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Are 12/13 episode series just ads for the manga?


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Tempest_Wing



Joined: 07 Nov 2014
Posts: 305
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:38 am Reply with quote
Do you guys think they're just ads for the mangas or light novels they're based out of or is that a given?

[EDIT: Fixed some syntax, spelling, and structuring in your title. -TK]
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Cptn_Taylor



Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 925
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:31 am Reply with quote
I think that 12 episode selfcontained series are in the same category as those trying to write a novel as a one 20 page chapter. No matter how smart and talented the writer you simply are not going to do it.
You need a minimum number of episodes to flesh out the characters, the motivations, the story. All you get in a 12 episode self contained series is a number of infodump and bad characterizations. It's mostly wasted time.

Now half seasons (12 episodes series) that are part of a longer running series is something different. But I don't think you were refering to this type.

So yeah I think 12 episode series are first and foremost just a publicity stunt to advertise for the manga (which can be vastly superior as in Terraformars) or some other kind of merchandise.
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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 3804
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:44 am Reply with quote
Most adaptations are seen as advertisements for the manga, regardless of length. Claymore ran a full 26 episodes but was nowhere close to the end of the manga series, so Madhouse invented an "anime-original" ending.

These problems do not arise with original works for anime (Kill la KIll, Shirobako) or adaptations of completed works (Seirei no Moribito). But again the publishers on the production committees hope that seeing the anime will make you want to buy the original work or, in the case of original works, the spin-off novels and manga.
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A Mystery



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1886
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:04 am Reply with quote
@Cptn_Taylor: Now this isn't exactly on topic, but your comment about a 12 episode series being wasted time feels quite odd to me.
Movies have even less screentime. Are all movies wasted time? All those billion movies that have been made since the beginning of the 20th century? It takes skill, but it isn't undoable to have good characters and no weird infodump in a movie or short series.
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15433
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:12 am Reply with quote
Well not all are based on manga, some are based on games or light novels, and then there could be the rare case of an original anime. I can think of Girls und Panzer which had the anime come out first. There is Madoka, Free!, Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha (first season), World Conquest Zvezda Plot,

Well I am largely splitting hairs as it does seem very rare that a 12 episode series is does not have some source material, or even some above and some others that a manga may be released around the same time or soon after starting, but the anime would have been in works before it was released.

Some anime probably are, but I choose to largely believe that it is not something so shallow as an advertisement each time. As an anime fan I have been closely following Shirobako that has a pretty good insight into the anime making business, the first half was about an original anime, while the second they are working on an adaption. I don't believe the anime has really gone into making it look like the people making the anime think of it as an advertisement except for physical release.

Also like to mention the oddity of Bussou Shinki, which would have been perfect way to sell their toy line, but they were actually out of circulation when the anime aired, but you do have all the other stuff.
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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:29 am Reply with quote
DuskyPredator wrote:
I don't believe [Shirobako] has really gone into making it look like the people making the anime think of it as an advertisement except for physical release.

The studio's view probably matters the least, certainly much less than the publisher's. It's the publisher's property; the studio is just a contractor. Shirobako depicts a meeting to select seiyuu where it was abundantly clear that each of the members of the production committee was more concerned about his own parochial interest than about the production as a whole. I found that sequence especially informative.
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Cranium



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 45
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:37 pm Reply with quote
If the source material is highly episodic, it can work fine as a shorter series. For example Kino's Journey and Mushishi (not 12 episodes, but would have been still great at that length)
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Spotlesseden



Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: earth
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:41 pm Reply with quote
Tempest_Wing wrote:
Do you guys think they're just ads for the mangas or light novels they're based out of or is that a given?

[EDIT: Fixed some syntax, spelling, and structuring in your title. -TK]


yes, these series are just advertisement for Light novels or manga. Some of the anime sells like 500 copies of bluray/dvd. They still put them out. Most of the time, they don't care to have ending either because they wanted you to buy the novel or manga.

Companies have to pay the TV stations to put their anime on TV in most cases. yes, not the other way round like US.
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CoreSignal



Joined: 04 Sep 2014
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Location: California, USA
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:03 pm Reply with quote
I think it depends on both the source material, or if it's original, the type of show. As Cranium mentioned, episodic stuff usually works well. Adaptations of slice-of-life manga generally work well in a 12-13 episode format. Stuff like Genshiken or even Girls und Panzer, the kind of stories that don't really have a definitive end. On the other hand, I don't think its possible to do a grand fantasy story, or an epic mecha story in 12-13 episodes. Or at least a good one.
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Touma



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: Colorado, USA
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:24 pm Reply with quote
I think that most, possibly all, anime that is adapted from a current manga is intended as a promotion for the manga.
But in many cases I think that it is not fair to call it just an ad. The anime can be an advertisement and still be very entertaining itself.

I have never been disappointed in an anime because I felt like I was being cheated if I did not also read the manga.
But I must admit that I have not seen anything that was made in the last few years, so my opinion might change if I start to get caught up with what is happening now.

But in any case I definitely disagree that 12 episodes are not enough to tell a good story.
To use the literary analogy, there are thousands of excellent short stories in existence.
Size isn't everything.
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Kruszer



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 7981
Location: Minnesota, USA
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:07 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, pretty much. Unless they're not based on one or the manga is less than 6 volumes in which case the whole thing could be adapted into a 1 season show.

There are plenty of one season shows that are great and tell a complete story though.
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nobahn
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:13 pm Reply with quote
^
Indeed, Haibane Renmei is an excellent example of a damned good series. It was inspired by (i.e., not directly based upon) a novel. By any reasonable standard it is regarded as popular.
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Kruszer



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 7981
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:47 pm Reply with quote
nbahn wrote:
^
Indeed, Haibane Renmei is an excellent example of a damned good series. It was inspired by (i.e., not directly based upon) a novel. By any reasonable standard it is regarded as popular.


Completely agree, and I could name dozens of other examples of 12-13 episode series I felt were wholly satisfying. I don't really want to derail the thread though, so I'll refrain...
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nobahn
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:50 pm Reply with quote
As a moderator, I hereby give you permission to do just that! Anime catgrin
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st_owly



Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 5234
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:51 pm Reply with quote
I would say most anime adaptions are ads for their source material. That does not however preclude them being excellent. Some of my favourite series are only 12-12 episodes. Bunny Drop, Victorian Romance Emma and Natsume Yuujinchou spring to mind (although admittedly there's now 4 13 episode seasons of Natsume). I have noticed 12 episode series becoming more common over the last few years though; when I first started watching anime in 2004 ish, most manga (light novels also didn't tend to get adapted very much then) which received an anime got a 26 episode adaption. Now, 12 or 13 episodes seems to be the norm unless it's a Jump series. I'm not sure whether that's because companies don't want to take a risk with longer running anime or because they want to adapt more properties or a combination of both, or something else entirely. Split cour also seems to have become more common too, which isn't a bad thing either.
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