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The Mike Toole Show - What's Up, Tiger Mask?


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Via_01



Joined: 24 Aug 2014
Posts: 550
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:01 pm Reply with quote
Kinnikuman was dubbed to latinoamerican Spanish, and I remember having a lot of fun with it when I was a kid. Of course, I also remember being quite disappointed with the sequel... It just wasn’t half as good as the original.
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FireballDragon



Joined: 17 Nov 2014
Posts: 443
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:44 pm Reply with quote
I actually found some Kinnikuman Nisei videos on Veoh or whatever...

Way better than the 4Kids version, but that's a given.
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jr240483



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 3469
Location: New York City,New York,USA
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:20 pm Reply with quote
FireballDragon wrote:
I actually found some Kinnikuman Nisei videos on Veoh or whatever...

Way better than the 4Kids version, but that's a given.


the understatement of the century.any dub even the old DIC and Harmony Gold dub are a hell of a lot better than some of the 4kids monstrosities.

Quote:
I never got as much exposure to Kinnikuman as I wanted to, but the show's eventual next-gen spinoff, Kinnikuman II, got released here under the title Ultimate Muscle. Anyone remember watching it on Saturday mornings? It was part of the Fox Box, 4kids’ Entertainment's bold attempt to claim some Saturday Morning Cartoon mindshare during a time when the big networks were starting to bail on the concept. Rag on 4kids for their weird localization choices all you want, but they had big plans for Ultimate Muscle, and in a couple of ways, they actually paid off.


depends on what's successful means. if it was to show another cartoon show for little boys especially those that are wrestling fans, then yea it worked for a little while.

however it failed badly to impress the otaku community like with all of the other anime series (excluding Pokemon ). and speaking of which, while those toys did sell, unfortunately it was done in the same era where pokemon , DBZ and gundam was selling their products like hot cakes & is what the majority of boys in the US wanted.especially DBZ so that front of ultimate muscle toys and games ended before it got a chance to start.

also there is a good reason why this anime series along with some of the others (F - Zero , Toyko Mew Mew ) which had brief success but bombed nevertheless haven't been re licensed in the US. cause those abominations that 4kids did made those licensed too toxic for any anime company to take a gamble on them.
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Lord Geo



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 1403
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:31 pm Reply with quote
jr0904 wrote:
depends on what's successful means. if it was to show another cartoon show for little boys especially those that are wrestling fans, then yea it worked for a little while.

however it failed badly to impress the otaku community like with all of the other anime series (excluding Pokemon).


Oh, don't tell me you seriously went that direction. Look, I'll agree that 4Kids failed on a lot of things, but Ultimate Muscle was one of their actually good products. As Mike mentioned, it was so successful that it got more episodes made distinctly for us; name a show for "the otaku community" that has done that. You can't go saying that it "depends on what's successful means", because you can't seriously name a show that did what Ultimate Muscle did yet fulfills your second paragraph. The closest one would be The Big O, yet that was also appealing to the mainstream because of it's visual similarities to Batman: The Animated Series. Even then, Big O only got half as many more episodes made as UM in the end. In fact, I think only Voltron beats out UM in total number of new episodes made specifically for international audiences.

Talk about grasping at straws...
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FireballDragon



Joined: 17 Nov 2014
Posts: 443
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:04 pm Reply with quote
Lord Geo wrote:
jr0904 wrote:
depends on what's successful means. if it was to show another cartoon show for little boys especially those that are wrestling fans, then yea it worked for a little while.

however it failed badly to impress the otaku community like with all of the other anime series (excluding Pokemon).


Oh, don't tell me you seriously went that direction. Look, I'll agree that 4Kids failed on a lot of things, but Ultimate Muscle was one of their actually good products. As Mike mentioned, it was so successful that it got more episodes made distinctly for us; name a show for "the otaku community" that has done that. You can't go saying that it "depends on what's successful means", because you can't seriously name a show that did what Ultimate Muscle did yet fulfills your second paragraph. The closest one would be The Big O, yet that was also appealing to the mainstream because of it's visual similarities to Batman: The Animated Series. Even then, Big O only got half as many more episodes made as UM in the end. In fact, I think only Voltron beats out UM in total number of new episodes made specifically for international audiences.

Talk about grasping at straws...


UM was good only by 4Kids standards. In comparison to the original, Kinnikuman Nisei still takes the cake... Or... Er... Galbi-don?

And don't say "otaku." That's actually considered offensive in Japan. Even though we're not in Japan, you should still try to be courteous.
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gedata



Joined: 04 May 2013
Posts: 414
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:21 pm Reply with quote
Kinda disappointed with how Kinnikuman II changed the end of the Choujin Olympics to allow the show to stop there. Would've loved to see the final arc of the manga animated. That said the show was still fun back in the day. It's got the only 4Kids dub that I still kinda like.
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Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:26 pm Reply with quote
My fondest memory of Ultimate Muscle is still X-Play's review of it. The name "Dik Dik Van Dik" became something of a running joke on that show for obvious reasons.

As for me, I like wrestling enough, hell Royal Rumble is on tonight. I always wanted to see a properly dubbed Tiger Mask II. Would have been way cooler than the Hulk Hogan cartoon.
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Lord Geo



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 1403
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:37 pm Reply with quote
Beatdigga wrote:
My fondest memory of Ultimate Muscle is still X-Play's review of it. The name "Dik Dik Van Dik" became something of a running joke on that show for obvious reasons.


That, much like the joke Mike referenced, is why I think Ultimate Muscle is 4Kids' best dub & the one that would likely still hold up. For what seems like the only time in that company's history, 4Kids made a dub that appealed to both children & older audiences. The silliness inherent in the show appealed to kids, the action appealed to both, & older fans would be able to understand more of the humor because of the various innuendo strewn about. For example, Gazelleman became Dik Dik Van Dik not just for a Dick Van Dyke joke, but also the reference to a dik-dik (which is similar to a gazelle) as well as the blatantly obvious dirty humor joke. Plus, let's face it, the altered name wouldn't be too out of place in the Japanese version, either.
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IKKIsama



Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 81
Location: France
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:07 am Reply with quote
Kinnikuman aired in France until halfway through the censors decided against Brocken Jr. sporting swastikas being one of the good guys and banned the show altogether.
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GVman



Joined: 14 Jul 2010
Posts: 700
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:51 pm Reply with quote
Kinnikuman the anime isn't exactly my favorite incarnation of the series. It's fun, but the manga beats it by a mile. I do love to throw on random episodes of the anime when I need something to watch.

Funnily enough, a lot of US fans of the OG Kinnikuman prefer Ultimate Muscle to the Nisei anime or even the manga because it feel more like the original

Tiger Mask is one of those things that desperately needs English subs. If a kickstarter or something akin to that appears, you can guarantee that I'll throw my money at it faster than most can blink.
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John Thacker



Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 536
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:06 am Reply with quote
FireballDragon wrote:
And don't say "otaku." That's actually considered offensive in Japan. Even though we're not in Japan, you should still try to be courteous.


Well, it can be be considered pejorative (and certainly used in that sense by an out-group member), although also is increasingly used in a positive sense, both by other people and as a self-descriptor, very similar to "geek" or "nerd." See here for example:
Quote:
「ダサい」「キモい」「暗い」など、ネガティブなイメージを持たれることが多かったオタクという言葉が、最近ではポジティブな意味でも使われることが多くなりました。オタクを自称する人も増え、ジャンルも広がっています。


By this point it also tends to be used not just as denoting a particular subculture, but also as a suffix describing any kind of passion, including things like an interest in travel (旅行オタク). Again, that's like "geek" or "nerd," though just as with those words some people could take care in using them.
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CatSword



Joined: 01 Jul 2014
Posts: 637
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:38 am Reply with quote
IKKIsama wrote:
Kinnikuman aired in France until halfway through the censors decided against Brocken Jr. sporting swastikas being one of the good guys and banned the show altogether.


That seems a bit ridiculous considering France lets five year olds in without adult supervision to see Gone Girl, The Virgin Suicides, 12 Years a Slave, Magic Mike, Eyes Wide Shut, etc. But a swastika on a good guy, no, that's going to tear down the entire nation.
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jymmy



Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Posts: 1220
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:21 pm Reply with quote
I'm watching Tiger Mask at the moment. The artistry is really rough but also really draws you in.
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DavidShallcross



Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 1008
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:02 pm Reply with quote
The Mike Toole Show wrote:
Several shows also use elements and scenarios from girls’ pro wrestling, which is pretty much an entirely distinct, separate phenomenon from the puroresu that I've been talking about. Seriously, it's different enough that it kind of requires its own separate piece.


So you'll get into the origins of the Dirty Pair then?
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belvadeer



Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 3834
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:37 pm Reply with quote
I'm a big fan of Tiger Mask. I have both soundtracks to his Fever pachinko game and I read the scanlated manga because let's face it: no company is going to officially translate an old manga about wrestling here. Though I never did manage to acquire any of his truly expensive but beautifully crafted figures. It's really a shame nothing of him ever came to the U.S. in any way.

As Beatdigga has stated, I would love to see the anime dubbed in English with an all-star cast. Heck, they could even make a new anime with the HD quality of the pachinko games and dub it. I'd totally support that.


Last edited by belvadeer on Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:34 am; edited 2 times in total
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