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Nico877



Joined: 18 Jun 2014
Posts: 21
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:23 pm Reply with quote
Percival King wrote:
And each one of Miyazaki's movies goes for roughly $20. Do they seriously think that that an episode of Denki-Gai holds more value than a Miyazaki feature?


Great argument. In Japan, the worst anime ever to get a BD release in singles costs as much as your favourite anime ever to get a BD release in singles. You're also talking about mostly 20 year old movies.
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:14 pm Reply with quote
@Nico877

It wasn't an argument, it was an expression of outrage. Pony Canyon's prices really are outrageous. If you want prices on more recent anime check TRSI or other retail websites. Newly issued anime on Bluray is being issued for about $70 MSRP and $50 retail for 12 episodes. This for series substantially more popular than anything Pony Canyon has issued to date.

Yes it is their property and they can charge anything they want for their second and third rate series. I on the other hand can choose not to pay those prices. And no, I will not be pirating the shows either.

It remains to be seen if they can sell enough to remain in business at those prices.
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WTK



Joined: 28 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:32 pm Reply with quote
Now listed @ TRSI...

Garakowa -Restore the World- Collector's Edition Blu-ray + CD + GWP - 67 minutes - $89.98 - 4/10/16
Quote:
This item will come with a gift with purchase to be announced at a later date.

This collector's edition comes with a special box character drawing by the original character designer Kantoku, a digipak illustrated by main animator Toshie Kawamura, an 88 page special booklet (72 pages official booklet + 16 pages design archive and more), and CD containing: "Sendan Life" by Remo (Yumiri Hanamori), "Insomnia" by Dual (Risa Taneda), and "Hello" by Dorothy (Ayane Sakura).

Special Features: Promotional Video collections.

Spoken Languages: Japanese, English subtitles.


Rokka -Braves of the Six Flowers- Collector's Edition Blu-ray/DVD 3 + CD + GWP - 96 minutes - $89.98 - 4/10/16
Quote:
Customers who pre-order Collector’s Edition 3 by February 29th will also receive a replica key frame set.

NEW BONUS! In addition to the original GWP offer, customers will also get one ORIGINAL animation key frame while supplies last!!

Special limited offer! Customers who pre-order all three Collector's Editions (volumes 1-3) are eligible to receive an episode storyboard done by the director, Takeo Takahashi. Eligibility for this special limited offer lasts until the final cut-off date of the regular gift with purchase for Collector's Edition 3, which will be in February 2016 or while supplies last.

Contains episodes 9-12 plus original soundtrack volume 3, a deluxe booklet, a double-sided cover illustrated by Sayaka Koiso, and 4 collectible character cards.

Special Features: Clean Ending version 3, Promotional Video versions 1 and 2, and Commercial Collections.

Spoken Languages: Japanese, English subtitles, Spanish subtitles.
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Percival King
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Joined: 20 Dec 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:46 pm Reply with quote
Nico877 wrote:
Percival King wrote:
And each one of Miyazaki's movies goes for roughly $20. Do they seriously think that that an episode of Denki-Gai holds more value than a Miyazaki feature?


Great argument. In Japan, the worst anime ever to get a BD release in singles costs as much as your favourite anime ever to get a BD release in singles. You're also talking about mostly 20 year old movies.


I wasn't trying to make a point, I was venting. But as you're so quick to blind defense, a point you shall have:

-The Wind Rises
-When Marnie Was There
-The Secret World of Arrietty
-The Tale of Princess Kaguya
-From Up On Poppy Hill

Five Studio Ghibli movies, from the last five years. Each and every one of them are available for purchase, as of this very second, for under $20 on Amazon. Quality Disney releases with a plethora of extras, and their usual star-studded casting for the international dub.

So once again, I ask this question: Is a single episode, sub-only, of ANY one of PonyCan's shows worth more than one of these films?

This is United States of America. Not Japan. When you try to bring over Japan's economics here, it doesn't [expletive] work. So I suggest you attempt another argument at justifying this nonsense.

There is a difference between being a fan, and being a fanboy. The former actually has something called self-respect. The latter does not, and blindly buys whatever they shit out and attempts to justify it through whatever means.

So there. The argument you wanted to see, that I initially didn't want to preach. This forum has no shortage of people repeatedly attempting to drive home this point, and no shortage of blind sheep who shell out whatever crappy show they release with an absoludicrous price tag. And with that: End scene.

Alan45 wrote:
@Nico877

It wasn't an argument, it was an expression of outrage. Pony Canyon's prices really are outrageous. If you want prices on more recent anime check TRSI or other retail websites. Newly issued anime on Bluray is being issued for about $70 MSRP and $50 retail for 12 episodes. This for series substantially more popular than anything Pony Canyon has issued to date.

Yes it is their property and they can charge anything they want for their second and third rate series. I on the other hand can choose not to pay those prices. And no, I will not be pirating the shows either.

It remains to be seen if they can sell enough to remain in business at those prices.

That's about the only reason why people don't care that much about PonyCan. Their shows really are second-rate at best, so when they release something of their first-party, it doesn't feel like a loss or a cockblock.

No, no no. Cockblocking is AoA's speciality. But I have noticed they've dropped their prices a wee bit in the last few years. ....By like no more than five dollars. I guess...progress is progress, even if it's at a snail's pace and really makes absolutely no impact whatsoever?
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geishageek
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:53 pm Reply with quote
Their titles may be second rate to you and Alan, but for me, Yuki Yuna, Cute High, and Etotama were must buys for me. I enjoyed the hell out if all 3 of those shows and could afford to pay for them, so I did. Sure they are some of the highest priced domestic titles I own, but their value to me was worth the price of admission. Your opinion matters not to me since I am their target audience, someone who enjoys the shows they put out and can afford their releases.

Just because you think the prices are too high and the titles second rate, does not mean everyone feels that way. I support Ponycan, and AoA when they have a title I want and can afford to buy. I also import from Japan so the sticker shock is not as bewildering to me as it is for others. I was also very late in adopting to the half season sets back in the day as I felt they were an inferior product to singles for my perceived value, and I had a lot less disposable income back then.
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Percival King
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:20 pm Reply with quote
geishageek wrote:
Their titles may be second rate to you and Alan, but for me, Yuki Yuna, Cute High, and Etotama were must buys for me. I enjoyed the hell out if all 3 of those shows and could afford to pay for them, so I did. Sure they are some of the highest priced domestic titles I own, but their value to me was worth the price of admission. Your opinion matters not to me since I am their target audience, someone who enjoys the shows they put out and can afford their releases.

Just because you think the prices are too high and the titles second rate, does not mean everyone feels that way. I support Ponycan, and AoA when they have a title I want and can afford to buy. I also import from Japan so the sticker shock is not as bewildering to me as it is for others. I was also very late in adopting to the half season sets back in the day as I felt they were an inferior product to singles for my perceived value, and I had a lot less disposable income back then.


That's cool, and I want to say I respect that, but here lies the issue: When you support them, you support their strategy. And that, in turn, encourages their business model. So what if I truly love a series that recently aired, a series I really want, only to find out it was getting released by AoA with their exorbitant price tag? You would actually share some of the blame, because if they business model didn't work, they would license it out to another company.

A pretty good example of that is Durarara. I, like most everyone here, loved Baccano! Loved the f*ck out of it! It was depressing as hell to learn that AoA would claim the reins of the Blu-ray release instead of Funi. Thankfully, it wasn't overpriced, but it DID get an insanely limited print run. Right now, if you want that series on Blu-ray you're expected to shell out upwards of $300 from eBay scalpers. And any business model that encourages that deserves a steel pipe up the ass.

But I digress. I was going back to Durarara. What's the one thing that Baccano over here had that Durarara didn't? For starters, an actual decent localization. There literally hasn't been a single AoA dub so far that actually hit the mark. Sure, you can accuse Funi for using the same actors over, and over, and bloody over again - but they ARE an in-house studio! And you can't blame them for miscasting. ....Caaaaan't really say the same for AoA. Durarara is probably the biggest case of them having a really shitty translator on the job ("Kazutawno" instead of "Kaztano", and "Nebra" instead of "Nebula"). It's Engrish pronounced literally. And of course the miscasting for the roles (like all the teenagers sounding like 30 year old people). Thing is, most of those actors could have pulled it off....which is the final point. AoA doesn't even remotely get ADR direction.

And then we have the other problems piling on. The price. The extremely limited print runs. The fact that they're exclusive to a single retailer.

I like to assume that most of us here really support the anime industry. I know for a fact you do. The problem is, companies like PonyCan and AoA don't support us. They don't even respect us enough to put in any effort. And when you buy from them under those circumstances, it bites us right back in the ass.

There's nothing unreasonable or sensationalist in this argument. Sure, you could say it's a "premium item" and compare it to Apple, or Lamborghini....but here's the thing: A Lamborghini is a motherf*cking Lamborghini. When you pay upwards of a million dollars on one, you're getting a two million dollar car. This....this is just an anime show. And unless the show is penned by Hayao Miyazaki, scripted by Drew Goddard, directed by Guillermo del Toro, and animated by Madhouse with a Redline-level budget, you're paying $300 for a $100 show - and the folks at AoA are just giggling at that notion.

Here's the thing though - this is all history repeating itself. Once upon a time, Sony attempted to cash in on the anime market with Blood+. It was a show most everybody loved. Yet, their release had the exact same problems - overpriced, crappy localization, limited release. People scooped it up before Sony decided they didn't want such a small market. But, Sony being Sony, they're refusing to license it out to someone else, and now we are paying the price. They're not re-releasing it, and neither is anybody else. The longer PonyCan and AoA stay in business, the more titles they'll release themselves. When they eventually go down, they'll take those titles with them.

The damage has already been done with the stuff they put out. Continuing to support them simply endangers future titles. Don't be a fool, support not the ghoul! And that's all I'm gonna say on that lol.
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WTK



Joined: 28 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:27 am Reply with quote
In regards to Garakowa -Restore the World-

https://twitter.com/PONYCANUSA/status/686761311355576320
Quote:
Just a quick note: this is the same as the advertised Import Edition for anyone confused. (>editing on twitter)


https://twitter.com/PONYCANUSA/status/686762022852145152
Quote:
As in, the link up at rightstuf for the pre-order, is the actual import edition?

Yes, that's the "Import Edition" as it's being called. http://garakowa.us/product/


https://www.facebook.com/PonycanUSA/photos/a.462616820568298.1073741829.364868513676463/561397007356945/?type=3&comment_id=561417564021556&reply_comment_id=561425664020746&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R0%22%7D
Quote:
is it gonna get a dub?

This release will not include an English dub.
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One-Eye



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:47 am Reply with quote
Percival King wrote:
No, no no. Cockblocking is AoA's speciality. But I have noticed they've dropped their prices a wee bit in the last few years. ....By like no more than five dollars. I guess...progress is progress, even if it's at a snail's pace and really makes absolutely no impact whatsoever?

Nope, depending on the title its been actually increasing. Drrr!! X2 is more expensive for 1/2 the episodes than the first Durarara!! BD LE. Fate/Zero BD LE's cost $290 (not import version) for whole show and its going to cost around $360 for F/SN UBW. Bakemonogatari was reasonably priced with nice extras, their current singles strategy for the rest of the series gives you less and charges more per episode. Anime prices in general have been going up the last 2-3 years, but whereas its been mostly 1-2 bucks for many regular editions from other companies AoA is a different story.

Quote:
You would actually share some of the blame, because if they business model didn't work, they would license it out to another company.

Hey, now this is how flame wars start. You have a total right to vent your frustration and it ticks me off when others try to shut that right down (I share that frustration too). But people who buy these products have that right to do so as well and spend whatever they want on them. Don't blame collectors for buying what they want--blame the companies who don't give any of us a choice, who are creating scarcity and creating false categories (BDs are for collectors DVDs are for everybody else) that put all of us in this position.

As far as PonyCanyon I tend to agree with Alan none of these shows so far have been top tier for me (that's for me others may disagree). I might have been interested in picking up Yuki Yuna and Rokka because they did have some unique qualities, but not at those prices and I don't like their packaging.
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:59 am Reply with quote
@Percival King
Quote:
You would actually share some of the blame, because if they business model didn't work, they would license it out to another company.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. The consumer is not to blame for the decisions of a company. If geishageek or anyone else likes their releases enough to pay their prices they are welcome to buy them.

No one person can support or ruin a company based on their purchase decisions. If enough people buy Pony Canyon's releases there is nothing we can do about it. This is not like an election where one more vote can put them over the top. With non essential good like anime, the cost is based on what the market will tolerate. It remains to be seen if the market will tolerate Pony Canyon.
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WTK



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm Reply with quote
Sound! Euphonium: Collector's Edition 1 (Blu-ray / DVD Combo) - 115 minutes - $89.98 - 6/10/16
Quote:
Contains episodes 1-5 plus a deluxe booklet, a double-sided cover, and 2 illustration cards.

Customers who pre-order Collector’s Edition 1 of Sound! Euphonium by April 30th will receive a special bonus which will announced at a later date!

Special Features: Unaired Short Episodes, Textless Opening and Ending, Promotional Video Collection, and TV Commercial Collections.

Spoken Languages: Japanese, English subtitles, Spanish subtitles.
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DuchessBianca



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:29 pm Reply with quote
So Ponycan who I'm sure has seen pretty much awful sales for every title they've released so far releases pre-order info for arguably the closest series theyhave that could be a "Big Hit" and they release it sub only and only with an overpriced CE, essentially killing MOST of the potential sales of the ONE title if anything that could print Ponycan money...... I give up Ponycan is truly clueless......

This was the last straw for me for Ponycan and I never thought I'd EVER say this but i truly wish and hope Ponycan (at least the USA couunterpart) goes bankrupt and leaves the NA industry. Its truly a freaking joke just how absolutely clueless Ponycan seems to be when it comes to the NA market. Get a freaking clue Ponycan YOU ARE NOT ANIPLEX! Aniplex has MANY hit titles, they also dub quite a sizable amount of their shows, they also DO sometimes release standard blurays for popular shows. Ponycan however? They are MORE expensive then AoA, ONLY release high priced CE sets (I hate those oversized boxes) and the one time they attempted to release a standard set they cancelled it, AND they have the nerve to hold back the release of arguably the closest to a big hit ponycan has, hype it up AND just give it the sub only treatment. I can't imagine ANY of ponycan's releases sold well at all, even Yuki Yuna (which I own) probably didn't do too well but it shows how they have no clue how to sell in the NA market, you cant release mostly EXTREMELY niche shows in overpriced sub only CE's and expect to make tons of money, people complain about AoA but at least they atually try and know how to run a company even ponycans public relations/social media presence is non existent.

Congrats Ponycan, the one series I was extremely hyped up for that ANY OTHER NA company would have dubbed and made a standard set to open the market you end up releasing the same as every only release of yours save for your first release, you end up missing the mark and what I would have bought at ANY price is now a complete pass.

By the end of this year I pretty much expect to hear about Ponycan closing shop, they truly have no clue how to run a company. You can't live off on extremely high priced sub only LE's especially when most of your catalog is extremely niche. Don't think there's ever been a company in the history of the NA market who truly was this incompetent when it came to how to do business in the NA market....

/rant
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Zalis116
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:25 am Reply with quote
DuchessBianca wrote:
So Ponycan who I'm sure has seen pretty much awful sales for every title they've released so far releases pre-order info for arguably the closest series theyhave that could be a "Big Hit" and they release it sub only and only with an overpriced CE, essentially killing MOST of the potential sales of the ONE title if anything that could print Ponycan money...... I give up Ponycan is truly clueless......
We don't know their finances or sales numbers, nor do we fully know their goals behind their release methods. They're clearly not trying to be the next mass-market/dub-almost-everything Funimation-esque company in NA. Perhaps they're merely trying to earn a little extra gravy for Pony Canyon Japan in the North American market, while keeping titles out of the hands of companies whose lower prices would create a reverse importation risk. And they may only need a few hundred (or fewer!) sales to do so, at the price points they're setting. Sound! Euphonium also seems like the kind of show that might've wound up being released sub-only by other companies anyway, so it's unlikely that PC USA single-handedly stopped it from being dubbed.
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DuchessBianca



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:13 pm Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
We don't know their finances or sales numbers, nor do we fully know their goals behind their release methods. They're clearly not trying to be the next mass-market/dub-almost-everything Funimation-esque company in NA. Perhaps they're merely trying to earn a little extra gravy for Pony Canyon Japan in the North American market, while keeping titles out of the hands of companies whose lower prices would create a reverse importation risk. And they may only need a few hundred (or fewer!) sales to do so, at the price points they're setting. Sound! Euphonium also seems like the kind of show that might've wound up being released sub-only by other companies anyway, so it's unlikely that PC USA single-handedly stopped it from being dubbed.


Oh gosh no, I certainly wasn't comparing Ponycan to companies like Sentai or Funimation haha Ponycan is trying to run their company like AoA runs theirs so thats essentially how I was comparing them. The problem is that unlike Ponycan, AoA, maybe due to longevity in the NA does a FAR better just and understands how to run properly in the R1/NA market. AoA (for all the crap they get for their prices) does offer both LE's and Standard edition for many of their titles. AoA DOES dub shows that are very popluar, SAO, KLK, Fate series etc... The monogatari series sells a ton too even though it may be sub only but Id say that is more because of how "Japanese" the series is that it would be too hard to dub, I'm sure it would easily justify a dub costs wise and I know I'd drop that $800+ or whatever AoA charges for the series if it was.
My point is IF Ponycans trying to imitate a AoA style strategy they are failing and badly because they dont seen to understand what makes AoA so successful.

I do agree with you that we don't know Ponycans exact goals but if their goals and market strategy was like you said to just to sell less then 300 copies of an anime so the Japanese companies can sleep at night without fear of reverse importation or other companies selling it cheaper then as a MASSIVE supporter of the R1/NA anime industry I feel insulted if that is all they think of this market. I never thought I could ever feel like that as Im a huge supporter of more NA companies = More licensed amines = More amines to buy in NA but Ponycan feels like they jut dont care about this market.

Last April ANN reported that Ponycan said they had plans to Dub Euphonium, Rokka, Garakawa and Lance N Masques. Sure as a dub fan I was excited. Yuki Yuna, their first release had just released and was dub/sub. After Yuki Yuna was 3 sub only releases DENKI-GAI, Cute High Earth Defense Club LOVE!, and ETOTAMA. Those 3 I agree with, from my limited knowledge they ALL seem like extremely niche shows that probably funimation would have released sub only if they licensed. After that was the Rokka fiasco. The 1st of their "We have plans to dub" series was announced as sub only. Apparently it sold EXTREMELY poorly in Japan so maybe those super low sales scared Ponycan Japan and didn't want to risk a dub, sad as a dub fan but completely understandable. Then they announce a standard release and get people excited and end of cancelling it, AoA would have NEVER done that and while we will never know the exact reasons but its justs another things to show how poorly managed Ponycan is. Garakawa was the next supposedly dubbed title but instead was an interestingly sub only release thats an "import edition" again sad but it seems to be releasing just months after the jpn release so understandable. Now finally we have Euphonium which Ponycan HELD back and released Rokka first even though Rokka aired after Euphonium, Ponycan promoted Euphonium and also promoted and ask for dub interest in it at cons and was met with praise, and the series itself from what I hear is quite popular and well received and sold well in japan and is the perfect chance to be Ponycans "Big hit" like AoA has many, but they give it the same exact treatment as its EXTREMELY niche show ETOTAMA....

This is probably getting too long so my apologies haha but point is maybe the decision to not dub it wasn't completely in Ponycans USA hands but Euphonium WAS the only big title that Ponycan had and even if their goal is to just sell 100 copies as gravy and make sure that other companies cant sell it for less, Ponycan is ensuring that they get the LEAST amount of sales as possible and as a fan of the NA industry it makes me feel insulted. AoA even if it too may be just gravy sales does their best to maximize sales for EVERY title, dubs, standard sets etc... I have no clue what happened between Ponycans dub announcements at Sakura Con 2015 and the Yuki Yuna release but its clear that they truly dont care about maximizing potential profit and just probably some greed on the Japanese side. Not too often when AoA looks like a saint haha

I will have to disagree with your your last point though. Funimation and Sentai would be gaurentee dubs, now that NISA dubs id say NISA would have dubbed it too (Would have been a nicer CE thats for sure haha) and Aniplex while no guarantee is giving a dub to YLiA and thats pretty unexpected and Im extremely thankful for them so I'd say there would be a better then not chance for a dub if AoA owned the title. But what do I know I just buy tons and tons of anime haha

Sorry for the long essay Anime hyper
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OldCharlieStoletheHandle
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:46 pm Reply with quote
I think PonyCan was the straw that broke my back to get me to finally embrace streaming anime via Crunchyroll (and FUNimation too) as CR seems to have all their releases available. I'm also getting tired of Aniplex. I certainly cannot afford to pay those kinds of prices for something I may only watch once. I also have the advantage that since I generally watch anime subbed anyway I don't care about not having an English dub (which many of PonyCan's releases don't have anyway) and thanks to my Roku I can watch on my big TV as well as on my laptop/tablet/phone.

It does seem like AoA generally gets higher quality shows than PonyCan, and I think a few of their releases have actually had somewhat reasonable pricing, but as others have stated what is important is what shows each of us wants to own; if PonyCan or AoA has the license then it's either stream it or bite the bullet.
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SpacemanHardy



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:40 am Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
Sound! Euphonium also seems like the kind of show that might've wound up being released sub-only by other companies anyway, so it's unlikely that PC USA single-handedly stopped it from being dubbed.


I disagree. Most of the KyoAni stuff that comes out over here gets dubbed. So far, Sound! Euphonium is the only one that *hasn't*.

Actually, I take that back: Love, Chunibyo, and Other Delusions season 1 was originally put out sub-only, but fan outcry was so great that Sentai went back and dubbed it anyway. So yeah, KyoAni definitely has enough fans over here to merit S!E getting a dub. PonyCan just simply doesn't care.
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