub to be at least good but was seriously disappointed that it wasn't. As good Vic was, that show still had an inspiring and underpar dub overall. |
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ichido reichan
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Well, that is just in america, in Italy and germany Berserk has a "naruto kind of" following and they pay in euros, so the japanese companies keep bringing the volumes. The english edition was extended to by-monthly because of the fans and it's a fair good buy, actually is one of the best selling dark horse manga with hellsing, so the berserk fans are kinda low profile but berserk is one of the elite examples on how good an artist can be and how powerful a story can be narrated. Gantz, on the other hand, I think it will never be licensed here in america, the story just go on a little basis and for me , that title is like a videogame, full of stages and situations that might keep it running for a little while, is an awesome manga, worth of buying complete in japanese, but it has a little chance in the american market world |
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Richard J.
 Posts: 3367 Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis. |
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Just to repeat: No one is saying slash fanfic should be banned. No one is saying that you should stop reading it or that you are somehow evil because you like it.
All anyone on here has done is state PERSONAL opinions on the subject. We are not trying to make you who enjoy yaoi, slash, or whatever else feel inferior or hated. All any of us said was that we, personally, did not like that type of fan made story because we felt that most of it is badly out-of-character stuff.
I have the right to say "slash isn't something I like because blah, blah, blah." You have the right to say "I like it because yadda, yadda, yadda." No one here has said anything about banning it or making it go away.
If you think you have problems as a slash/yaoi fan, just see what happens if you try to support THAT pairing. The comments that would bring would be far more viscious than anything that's been said here, as yaoi is far better received than lolicon. Not equating yaoi and loli, just saying that a yaoi fan will get comments like "okay, fine, just don't talk to me about it" while saying your a loli fan will get you something more like this: "you freaking pedophile! You should be shot!" There have been several very long and very interesting to read threads on that subject in the past. At least one of them was in an Answerman column. (Epic thread too.  )
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FlamingPinecone
 Posts: 131 |
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RING RING RING...click
hello, Flamingpinecone speaking! Oh voice of reason hi! Do what? do I know why a thread about answerman has devolved yet again into a mere semantics quibble? why no i don't, i was just in here to inquire what the longest show to air in america because was, i'm thinking positive dig? like maybe naurto has a shot here, second to say Pokemon or dragonball Z? whats my opinion on fan fiction you ask? as an guy who onced tried to date a fan fiction queen and read some of her stuff i must admit Harry Potter becoming a homo was a bit jarring. would I read more? course not. would i vote for any sort of law banning of her stuff? possibly being it involves minors but probably not because it's not my problem. do I think she got the characters wrong and did them no justice accept in the pants? why yes. Thanks this has been an insightful discussion with the voice of reason and chillitude. fawhoooosh! |
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thecactusman17
Posts: 167 |
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Zac, I have the perfect remedy for that bad case of Twilight repetisus:
Remember the good old 1980s? When things were so uncomplicated? I wish I could go back there again And everything could be the same. I've got a ticket to the moon Ill be leaving here any day soon Yeah, I've got a ticket to the moon But Id rather see the sunrise in your eyes, baby Electric Light Orchestra -- Ticket to the Moon |
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daxomni
 Posts: 2650 Location: Somewhere else. |
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Ahh, Nadesico. I really enjoyed that series, but a few minutes of the horrible movie just about killed all my enthusiasm for any future work under the same name.
You can't really deny that there is a difference. We tend to have non-union "B" list part-timers over here while Japan and some other countries have more mature VA markets. In addition, I can assure you that I'm no "Japanese wannabe" and Japan is just about the last place I'd want to live among first world nations. |
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garylisk
Posts: 4 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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The rant this time was ridiculous. It hits home for me because I am one of those fan translators that do such an "unprofessional" job by leaving honorifics in a translation and such.
And my main outrage on this subject should be the same one that any fan of anime should be thinking. Or rather, if they are not thinking it, they should agree with me as soon as they read it. And that is this: Why is something "professional" hmm? What makes it professional? By definition, it's just something that is done as a profession, but that is not what the term really means these days or in this context. So what makes a certain way of doing things professional? Well, I think it's all subjective. I personally find that in my experience, anime fans tend to enjoy Japanese - be it language, culture, what have you. Anime gives them something that they had not had before. If you translate things so rigidly, you're going to lose something. The dialogue is going to somehow change what what it was supposed to be into something cold and lifeless. When I translate, I don't just translate - I write a script. And yes, things have to be taken on an individual basis all the time when you translate something. But honorifics? I think it's a no-brainer usually. There's very few cases where I feel they should not be invluded in the subtitles. Honorifics in a dub? Well, I'm not sure the dub world is ready for that. The dub world is apparently barely ready for good acting. (Which is another thing that made me laugh from this column - the big defense of dub VA's! Most of them are talentless, and that's a big reason why they are dubbing anime. And if they are not talentless, then the director is REALLY doing something wrong. But hey, I always know that if I want to hear some totally emotionless script reading, I can watch an anime dub.) Without this becoming a sub-dub war, and returning to the original intent of this post to make one more point - Eventually, I think that some anime company someday, either a currently existing one or a new one that rises because of it, is going to truly cater to the fans and have success that the other companies will look at and say "Hey wait, what?" - I think a few of the companies out there are on the right track, for sure. Just remember, folks. It's all subjective, it's hard to pin down one right way to do things - So rather than complain when something is done the way you weren't thinking it should be done, try expanding your hirizon and seeing the heart of why it was done that way. Don't just dismiss it as lazy right off the bat. And Answerman - You seem so pompous, it's kind of hard to swallow as being sincere. They say "Speak with authority, and you will be believed." Sad but true. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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You're a little confused. "Professional" means you get paid to do what you do and you do it for a living. You are a hobbyist, someone who translates in his spare time. If you get hired by a company to translate things and get paid to do it, you're a professional. There isn't any grey area about that. You seem to want people to concede to you that what you do is just as "professional" as what actual pros do, and that isn't the case. You're a hobbyist. There isn't anything wrong with that, and sometimes, hobbyist translations are better or more accurate than professional ones, but trying to get people to change the definition so you can be called a "professional" when you aren't is just... well, silly, and a little narcissistic.
You think it's subjective because that suits your needs, not because it actually is subjective. You just don't want anyone calling your translations "amateur", because that has a negative connotation and "professional" has a positive one.
I knew this was coming. "I'm a fansub translator, and also, all anime dubs suck!". How predictable, and tiresome. So not only are you calling into question actual professional translations and suggesting your way of translating things is better, you apparently also are a master of performance critique and know so much about acting that you can roundly dismiss an entire genre of voicework. And I'm supposed to be the pompous one?
If you can't see the irony in this statement following your little rant up there about dubs, then there isn't anything I can do for you.
I might be a little pompous and arrogant sometimes but you really take the cake on that one, buddy. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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Re: honorifics, I say if you wanna cut em in the dub re-write, go for it. Let THAT appeal to mass-market, but since everyone says fans can have their cake & eat it too with DVDs, I say leave the -sans and -chans in the sub. One SPECIFIC reason I say that is that even though it may not be commonplace, it's not unusual to EVENTUALLY have a character note the honorific used by another character. Either "you're disrespecting me" or "why are you using X" or even "you're a fake because you use 'san' and the real one uses 'kun'". And that sort of thing is not always obviously coming in episode (or chapter) 1. For manga, if it's unflipped, you should definitely leave the honorifics, but that's just my opinion.
Re: American VAs & Japanese guests For American VAs, PART (not all, PART) of it is probably due to the fact that a large number of fans do not consider themselves the best "socially" speaking. They either think themselves outcasts, or geeks or something else. VAs are (first and foremost) ACTORS and they know they are meeting with people who BUY THEIR MATERIALS. As such, of course they are pleasant and kind and friendly. I don't mean that as "they're all two-faced hypocrites", I mean that as they'll meet you talk pleasantly and sign autographs. But then SOME fans think "OMG, I'm BFF with X voice actor" even if X va doesn't know you 2 weeks later. Again, I'm not saying you're a bad person or they're tricking you, I'm saying they're friendly and nice but at the end of the day the convention is a "work" weekend for them when it's a "vacation" for the fans. There are numerous VAs that like anime and I'm sure plenty of them have friends (besides other industry types) on the fan circuit, but they also have numerous "hangers-on" who THINK they are friends but are instead just people they're hugging and baby-kissing at the con. As far as J. guests are concerned, I agree that they should be more accessible and often WANT to interact with fans. That said, cons spend BIG sums of money to bring them over and often YEARS of time trying to negotiate a visit. As such, the LAST thing they want is random fan doing something that freaks them out or makes them swear off American cons. This can not only lose you THAT guest, but also OTHER guests if they talk. American guests are usually running freer because of the language barrier and also, most go to enough US cons that 1 nutcase will be shrugged off as "1 nutcase". With Japanese guests, the 1 nutcase MIGHT be shrugged off, or they MIGHT be seen as "Americans are psycho". And, of course, the J guest MIGHT have 50 things negotiated into their visit. They might be wanting to sign 100 autographs and then spend time visiting and sight-seeing. The American guests are almost all more laid-back. Scott McNeil for example might sign 100 at the autograph session and 50 more in the hallway. This is important because for a large number of fans (yeah, I'd include myself for the right guest) "meeting the guest" means asking for an autograph more often than not, so you try to keep people from being harassed. For guests from both countries I think there are questions of personal space that need to be considered as numerous fans don't seem to respect that. J guests sometimes get "tougher" escorts because (again) it's easier to explain to Vic Mignognia why random fangirl made a glomp attempt, whereas J guest might wonder why you couldn't keep the "crazy person" from jumping on them. This is especially true if you consider the TRUE "worst case scenario" stories. It really is a matter of "one bad apple ruins the bunch". |
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garylisk
Posts: 4 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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Whoa, step back, who said anything like that?
I rather enjoy the dubs for: Cowboy Bebop, Goldenboy, Tenchi Muyo, Most any Miyazaki film, Akira (both times, atually), Burn-Up, FLCL - I could keep going. You have apparently had a lot of nasty run-ins with fansub translators to sit here and make these assumptions about me from one post. If I hadn't mentioned the fact of being one, and instead just claimed to be a fan - what then? Are fans who prefer the original dialogue also predictable and tiresome? Because that's what I am - The fact that I translate has nothing to do with it, and I preferred it in Japanese way before I knew any of the language.
And defensive, too. Of course, it could be that we clash because we're both a bit arrogant. Problem is, we probably have each other figured totally wrong. Most assumptions you just made about me were incorrect. But I only made one assumption about you, and apparently it was right, at least a bit. But I can't blame you. In your position, you probably hear it all, and get pretty sick of it. |
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